[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Kelimbror]

The moment I realized that there was no way to dodge out of autoattacks was probably one of my biggest disappointments during beta.

Auto attacks are completely against the design of the game. I feel like they just couldn't figure out how to make a trinity with real action combat, so they backed off from it. Essentially if you view it as traditional hotkey combat with aiming, it 'feels' better in practice. Dodge is nothing different than a Monk's roll which is used to accomplish the same purpose in WoW. Here they just give it to everyone. *shrug* Think of it less like a dodge and more of a movement ability on cool down.

[Araxie]

Teaser for the new resource bars for anyone that missed it -

[Tekkommo]

Think of it less like a dodge and more of a movement ability on cool down.

This is exactly the answer I was looking for.

[Deleted]

Auto attacks are completely against the design of the game. I feel like they just couldn't figure out how to make a trinity with real action combat, so they backed off from it. Essentially if you view it as traditional hotkey combat with aiming, it 'feels' better in practice. Dodge is nothing different than a Monk's roll which is used to accomplish the same purpose in WoW. Here they just give it to everyone. *shrug* Think of it less like a dodge and more of a movement ability on cool down.

You are spot on with this description. The combat in Wildstar IMO isn't bad by any means and I enjoyed that part of the game overall, but I guess those damn devspeak videos made me expect too much.

[Kelimbror]

This is exactly the answer I was looking for.

Yeah I agree it's named incorrectly, but it's the easiest concept for players to understand. I think it would have been cooler to have each class have their own form of dodge, like Tera, but each game does their own thing. They could have even provided one slot in the LAS to choose what dodge-type ability you had in order to customize your gameplay more. Maybe that's something they'll consider in the future. Who knows?

You are spot on with this description. The combat in Wildstar IMO isn't bad by any means and I enjoyed that part of the game overall, but I guess those damn devspeak videos made me expect too much.

Yeah I thought crazy action combat from the gates, but knew better from being in beta from pretty early on. Deadlock extended makes it a million times better if that's the gameplay you want, but you just have to accept that you are going to get hit and the 'action' elements are more centered around your offensive capabilities. Now that's not to say that the 'dodge' won't come in handy to actually avoid damage in pve and more importantly PvP, but it's not what you may be used to in other games. I like the combat as well, but it is a weird hybrid that you have to adjust to.

[Acidbaron]

Don't let the first 17 levels fool you in terms of combat and responsiveness required to beat mobs

I came in around december thinking that in the first levels and was later on woken up, for me personally around whitevale it really started picking up.

[Jibjub]

This is exactly the answer I was looking for.

I'm sorry but your logic makes no sense. The dodge ability is exactly what its name applies ... it allows you to dodge -- you move faster in a desired direction in the attempt to avoid damage. Just because you sometimes fail (and in that case we would call it a "failed attempt at dodging") doesn't mean the ability should be renamed. A punch that misses is still every bit of a punch; the same goes for a dodge that still resulted in taking damage. HOWEVER, if there are terrible latency issues then we can start talking problems ... but it isn't with the semantics of the ability name.

Also: in my opinion, the GW2 dodge mechanic was awful. If anything THAT should have been renamed to "invulnerable with roll graphic" ... though, admittedly, it isn't the catchiest name for an ability :P

[Nirawen]

Also: in my opinion, the GW2 dodge mechanic was awful. If anything THAT should have been renamed to "invulnerable with roll graphic" ... though, admittedly, it isn't the catchiest name for an ability :P

What about 'Sportsmanship invoker', hard to justify hitting someone when their rolling around with their feet above their head.

[Edge-]

Also: in my opinion, the GW2 dodge mechanic was awful. If anything THAT should have been renamed to "invulnerable with roll graphic" ... though, admittedly, it isn't the catchiest name for an ability :P

Dodge mechanics are generally supposed to provide invulnerability frames in them if they're limited (as they are in GW2) and are intended to help you avoid certain normally unavoidable attacks (such as a homing projectile or a mass AoE you can't get out of).

[DeadmanWalking]

I seem to remember rolling in wildstar and not getting out of the aoe and getting an 'invulnerable' message.

[Kelimbror]

I seem to remember rolling in wildstar and not getting out of the aoe and getting an 'invulnerable' message.

Wishful thinking subconscious implanting false images in your eyeballs. No invuln in Wildstar. If you lag and are in the telegraph you will get hit by damage even if you are visually out of the telegraph. Similarly white attacks will hit you even if you are currently out of ranged because you didn't push the button 'fast enough'. It's a very sloppy system especially when latency is a possibility.

[Puupi]

What about 'Sportsmanship invoker', hard to justify hitting someone when their rolling around with their feet above their head.

Try dodging a bullet. Really.

It's a very sloppy system especially when latency is a possibility.

Latency always makes issues in MMO's. What difference does it make are you sidestepping or dodging away from the shit and got hit by it because of latency? Latency is there, sometimes it fucks you up, usually it doesn't.

[Kelimbror]

Try dodging a bullet. Really.

It happens all the time.

What difference does it make are you sidestepping or dodging away from the shit and got hit by it because of latency?

....I should just post the video for David after going to the dentist in response to this question. Because all the responses he gives are exactly what reading this makes me think. Since I don't want to post the video and get a meme infraction, I'll just say it very obviously makes a clear difference. It's a difference of the game working properly within the design it creates and the game not working properly. If you get hit by attacks when you are out of range, including white attacks and telegraphed attacks, but you moved out of the way on your screen...there's a large problem. The communication between the game and player has ceased to function at that point. It doesn't even need to be latency...sometimes this just happens because of the combat timings. Damage is clearly calculated before movement checks or it would only be possible in extreme latency.

[Edge-]

Latency always makes issues in MMO's. What difference does it make are you sidestepping or dodging away from the shit and got hit by it because of latency? Latency is there, sometimes it fucks you up, usually it doesn't.

Dodge rolls have animation times in games like Tera, GW2, and Vindictus. Generally around .5 seconds, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. Invulnerability frames exist for dodge in each of these games, as dodge either has a cooldown, or has a very finite resource which makes in impossible to spam. The invulnerability frames help account for latency to a certain extent with upwards of 3-400 ping, which is generally considered pretty high for a MMO, especially an action MMO.

So while you can sidestep many attacks in these games, if you're doing so with any latency, there's a good chance you'll eat the attack. The dodge gives you the ability to avoid it even if you do have some lag due to the very very temporary invulnerability it grants.

[DeadmanWalking]

Latency + 40 players + lots of red templates to compensate for 40 players + 40 attack effects at once + a good deal of people with average or below average computers = Death of 40 man raiding.

[Deleted]

Is there a beta weekend this week? 28.3 till ??

[Nirawen]

Latency + 40 players + lots of red templates to compensate for 40 players + 40 attack effects at once + a good deal of people with average or below average computers = Death of 40 man raiding.

Couldn't you say the same about WoW's 40man raids? Less attack indicators but just as many actual attacks.

[Kelimbror]

Couldn't you say the same about WoW's 40man raids? Less attack indicators but just as many actual attacks.

...Oh you mean those 40 man raids that died out 7 years ago? Those ones?

[Arlee]

Couldn't you say the same about WoW's 40man raids? Less attack indicators but just as many actual attacks.

No, there was far less going on at any one time in the 40 man raids than there are in current 25 man raids. Comparatively raids now are much faster (in terms of how quickly boss mechanics happen) and are more varied.

[Nirawen]

...Oh you mean those 40 man raids that died out 7 years ago? Those ones?

They didn't die out due to latency so I don't see your point.

No, there was far less going on at any one time in the 40 man raids than there are in current 25 man raids. Comparatively raids now are much faster (in terms of how quickly boss mechanics happen) and are more varied.

There were a few 40man encounters that rivaled most of the 25man raids since and the infrastructure behind the games have advanced just as much as the amount of content within each encounter.