Why do people defend Cata?

[Kynario]

I love Cataclysm, despite the people complaining. I do think they put too much work into 1-60, and that hindered most of the end-game content - WoTLK and TBC concentrated mostly on the end-game that is why they had much more to offer, but I still have no big problem with Cataclysm. I appreciate the game, and Blizzards effort to improve it. And since I don't play it allot, I find it nice to relax and to balance everything. Overall it wasn't the most fun I've had, but I'm not complaining about it - I think that patch 4.3 is going to be really good, and that Blizzard are doing a splendid job.

[tacoloco]

Because fanboys are fanboys. It bothers them to their core that anybody might actually enjoy the game in its current state less than they do, as if it devalues their connection to the game and their loyalty to Blizzard. It is what it is. Some people realize it's possible for a game to have faults, others don't.

People who defend Cata and Blizzard aren't robots who only say good things or expect others to only say good things. Most people, I think, are like me. I like the game and still play because it's fun. At the same time, I recognize that there are things I don't like about WoW, but those things aren't enough for me to stop playing. We're perfectly capable of being critical of Blizzard and frequently express those criticisms.

The reason some people appear to be very vocal and strong willed supporters of Blizzard is because there is an overwhelming tide of vocal and opinionated people who seemingly hate everything Blizzard does or doesn't do. These people complain about everything. Some of them don't even play the game anymore and STILL come here to pick at shit.

So what people see around here are people bellowing about how Blizzard/Cata sucks, "wow is dying" or whatever and an equally forceful reaction from people who still enjoy the game.

I welcome reasonable discussions about how WoW can be improved or how it may not be as good as previous expansions or whatever. Unfortunately, good threads are ruined by assholes who show up and start in on the usual bullshit.

Make no mistake. People who support Blizzard are not, by default, fanboys.
---

OP, nice thread title, but most people can figure out that it's just another version of "Blizzard/Cata sucks" with an OP that is no different that the dozens of similar threads and just as lame.

[Lorkin]

The main reason people are still playing this game. There's nothing else better out there! (yet)

I thought WotLK was WoW finally going in the direction I personally liked. Some called it easy, some said it was faceroll. But I can guarantee you that there were tons of happy people and the cities never seemed more alive. People were always LFM for ICC and other raids, and everything was very PuG friendly.

Now what do you have, ghostcrawler's "vision" for WoW, cater to the hardcore and devoted. His idea was to make everything harder for the real gamers, but he failed to realize that the majority of the playerbase isn't hardcore, it's the casual. Would be nice if the game itself wasn't based on a good business model, but unfortunately like all things in this world, money speaks. When you lose tons and tons of subscribers because they all either can't raid the current content or just simply run out of stuff to do when they log in, you got a whole lot of fail there.

You are NOW starting to see the reverting of ghostcrawler's "vision" back to pre WotLK days. When Cata released we had the following:

1) Nerf or removal of AoE damage
2) Nerfed damage all around
3) Nerf Tank threat
4) Make everything harder
5) Nerf Healing

Cata now has the following reversals of policy:
1) AoE back and bumped back up
2) Damage bumped back up per class
3) Recently tank threat got a bump back to normal
4) Everything save the current tier nerfed by 20% or more

Just watch in a month or so healing will get back to WotLK days.

I can imagine the board meeting back when they were developing Cata. Ghostcrawler pitching that Cata has to be "harder" and more of a timesink so people feel accomplished to down the really tough raids. Months later people complaining that stuff is too hard and people leaving. And eventually the blizzard board smacking him down saying it was a horrible idea.

Edit: Forgot to add this tidbit. Once SWotR, SC2 expansion, and Diablo 3 comes out (along with other games like BF3, etc) WoW subs will take another nosedive. Hopefully it will be enough to consolidate servers and just plain move onto Titan. Titan seems to be where the "good" developers have gone. Really FL's ISN'T Molten Core 2.0? Talk about lazy.

[esmifra]

Because people refuse to let their 8 year old game die.


When the only reason most people are playing is because "I play for my friends", you know the game has gone to shit.

When people trash talk a game and regardless lurk forums associated with said game you know the game is still alive and kicking.

[staticflare]

The Deathwing raid will be released about a year after Cata came out. ICC was released about a year after Wrath came out. The Black Temple was released four months after BC came out.

If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, your opinion doesn't count.

Maybe you should get a time machine and go back in fucking time, Wotlk released Ulduar which was the greatest raid in WoW, and explained plenty of Lore, They also had Ony, Ruby, Naxx, TOC, Obsidian, and ICC. Wotlk raids > Caty. BC Also had MUCH more raids than cataclysm with much more content.

Caty is just some half assed joke that blizzard made to take as much Cush from WoW fanboys as they possibly can. When you break your Fanboyism Voodoo you will wake the fuck up and realize this before spending anymore money on this P.O.S game.

[Doombringer]

I like how the white knights rush in and say "You didn't read the WowWiki article on Al'akir so it's your fault you're not involved in the story!!"

Give me a break. Lore nerds like you are the worst.

Players should be presented with enough information in the game to form a relationship with the characters (enemies or heroes). Cata fell flat on its face in this department. They could have done much, much, MUCH more for Al'akir, Cho'gall, Deathwing, etc... but they did not. Most of Cho'gall's story is in the RTS games or the Comic Book, Al'Akir is merely a figurehead, and most of Deathwing's badness is done in Cataclysm's opening cinematic. Poor storytelling all around. They relied far too much on established history to back these characters and gave us very little insight into it, aside from our having to do "research" on the interweb WoW encyclopedias.

There's actually more player-involvement with the goddamn Vashj'ir Battlemaiden and her past than there is with Deathwing. That is bad.

Compare to the Lich King, who at least got into what you were doing, or you saw him working his wiles and had to deal with the fallout (Drakuru), or you were involved in his backstory (Icecrown quests). Yes, he had tons of story in the RTS games, but... hey, wow, they also put in a Caverns of Time instance to show you Arthas' first brush with the Scourge and how he became bent on destroying them! Backstory. Wow. What a concept.

[staticflare]

The main reason people are still playing this game. There's nothing else better out there! (yet)

I thought WotLK was WoW finally going in the direction I personally liked. Some called it easy, some said it was faceroll. But I can guarantee you that there were tons of happy people and the cities never seemed more alive. People were always LFM for ICC and other raids, and everything was very PuG friendly.

Now what do you have, ghostcrawler's "vision" for WoW, cater to the hardcore and devoted. His idea was to make everything harder for the real gamers, but he failed to realize that the majority of the playerbase isn't hardcore, it's the casual. Would be nice if the game itself wasn't based on a good business model, but unfortunately like all things in this world, money speaks. When you lose tons and tons of subscribers because they all either can't raid the current content or just simply run out of stuff to do when they log in, you got a whole lot of fail there.

You are NOW starting to see the reverting of ghostcrawler's "vision" back to pre WotLK days. When Cata released we had the following:

1) Nerf or removal of AoE damage
2) Nerfed damage all around
3) Nerf Tank threat
4) Nerf Healing

Cata now has the following reversals of policy:
1) AoE back and bumped back up
2) Damage bumped back up per class
3) Recently tank threat got a bump back to normal

Just watch in a month or so healing will get back to WotLK days.

I can imagine the board meeting back when they were developing Cata. Ghostcrawler pitching that Cata has to be "harder" and more of a timesink so people feel accomplished to down the really tough raids. Months later people complaining that stuff is too hard and people leaving. And eventually the blizzard board smacking him down saying it was a horrible idea.

Edit: Forgot to add this tidbit. Once SWotR, SC2 expansion, and Diablo 3 comes out (along with other games like BF3, etc) WoW subs will take another nosedive. Hopefully it will be enough to consolidate servers and just plain move onto Titan. Titan seems to be where the "good" developers have gone. Really FL's ISN'T Molten Core 2.0? Talk about lazy.

Good point.

[Thage]

Maybe you should get a time machine and go back in fucking time, Wotlk released Ulduar which was the greatest raid in WoW, and explained plenty of Lore, They also had Ony, Ruby, Naxx, TOC, Obsidian, and ICC. Wotlk raids > Caty. BC Also had MUCH more raids than cataclysm with much more content.

Caty is just some half assed joke that blizzard made to take as much Cush from WoW fanboys as they possibly can. When you break your Fanboyism Voodoo you will wake the fuck up and realize this before spending anymore money on this P.O.S game.

Oh god, someone has a different opinion from you! Man the lifeboats!

Seriously, mate. We get that you dislike the game. Awesome, more power to you, I genuinely hope you find another game you enjoy as much as you dislike this one. But don't be an ass about it and insult people who still like this game and talk down to them as though you are in some state of Nirvana. That does nothing for your argument, only hurts it.

[Deleted]

I love Cata. Now move on, nothing to see here.

[Tyranny]

Maybe you should get a time machine and go back in fucking time, Wotlk released Ulduar which was the greatest raid in WoW, and explained plenty of Lore, They also had Ony, Ruby, Naxx, TOC, Obsidian, and ICC. Wotlk raids > Caty. BC Also had MUCH more raids than cataclysm with much more content.

Caty is just some half assed joke that blizzard made to take as much Cush from WoW fanboys as they possibly can. When you break your Fanboyism Voodoo you will wake the fuck up and realize this before spending anymore money on this P.O.S game.

You're the one sitting here on a World of Warcraft Official forum complaining, looks like you've failed sir. And cussing makes you cool am i right? Or, it makes you seem less articulate and more retarded.

[DechCJC]

Maybe you should get a time machine and go back in fucking time, Wotlk released Ulduar which was the greatest raid in WoW, and explained plenty of Lore, They also had Ony, Ruby, Naxx, TOC, Obsidian, and ICC. Wotlk raids > Caty. BC Also had MUCH more raids than cataclysm with much more content.

Caty is just some half assed joke that blizzard made to take as much Cush from WoW fanboys as they possibly can. When you break your Fanboyism Voodoo you will wake the fuck up and realize this before spending anymore money on this P.O.S game.

You know, when an expansion isn't up to your standards; it doesn't mean Blizzard doesn't put any effort into it, it means you don't like it. I'm not a fan-boy, I enjoy Cataclysm; and i'm sick of people trying to explain to me why it's so horrible.

[ZenX]

1. Deathwing didn't retreat to some "unknown" lair.. he is flying around killing people every day....

2. Just because Deathwing didn't show up in every 3 quest... look at the world around you? It's in ruins because of him? How much more build up do you want? Every time I enter Orgrimmar I am reminded of Deathwing's destruction.

3. Ala who? This entire expansion is based on the elemental lords. Al'akir is built up in some quests when you enter Uldum.

4. Ragnaros was never defeated, and everyone knew that even in vanilla... everyone knew that one day Rag would make a return, we were waiting for when, and firelands was the perfect time.

5. The return of Nefarian and Onyxia made sense, since we were dealing with Deathwing and Sinestra.... if you had the ability to bring your children back from the dead during a mass invasion (especially knowing these 2 children are 2 of the most destructive dragons in history), you would do the same. It sucks that we killed Onyxia like 17 times to date, but ya, it made sense in this expansion.

1- I have no problem with this
2- The build up is nice, though it was Cho'gal who attacked Orgrimmar not Deathwing. In addition, most of the characters in cataclysm are new to most of the people who are not lore-whores, and Blizzard pretty much slacked in their introduction, for people ranting Firelands being a recycle are people who only know him as what they killed in MC.
3- All elemental planes were to be quest zones in cataclysm when it was announced back in 2009, what we have is Deepholm(Hands down its awesome) and Molten Front, Sulfuron Keep and Throne of the Four Winds were going to be raids whereas Firelands and Skywall were going to be quest zones, whereas they made Firelands a raid and Skywall into two-instances, namely Vortex Pinnacle and Throne of Four Winds. And this is the problem such a major character got less attention that Harrison Jones did.

4- This I aggree, for some additional comments see 2 and 3

5- BWD is a content that made sense for first tier, and it tied very well with Deathwing's return. Anyone seeing BWD and Firelands as rehashed content and insist on their arguement after they're being told why they're not are downright retarded and should be better of in an institution.


Cataclysm was not bad, however, me and other reasonable people I know who got upset with this is the way Blizzard handled the expansion, CoT: WotA patch along with its raid and quests were supposed to be the enlightening the truth behind Deathwing that was only available to lore-whores(The kind of person who devours every source of lore they can find) like us, now its a patch, and seeing how Neptulon was handled and them announcing Abyssal Maw idea is scrapped, I got furious and my patience will wear off if they don't go ahead and announce they are saving it with the expansion focusing around Azshara and her naga.

By the way since no one is reading it, I'll post my thread regarding Cataclysm here:
"Quest Zones:
Vashj'ir and Abyssal Maw: 80-82, amount of total experience needed is changed to 5M in total
Hyjal and Firelands: 80-82, amount of total experience needed is changed to 5M in total
Deepholm: 82~, amount of experience needed is changed to 7M in total, need to move onto next batch of zones to level up
Uldum and Skywall:82~-84, amount of total experience needed is changed to 9M in total
Twilight Highlands: 84-85, amount of total experience needed is changed to 11M in total

(Assuming the same release of the expansion)
4.0: Blackwing Descent with 9 bosses (December)
4.1: ZA/ZG dungeons(February)
4.2: Firelands and Throne of the Four Winds(April)
4.3: Abyssal Maw dungeon(July)
4.4: Caverns of Time: War of the Ancients raids, CoT: Demon Soul and CoT: Shattering(October)
4.5: Rehashed AQ20(December)
4.6: Deathwing's Lair and Bastion of Twilight(February)

Without including all the planes and telling of their respective stories there, elemental lords are just "big guys", Ragnaros is just "Boss we killed in MC", and Deathwing is "Big mad dragon", what Cataclysm lacked was the feel to it, Blizzard literally rushed the expansion to compete with Rift and screwed up the playerbase by not implementing this content properly.

War of the Ancients patch would have focused on telling who Deathwing really is and such, him being more than a mad dragon or a pawn of Old Gods.

Hope they don't screw 4.3 up aswell, because then people will not only quit WoW, but will quit playing Blizzard's games, the reason WoW was a success was due to all the players that had played either of Diablo, SC and WC3 being huge successes, and people trying WoW for it being the same company's game. "

[Propane]

I wonder what happened to the memory of some posters who are satisfied with cata.

1. Cata was rushed. Remember patch 4.01? No, it was not Cata but it set the stage for Cata. 4.01 was essentially a alpha/beta test unleashed on Blizzard's customers. Remember proto drakes not flapping, dying and resurrecting with 1 health at the spirit healer, being transported to random locations, sound not matching to action, weird sounds, lockups, many game breaking bugs etc. 4.01 was a massive bug infested junk. I am honestly surprised 900k did not quit right then and there. 4.03 did fix those bugs but they should have never rushed it out of ptr onto main playing population prematurely which they did. You know Dec 7 launch date for Cata had everything to do with Christmas shopping. The lure and anticipation of Cata is what kept people I guess.

2. I won't hold overcrowing at launch against Blizzard that is to be expected. However, Cataclysm started off on the wrong foot. Remember needing to get to the dungeon to be able to queue for it in dungeon finder? Bad idea, subsequently rolled back. Remember archeology sites in Vashjir? Bad idea, rolled back. Remember inscription requiring limited quantitty reagents sold only at one vendor with a respawn time of several hours? Bad idea, rolled back.(I think leatherworking may have had a similar problem). Cataclysm presented individuals with an annoying attitude. It started treating players like newbs regardless of their experience. The idea of "harder dungeons" was a miserable failure for the simple reason that dungeons have no business being quasi raids when you are dealing with pugs. Take beauty from Blackrock caverns on heroic. Originally it had 3 dogs that had to be cced. If your random group did not have the proper amount of CCs guess what? SOL. That is bad design. Similar argument holds for shadowfang keep first boss which used to have 2 heals that had to be interrupted. Not enough interrupts in group? SOL. The poor design of dungeons subsequently led to x3 luck of the draw, although Blizzard continued its mistakes with ZA/ZG. Jindo with 3 melee is a problem. In Wrath, a random heroic gave you emblems of frost regardless of whether it was HOR heroic or Utgarde Pinnacle heroic while ZA/ZG heroic give twice the valor of other heroics. The end result is that people see the same 2 dungeons for months to get valor capped. Bad design.

3. Bad protaganist. When deathwing dies, it is not gonna be "too soon" it is gonna be "we hardly knew ye" Deathwing is a moronic villain. He torched Stormwind and the world and retreated to "an undisclosed location". As his former mate and key underlings are systematically slaughtered he is nowhere to be seen. At least with Lich King it was later revealed that he planned to get the very best "heroes" killed and raised as scourge so it did not bother him that his underlings fell. Lich King had an overarching presence in just about every quest/dungeon and zone. Deathwing does not.

4 Recycling of content/uninspiring raids. BWD is BWL/Onyxia's Lair was only a setback Chogall showed his ugly head and Al'Akir was Ala who? Firelands was a shameless recylcing of Ragnaros. So we gonna get to deathwing raid with no character development for deathwing whatsoever. This expansion should have been called, World of Warcraft : The Greatness of Thrall instead of Cataclysm. I don't see the epicness of flying on his back, he is not aeonaxx after all. As a side note, firehawks are recycled proto drakes, fire raven lord is lame and fire mount u get from molten front is not terribly original either.

To summarize, I don't see the epicness of this expansion, it is shallow in lore, with bad villain development, uninspiring raids, and bad dungeon design. Wrath had some epic raids not just epic boss encounters. Regardless of how hard Ragnaros on heroic is, Firelands as a Raid does not hold candle to ICC. If an expansion lasts shorter than wrath and I paid the same or greater money, I get screwed.

P.S Blizzard is getting desperate. Remember it has to be accountable to shareholders and in the "what have you done for me lately" people will not be pleased if WoW continues to bleed customers. Transmogrification/4.3 being the largest patch ever is a stunt to preempt SWTOR.

1. Every expansion was preceded by a patch which put it into place. This is no different than BC or WoTLK, so why single out Cata? I hardly think mount animations are game breaking. This is hardly something that makes Cata terrible.

2. Changing some things happens all the time. Some of these were bad ideas which were rolled back, and other nerfs to 5 mans were too much considering people quickly outgear those 5mans. The pre-nerf versions of those encounters would be fine now, instead of the complete facerolls they are now.

3. We haven't seen the Deathwing content yet (as a raid tier), and we have seen Deathwing in different quests before hitting max level. As you zone into Mount Hyjal for one, and in the Blasted Lands another time. He also appears and randomly destroys entire zones. Before ICC was out the Lich King was not a part of EVERY quest or zone by a long shot. I only recall seeing him a couple of times in the flesh before ICC came out. Other stuff that involved him was just his underlings, and we see plenty of those from Deathwing.

4. The raid zones are completely different. The boss fights are completely different. You at first complain about not seeing Deathwing enough, and then you complain about seeing other major figures again. What the hell do you want?

To summarize, this expansion is fine. In fact I liked it much more than WoTLK so far. The raid content is better (no 100% recycled raids and shared lockouts so you don't feel compelled to raid the same thing 4 times a week), the remade world is much better for leveling, and PvP is better because you can't burst down players in 1-2 seconds like in Wrath.

P.S. They never said 4.3 was the largest patch ever. They said it was the largest patch for Cata. Please just stop playing the game if all you can see now if the negative side of things. At least take a break from it, you will feel much better.

[Abandon]

Maybe you should get a time machine and go back in fucking time, Wotlk released Ulduar which was the greatest raid in WoW, and explained plenty of Lore, They also had Ony, Ruby, Naxx, TOC, Obsidian, and ICC. Wotlk raids > Caty. BC Also had MUCH more raids than cataclysm with much more content.

Caty is just some half assed joke that blizzard made to take as much Cush from WoW fanboys as they possibly can. When you break your Fanboyism Voodoo you will wake the fuck up and realize this before spending anymore money on this P.O.S game.

Crying like a little girl who has dropped her ice-cream cone in the sand while swearing at people because they dare have a different opinion than you makes everyone take you so much more seriously.

You should be happy that Blizzard are providing you with free entertainment, whining on the forums doesn't cost you a penny and you can keep a smug air of supeority by pretending that crying on the internet is less pathetic than enjoying a game.

[Deleted]

Transmogrification/4.3 being the largest patch ever is a stunt to preempt SWTOR.

I agree with you on a lot of points, but especially this last one. Blizzard has always been against customization of gear, and they had originally planned for more content for Cataclysm. Seems the loss of subscriptions really did make them desperate.

"Better release Deathwing already? People seem to be bored". When they said they wanted to bring out more content faster, I had expected more regular updates, like: 4.1 Troll heroics, 4.2 Firelands, 4.3 Some Heroics, 4.4 Abyssal Maw, 4.5 more Heroics, 4.5 War of the Ancients, 4.6 Heroics + Deathwing raid.

That would have been a worthy Cataclysm expansion. Not this trash we get today. Only TWO raids as patches? LOL

Remember Vanilla? Which had new raid boss(es) every month or second month?

[Ashalah]

Take beauty from Blackrock caverns on heroic. Originally it had 3 dogs that had to be cced. If your random group did not have the proper amount of CCs guess what? SOL. That is bad design. Similar argument holds for shadowfang keep first boss which used to have 2 heals that had to be interrupted. Not enough interrupts in group? SOL. The poor design of dungeons subsequently led to x3 luck of the draw, although Blizzard continued its mistakes with ZA/ZG. Jindo with 3 melee is a problem.

Beauty is an optional boss. First boss in SFK could still be done with a single interrupt, and 3-melee Jindo is only a problem to mouth breathers.

[Deleted]

There's no question that WoW is in decline. It will however remain the biggest MMO for a few years yet. When Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR hit town the defections will be MASSIVE, but WoW will survive for a little while. The biggest problem with WoW is that the developers got greedy and lazy and have rested on their laurels. Blizz should be doing what GW2 team is doing, they should bring an end to this game and start from scratch applying all the GOOD lessons learned from this one. WoW is old and clunky and quite frankly worn out. If they make the change now they would take most of their subscribers with them into a new place as it is it's fairly obvious that's not in their thinking and they're gonna pay the price for flogging this dying horse.

Cataclysm is a cynical exploitation of a loyal fanbase. The biggest mistake people make is when they call Cata an expansion. It was never an expansion it was just a big patch. Some recycled boss fights with new (old and crappy) graphics pasted into familiar landscapes. And as has become Blizz's modus operandi, we don't have any decent ideas so we'll recycle some old dungeons and saturate the game with daily after daily after daily after daily.......I'm sure there are those that still have fun playing it, but from in game experience those players predominantly started the game in LK and weren't around during the TBC - which is the time when this game was at it's best and most balanced.

For me i miss the friends i made there but i still stay in contact thru phones and skype and FB etc., i know some of them will be joining me in GW2 others heading for SWTOR (altho let's be honest SWTOR is gonna be filled with Sith lords and bounty hunters, every other class will be confronted in game with a 'WTF are you playing'?) but i hope they'll enjoy whatever they do next. It has to end sometime and WoW's time in the sun is definitely coming to a close. Who knows? Maybe Blizz will wake up and see that it's time for a new engine, a new direction some fresh people at the helm with a fresh perspective and a whole new game will result, and we'll all be back together for renewed fun, bitching and QQing.

BTW - the worst thing Blizz ever did was the LFG system we got in LK - killed server communities and led to more bitching, sniping and l33t speak nastiness than anything i've ever seen in any MMO anywhere.

[Deleted]

Because it made about 900k wrath babies unsubscribe.

And for raids, yeah. I love cata raids.

[Nos]

The main reason people are still playing this game. There's nothing else better out there! (yet)

I thought WotLK was WoW finally going in the direction I personally liked. Some called it easy, some said it was faceroll. But I can guarantee you that there were tons of happy people and the cities never seemed more alive. People were always LFM for ICC and other raids, and everything was very PuG friendly.

Now what do you have, ghostcrawler's "vision" for WoW, cater to the hardcore and devoted. His idea was to make everything harder for the real gamers, but he failed to realize that the majority of the playerbase isn't hardcore, it's the casual. Would be nice if the game itself wasn't based on a good business model, but unfortunately like all things in this world, money speaks. When you lose tons and tons of subscribers because they all either can't raid the current content or just simply run out of stuff to do when they log in, you got a whole lot of fail there.

You are NOW starting to see the reverting of ghostcrawler's "vision" back to pre WotLK days. When Cata released we had the following:

1) Nerf or removal of AoE damage
2) Nerfed damage all around
3) Nerf Tank threat
4) Make everything harder
5) Nerf Healing

Cata now has the following reversals of policy:
1) AoE back and bumped back up
2) Damage bumped back up per class
3) Recently tank threat got a bump back to normal
4) Everything save the current tier nerfed by 20% or more

Just watch in a month or so healing will get back to WotLK days.

I can imagine the board meeting back when they were developing Cata. Ghostcrawler pitching that Cata has to be "harder" and more of a timesink so people feel accomplished to down the really tough raids. Months later people complaining that stuff is too hard and people leaving. And eventually the blizzard board smacking him down saying it was a horrible idea.

Edit: Forgot to add this tidbit. Once SWotR, SC2 expansion, and Diablo 3 comes out (along with other games like BF3, etc) WoW subs will take another nosedive. Hopefully it will be enough to consolidate servers and just plain move onto Titan. Titan seems to be where the "good" developers have gone. Really FL's ISN'T Molten Core 2.0? Talk about lazy.

This expansion is not "catering" to hardcores. I'm a casual and having a blast. People who are just bad can wait for the next tier to come out, when the nerf the previous one. It's actually very balanced. People shouldn't be able to randomly trade-pug current end-game content.

[Tosks]

Wow, 900k.

11 million people say otherwise.

the 11 million are sitting in SW or Orgrimmar bored as fucking waiting for this expansion to come to a quick conclusion in hopes the next xpac isnt a complete bore