Looking for Raid is a fail, before Blizzard really implanted it.

[Domiku]

Oh okay, I can understand that then. However, I'm more than sure it will still be very possible to form groups with guildies/friends' alts, or random decent players from your server. I'm sure enough people will be too cautious/paranoid to stick with the LFR function.

I really hope Blizz does something to properly regulate that function though, more than they do for the LFD tool already in place, anyway. Guess we'll see though.

All you do if you have say 7 people and have 3 friends who want to come is this:

1) enter LFR
2) Tell the 3 random people your refusing to do anything untill they leave or brb 6h's need to poo poo
3) they leave
4) invite 3 friends.
5) profit.

Or you can enter and just say your gonna kick them before loot or just kick them for no real reason.

[Jervaise]

If the LFR comes with no leadership options, unless they include a "Clippy (Microsoft (R))" many people will be wasting their times in those raids. Clippy should definately be a murloc.

[Buu]

I just think that the LFR raids are going to be a lot easier than some people seem to think.

There is no EASY, when people ONLY think in button sequences. No worries with appropriate gear, no worries with gems, no worries with enchants, no worries with fight mechanics, no worries with use or breaking of CCs, no worries with party members, no worries with enemies in surroundings, no worries with mobs AoEs.
Only the stupid order of button CLICKING. There is no level of easy that will make people as oblivious, as the ones cited by Lumikor and DemoBytom, succeed in the game.

[Deleted]

The interesting part could be, that the LFR awards achievment.
If you aren't able to earn them on normal / heroic mode, I could see some people using LFR with their mains only to get these achievments.
This could increase the number of better geared / more experienced people in it.

[Valort]

To quote OP:

"I am considering leaving the game, because despite being a 6/7 heroic player, I am extremely upset at having to raid with 24 random players for sub-normal gear..."

In short, you're saying something which sounds like this: "Crime in New York is too high, so I'm moving to Canada. Oh btw, I live in Chicago and only visited New York once for a weekend."?

[Lucetia]

Just wondering why you care since you probably wont be using the feature that much if you are 6/7 HC and you are NEVER forced to do use this feature.

The way Blizzard is setting it up almost forces some people at the moment to do it and regular raid. If the LFR drops VP and is seperate from 7 Daily H then people will do it to maximize that. People will run LFR to maximize their chances at tier pieces and other pieces, etc.

[Dannz]

To quote OP:

"I am considering leaving the game, because despite being a 6/7 heroic player, I am extremely upset at having to raid with 24 random players for sub-normal gear..."

In short, you're saying something which sounds like this: "Crime in New York is too high, so I'm moving to Canada. Oh btw, I live in Chicago and only visited New York once for a weekend."?

no, he is saying in order to take advantage of this, and gear his alt, like he does with random dungeon finder, he has to run with idiots. and if the same kicking rules apply in the raid, it will be horrible to get rid of terribads that just plain suck ass, or assholes that are there to grief the group just "for lulz". and also, gear.

in 5 mans, dps takes tank gear from the tank, the tank rolls on healing/dps gear from healers/dps etc etc, looting in 5 mans if you actually need it, which many peoples alts do, is horrible. unless blizzard makes a new loot roll system, or enforces gear on specific role, it will be a nightmare. if they how ever would make tank loot only lootable by the players in tank role, and only healers take healing items etc, it'd be fine. but then we also have boomkins, spriests and elemental shamans that can loot spirit gear from healers cause they gain hit from it, even if they'd not really be taking it for dps, but for their healing offspec.

in general, looting, griefing, and the other craps of 5 mans will follow into raids, and make it 5 times worse :3

[Radioactive Hobo]

Fresh example from this morning, i'm on my rogue trying to get him ready for alt run today, go in ZA, happy me. In the group is a warlock, spirit gear, agility, pvp with stamina, strength and dodge, no enchants no reforging. He wont live the party, we can't kick him, the party is disbanded and he gets to stay in the dungeon until other people come in and carry him.

How the hell does a warlock get to 346 ilvl if he's running around with agility/stamina/strength/dodge gear? I mean if he hadn't reforged, all those stats must be coming from trinkets, weapon, rings and necklace. I can't say I'm convinced someone is dumb enough to go through all the molten front dailies and buy the tank/physical dps gear from the vendors.

OT: I agree with you about there being a big issues with the LFD system. But the vote kick system is much simpler to manage in LFR. You've got quite a few more people there so you can take the cooldown off the kick system and just up the number of people that say yes to the kick. There are enough people around that don't just click the yes button like you're offering them a free blowjob that you would have to give a valid reason for the kick. Again, you can make it a majority thing, say 17 out of 25, then you know it isn't being done unfairly. You still have the issue of people AFK'ing and ninja'ing items, but they could be booted much quicker and you've got more people to report them (in the ninja'ing circumstance) so people are less likely to do either; frequently at least.

[cheero]

I'm afraid that those LFR raids will either be extreamly easy or you'll wipe there gazillion of times. No vent communication, people don't know eachother.. Even doing nerfed T11 is soo easier with voice communication...
Though I'm interested how will they implement it. The worst case scenario - I won't use it, don't really have problem with it.
Also I'm wondering if you;ll be able to queue in LFD with a group (prolly yes). Then it won't be that bad - get like 8/10 people in your realm the regular way, then just queue and get last 2..? Or even get full raid of pugs from trade and queue for raid this group might do - easier raid requiring less skill/gear/communication.. And doing it this way - you controll who you get into your group, what gear they have etc.
It might work, it might not, depends on maaany factors, starting with Blizzs implementation, community and how they use it etc..

So with LGD now you cangrab a group of 5 people and queue up with no pugs. Is the new feature going to allow us to grab 25 people in my guild and queue up for some easymode loots?

[Veyne]

But is the best way really to lower stuff down to the baddies level? Isn't it better to have a higher bar so that they have to improve to do it?

They've been trying that since the launch of Cataclysm. Has it succeeded? No. You can't force someone to play a game better just by making it harder.

[Deleted]

The way Blizzard is setting it up almost forces some people at the moment to do it and regular raid. If the LFR drops VP and is seperate from 7 Daily H then people will do it to maximize that. People will run LFR to maximize their chances at tier pieces and other pieces, etc.

so I read this and went "uhm... ... ...say what?"
if you don't like being matched up with random people, don't use the LFR system. it is THAT easy.

there was a very similar system in place back in wrath (you could actually sign up on a raid as a role and write a short note about yourself) and people who looked for more could see the list of people that had entered themselves and invite them.

[Kuntantee]

Why?

Blizzard can't control 5 man dungeon pugs. vote kick system doesn't work well (known problem according to few GM's), people ninja items, goes afk, cursing. but the worst is people without proper gear. Fresh example from this morning, i'm on my rogue trying to get him ready for alt run today, go in ZA, happy me. In the group is a warlock, spirit gear, agility, pvp with stamina, strength and dodge, no enchants no reforging. He wont live the party, we can't kick him, the party is disbanded and he gets to stay in the dungeon until other people come in and carry him.

This is not new, Blizzard know about it, doing nothing. Vote kick system is not working since 4.1 for me, GM knows about it. "Keep reporting, we're working on it" When i'll try to do my next dungeon, another person will come not geared, we will all have to carry him. Or, the tank will go afk for unlimited of time, vote kick? best case in two hours.

Why Blizzard think they can control 25 man pug group like this? they can't make the basic steps to confirm people got the right gear for their class or pve environment in 5 man group. I already told my guild (6/7 hc) that i might leave WoW, and if Blizzard keep implanting new features without fixing all these problem, then screw it, Star Trek Online is better.

If you don't like random groups of dungeon finder do it with your guild...problem solved. If you think raid finder is going to suck, don't use it...Besides it won't give best gear and normal difficulty is not difficult that much. Why would you ever wanna use raid finder if you and your guild is doing good in heroics?In addition, the ones you describe (warlock with dodge and str) is really really rare. I always use random dungeon finder since wotlk and I've never seen them.

[Rafy]

Why doesn't Blizz improve the character scanning before he can queue?
For Example:
If you're a mage and you want to do the new LF Raid thingy:
- you cannot have more than 0 resilience in your equipped gear
- your equipped ilevel must be above 372 (not the gears in your bags)
- you must have 14%+ hit rating
etc.

For other classes, it can be like if you're a hunter, you must have mail gear in all slots, and the usual, cannot have more than 0 resil, min ilevel and so on.
if the raids are easy, at least filter out the horrible people and those who make the game horrible for the other 24 in the group.
If people don't care about gearing properly, or reading about how to gear their characters, they should not be allowed in the free loot mania thingy ...

Am I right?
Or should every noob just go in and "experience" the content and make other peoples lives miserable?

[Deleted]

I run successfully pretty much every random dungeon I step into. I have farmed random troll heroics a lot. Actually I have not almost ever ran any guild heroics, so if I compare pug/guild play, then pug heroics win any day all the time. Some especially tanks say that they don't want to tank random heroics, because there are so much bads and trolls, but why am I finishing so many heroics then?

Sure there are cases when things are not going smoothly. But the same case is with raids. Things don't always go smoothly even in guild runs. There are delays when people have to leave, raid leader goes to spam trade, etc...

And at least there _is_ a vote kick tool, and I have successfully used it many times. Vote kicking is not completely non functional either, even though it can be improved. If you kick every annoying person and if you get easily annoyed, then of course it is just fine if the system puts some limits to the kicking frency. If there are no limits to vote kicking, then some trolls would missuse it.

And I have run some raids in Wotlk in pugs, though not the hardest ones. LFR tool doesn't put people in the harder raid modes.

If you have no luck with LFR-tool, then get into a guild. But we puggers pug...

[Rafy]

The interesting part could be, that the LFR awards achievment.
If you aren't able to earn them on normal / heroic mode, I could see some people using LFR with their mains only to get these achievments.
This could increase the number of better geared / more experienced people in it.

are you kidding me?
if a guild run cannot do an achievement on normal mode, a stupid noob pug will be able to do it on the noob mode? they should be thankful if they can kill a boss. lmao =))

[Jervaise]

Why doesn't Blizz improve the character scanning before he can queue?
For Example:
If you're a mage and you want to do the new LF Raid thingy:
- you cannot have more than 0 resilience in your equipped gear
- your equipped ilevel must be above 372 (not the gears in your bags)
- you must have 14%+ hit rating
etc.

For other classes, it can be like if you're a hunter, you must have mail gear in all slots, and the usual, cannot have more than 0 resil, min ilevel and so on.
if the raids are easy, at least filter out the horrible people and those who make the game horrible for the other 24 in the group.
If people don't care about gearing properly, or reading about how to gear their characters, they should not be allowed in the free loot mania thingy ...

Am I right?
Or should every noob just go in and "experience" the content and make other peoples lives miserable?

Although I am in 100% agreement with what you have stated, you have to think realistically

Among the people whom are going to use the LFR tool, a very very little percentage will have proper gear - gem - enchant - skill - knowledge required to run a raid. I know that you KNOW what I am talking about. If by any tiny tiny chance you don't, try to go for a few zandalari and you'll see. If such limitations were to be implemented, queues will take hours!

[almalexia]

its not a feature targeted at you, its a feature targeted at people who don't really have any other raiding options. and for them, its a lot better than not raiding at all, in the exact same way that LFD is better than not dungeoning at all for people who aren't able to go with their own premade guild groups.

[Buu]

so I read this and went "uhm... ... ...say what?"
if you don't like being matched up with random people, don't use the LFR system. it is THAT easy.

Only that being MATCHED UP with people that know what they doing, because they CARED to learn is GREAT. I love when a group of strangers goes well. You learn new things, people do different stuff, deal with all different ways due to change of spec/class in the random group.
In a scenario where people took their time to read and learn the game mechanics,even if they are still GETTING USED and are suboptimal, it's FUN. ALOT of fun.

Problem is when people want to show they DON'T CARE, because cool people win without caring. Problem is they DON'T win, and worst, drag you with them to failure.

Unless Blizzard have the guts to finally admit that people without preparation shouldn't join Randoms, making demands for random higher than pre-made groups, it's a failure in making alright.

[Rafy]

Although I am in 100% agreement with what you have stated, you have to think realistically

Among the people whom are going to use the LFR tool, a very very little percentage will have proper gear - gem - enchant - skill - knowledge required to run a raid. I know that you KNOW what I am talking about. If by any tiny tiny chance you don't, try to go for a few zandalari and you'll see. If such limitations were to be implemented, queues will take hours!

the thing is, if they cannot get a proper gear before getting in a raid, they shouldn't be raiding...
I mean, it's so freakin easy, you just run ZA/ZG randoms for 2 weeks, and you should be able fill all your slots with 353-359 pieces. some from drops, some from JP (359 tiers) some from VP (T12) etc.
I just leveled a druid to 85 and 2 weeks I have over 360 ilevel without buying anything...
there's the quest 365 cloak, run FL trash for rep belt, better cloak, etc... so many options, but people are just lazy.

If they are lazy, they should not be allowed to run raids.

[Needalight]

Unfortunately, or fortunately for you(since it bothers you so much) Blizzard cannot control how people gear their characters. Blizzard already "dumbed" down the game enough, and some people just refuse to learn. Since you also mentioned that you are 6/7 Heroic, the new easy mode on raids should not affect you at all. Blizzard is giving everyone an equal opportunity so they can clear content. Look at it this way, with 3 difficulty levels, Blizzard will no longer nerf content like it is being nerfed now. You and everyone else who cries about content nerf will no longer need to shed tears of QQ anymore.

BTW. Learn some better english. You sound like a 14 year old kid with all those typos and grammar errors.