Combat looks very stiff

[Karazee]

My only problem with the looks of combat is that the animation can sometimes end before the Global Cooldown is up, making it appear as though character is standing around doing nothing for a half second here and there between combat moves. That's what makes it look not as fluid as WoW players are used to - each move itself looks fine, but move to move to move can look choppy.

Shouldn't be too hard for them to fix, just have to slow down the timer on the animation. I'll post it on the beta forums.

[Rio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juNABCw5338

TB's own video. Watch it and decide for yourself.

Sadly I wasn't very impressed with the combat system overall, things seem very stiff but that doesn't mean that I won't at least try it out.

[Deleted]

Stiff? bad animations? WoW good animations? WoW has very fluid animations, some of them are cool others are just horrible!

SWTOR will have animations that fit their world and with much more detail than the ones from WoW. Combat looks stiff? wait till you play it and then judge it.

THis is old footage and still, it has details that the animations from WoW never had. Yes i know it's a 7 year old game and they said they are going to update the animations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ayNgd_60qw

Btw FYI SWTOR uses motion capture for most animations.

[Trollsbane]

Comparisons can be made if they are constructive. "That game is the poop" is not constructive. Opinions will differ, but that doesn't give the right to just bash in a mean way.

[Raeli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juNABCw5338

TB's own video. Watch it and decide for yourself.

Sadly I wasn't very impressed with the combat system overall, things seem very stiff but that doesn't mean that I won't at least try it out.

I watched that, and aside from the obvious bug here and there where animations froze, it looked great in my opinion. The Animations no longer take control of your character, you can still press buttons and keep moving and such - to me, it looks like it feels like WoW combat, very smooth, no jittering around as an animation moves you to the side or whatever, the running looked fine and normal, enemies clearly dodge and parry attacks (not all attacks, of course), there's clear reaction to being hit occasionally, I don't follow how that video can make it look bad

[Omians]

I watched that, and aside from the obvious bug here and there where animations froze, it looked great in my opinion. The Animations no longer take control of your character, you can still press buttons and keep moving and such - to me, it looks like it feels like WoW combat, very smooth, no jittering around as an animation moves you to the side or whatever, the running looked fine and normal, enemies clearly dodge and parry attacks (not all attacks, of course), there's clear reaction to being hit occasionally, I don't follow how that video can make it look bad

only if people dont like that fresh hickory smoked biscuit jedi smell

when i played KOTOR i loved its animation style.. i liked that it was being put into SWTOR and having freedom of moving around while doing a lot of the abilitys added to it, i mean there was reaction to being hit, but in WoW there isnt to much of that also

[Deleted]

Ok firstly on the original page of this thread a guy posted a video of soemone playing the game. On tht vid the gameplay looks brilliant. I played wow for 6 years and the combat as a whole was lazy and poor. The fluidty of rotations and moved was gd but animations were very very basic and the epic feel of battle just did not exist.

Actually i lie it did in vanilla in 40 man raids more so. One of the disadvateges with wow combat was actualy combat mechanics. Alot of the fights you couldnt conectrate on how gd the combat or spells looked because you were too tied get max DPS or HPS and worry about what your chacter was doing. Now i never struggled with this, i raided HC but at the end of the day blizzard struggled and i would say completly ignored how combat play from not only a visual side but also a motion side aswell. Each class had like 2 diffrent anumations for each sex its very lazy, and too tackle the its not hard enough complaints they just added more and more tactics in the fight (not all fights) resulting im combat being tbh not tht fun.

Im not suggesting SWTOR will be any better in tht sense but firstly its clearly a fact that the animations are 100% better than wow for a start. Secondly, because of this large battles with multiple players looks visually alot more epic.
Thridly if people havent realised yet but the new monk class in some respects will also not have GCD. If people are heavy MMO champion followers you would of watched the mmo report where casey schneider interviewed 3 guys who played the monk. The first thing the guy said, 'well it felt kinda sluggish and slow'. Let me tell you now that is because he is a tard and either didnt hotkey (prob couldnt as he was on some random comp) or he was just too slow. Removing GCD is a great idea in MMO combat and wow stole this off SWTOR. Why is it great? Because it forces the player to use certain moves at certain time even more so than the current stadard mmo combat. It makes the player have full control over what the out put dmg is and thats right! Alot of these videos like the one above they are not using moves as soon GCD comes off resulting in the player standing there in a stance postion. Why is this a bad thing? If you arnt telling it to do a move then it shouldnt. A player shouldnt just get output dmg for doing nothing its stupid. Auto attack is pretty much herp derp.

Watch the video again and look at the player and also what they are doing with moves in the HUD. When the player uses moves as soon as GCD ends the combat looks fluid and im sorry but it clearly does so im still dont understand why people dont see it or even comparing it to wow.

---------- Post added 2011-11-02 at 04:40 PM ----------

only if people dont like that fresh hickory smoked biscuit jedi smell

when i played KOTOR i loved its animation style.. i liked that it was being put into SWTOR and having freedom of moving around while doing a lot of the abilitys added to it, i mean there was reaction to being hit, but in WoW there isnt to much of that also

I agree, i really cannot grasp people comparing it to wow. Not because its SWTOR and im some fanboy but because wow's combat visuals and feel are some of the most lazy and boring in the entier industry. Yes there rotations may fluidly work but that is only about 20% of a entier combat system of an MMO.

[Deleted]

only if people dont like that fresh hickory smoked biscuit jedi smell

when i played KOTOR i loved its animation style.. i liked that it was being put into SWTOR and having freedom of moving around while doing a lot of the abilitys added to it, i mean there was reaction to being hit, but in WoW there isnt to much of that also

Just like to tune in here as the voice of doubt, but WoW does have that, and I think Everquest did, Bioware didn't exactly perform a miracle here and it looks like their meshing animations have flaws in movement.

---------- Post added 2011-11-02 at 10:52 PM ----------

I agree, i really cannot grasp people comparing it to wow. Not because its SWTOR and im some fanboy but because wow's combat visuals and feel are some of the most lazy and boring in the entier industry. Yes there rotations may fluidly work but that is only about 20% of a entier combat system of an MMO.

Actually quite wrong, Warcrafts combat and movement is actually fairly fluid and loose compared to the juggernaught of a game it is.

[Deleted]

I actualy think the combat in SWTOR looks really good, especialy the different amount of animations on the jedi sword attacks.

[Deleted]

I actualy think the combat in SWTOR looks really good, especialy the different amount of animations on the jedi sword attacks.

Swinging twirls all around, it looks alright. I just hope they give a few more variations for the range combatants besides the same standing and shooting animation.

[Simca]

WoW is the only MMO I've seen with an extremely fluid combat system. Attacks flow from one to another and everything just feels "right". I've played Warhammer, Aion, Rift, and a few others and having played WoW before them has just ruined those games for me. Nothing feels right. Everything feels stiff and clunky.

However, in Vanilla WoW, the animations were alright but there were HUGE issues. I have a feeling that SWTOR will be the same and I won't be able to stomach it until multiple expansions or however long it takes them to fix. I'll still give it a chance though.

[Deleted]

WoW is the only MMO I've seen with an extremely fluid combat system. Attacks flow from one to another and everything just feels "right". I've played Warhammer, Aion, Rift, and a few others and having played WoW before them has just ruined those games for me. Nothing feels right. Everything feels stiff and clunky.

However, in Vanilla WoW, the animations were alright but there were HUGE issues. I have a feeling that SWTOR will be the same and I won't be able to stomach it until multiple expansions or however long it takes them to fix. I'll still give it a chance though.

Apart from Guild wars 2 and WoW, I feel TOR had exceptional character control, similar to WAR, but alot of the "bulk" of the movement shifted. It's only the jerky animations that let it down, especially in PvP.

[Deleted]

The reason SW:TOR may feel clunky to the masses is because they took the time to create a variety of animations that are able to sync with one another if in range, while having that same "smooth" feeling you'd have in WoW if you were farther away, of still being able to do damage, but the animation/attack not making sense because in a visual aspect, you're just too far away.

It feels clunky because of the several animations not meshing well together on the move or at all. Your character will jerk a little every time or swing his lightsabre totally wrong.

[Dreavus]

If that's why it feels clunky to you any many others, then it's definitely something that happens in every single MMO I've ever played, and should be considered trivial at best.

Even in WoW, the animations don't mesh well together on the move or at all. Sure, ranged animations hit their target because they kind of are set to do so, like heat seaking missiles, but many a time still, physical melee weapons wont hit the target's body. You just can't have that happen every time, especially with the melee range being opened up to a few yards away from your enemy. SW:TOR at least tries to help this aspect with their choreographed combat/parry/dodging varied animations.

P.s. My post was deleted by me by mistake. Sadface.

[Geckomayhem]

You honestly never can tell until you try something. The combat looked very jerky in the older videos as if you were simply doing one move, then another move, with set animations over and over. But in beta and in release I'll bet it flows a lot more fluidly. Bioware are sure to know what they are doing with fluid combat animation.

[DaGhostDS]

If i based my opinion of a game based on video i wouldnt play much game

in my opinion it does not look stiff, rather opposite, a very action-agile-like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drs1z...layer_embedded

( Jedi Shadow lvl 40 PvP movie )

Edit: I don't know if it breaks NDA, it's on youtube and EA didn't delete it like many-many other clips - I guess it's a good promo of their game.

an you find it on an official press website? nope
Does it look like a tester video? yup

There you go, NDA breach
Its not because its on youtube that it mean anything, there is even mention in the description that its an NDA breach and would not be blurred by a press or Bioware.


P.S. Imagine if they sued every NDA breakers in public beta? Because that's how the industry work. You could not get a job anywhere, because they check criminal record at most that you can work. You might think its exaggerating but its reality.

[Simca]

If that's why it feels clunky to you any many others, then it's definitely something that happens in every single MMO I've ever played, and should be considered trivial at best.

It's the difference between a good MMO and an amazing MMO in my opinion. Smoothness of animation is absolutely critical to me.

Even in WoW, the animations don't mesh well together on the move or at all. Sure, ranged animations hit their target because they kind of are set to do so, like heat seaking missiles, but many a time still, physical melee weapons wont hit the target's body. You just can't have that happen every time, especially with the melee range being opened up to a few yards away from your enemy. SW:TOR at least tries to help this aspect with their choreographed combat/parry/dodging varied animations.

WoW's melee animations are much much much closer though.

I think lightsabers are what cause the problem because they are wielded in such a way that they are just supposed to skim the enemy's body instead of deliver a huge hit. The lightsaber "hits" are 90% of what makes me cringe in these videos.

That said, it is still in beta, and I'll definitely try it once they have some sort of free trial system. But I'm not going to gamble $50-60 on what I see as a 50/50 chance that the animation team is great.

[zealous]

It's the difference between a good MMO and an amazing MMO in my opinion. Smoothness of animation is absolutely critical to me.



WoW's melee animations are much much much closer though.

I think lightsabers are what cause the problem because they are wielded in such a way that they are just supposed to skim the enemy's body instead of deliver a huge hit. The lightsaber "hits" are 90% of what makes me cringe in these videos.

That said, it is still in beta, and I'll definitely try it once they have some sort of free trial system. But I'm not going to gamble $50-60 on what I see as a 50/50 chance that the animation team is great.

If there's anything I've learned about games in the ~13 years playing every RPG, Action game and RTS I could get my hands onto, is that videos never adequately represent the product. Neither do screenshots.

And I don't think we can really be objective about WoW, after playing it for all these years. We don't see the flaws anymore, even if we did back in the day. It's all grown on us too much. And even the most pragmatic and reasonable ones among us are too emotionally invested in the game to see its faults clearly. No to mention the force of habit and adaptation. You know, kind of like the mechanism through which the human nose adapts to any smell in roughly 15 minutes, no matter how horrible it is.

So any WoW comparison is invalid in my eyes.

[Saturate]

P.S. Imagine if they sued every NDA breakers in public beta? Because that's how the industry work. You could not get a job anywhere, because they check criminal record at most that you can work. You might think its exaggerating but its reality.

Except that then there would be no beta, ever. They would spend huge amounts of money on lawyers trying to control something that can't really be controlled. And the companies would have to internally test everything. Guess which option is more profitable to them?

[Deleted]

Swinging twirls all around, it looks alright. I just hope they give a few more variations for the range combatants besides the same standing and shooting animation.

Oh this is rich coming from the fact tht there are like hardly any animations in WoW. I spent 6 years playing a human warlock watching me do the same thing over and over again. WoW combat is lazy! As ive said before just beacuse WoW can string a few moves together dosent make it fluid and gd, rubbish.
Lets take the shamon, you talk about stiffness, well it took 3 years for a shamon to become a non turret in ele. Tht was a stiff play style.... Have you not seen when you melee attack with auto attack and you choose to do the a move liek heroic strike and your chacer spins around twice in delay. Wtf is tht all about?

Its EXACALLY what Zealous said. We have been playing wow for so long no one catually cares about the badness of wow. But let me tell you there are alot of flaws in the combat system. Oh also let me tell you, some of rotations arnt all what there cracked up to be either. I remeber playing the whole of TBC as a lock spamming 1 move! ONE MOVE! shadow bolt, how is this a gd combat system, i mean come one people!

As soon as i watched soem actual game footage of combat in SWTOR i was amazed by how stunning and epic it looked. Not to mention no AA!