Is this not total bs?

**Spectral** · 2013-01-21, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Fitzgerald77

So I guess all of the people that I know or are close friends to me that deliver food (or used to) that told me they could care less if they got a tip from somebody or not and don't hold grudges because of it were lying for no reason huh? Rofl...

Since I don't know you personally, I can't say for sure, but I'd guess that you're engaging in self deception. I doubt anyone ever said to you, "I don't care at all if there's a tip, I think all customers are equal, and some of the people that don't tip are great customers". It seems more likely that a buddy said, "not that big a deal, I don't get mad or anything" and you concluded that it's not a problem. Everyone wants to believe in their own inherent goodness.

Originally Posted by Fitzgerald77

If some people are in fact talking shit behind my back then I could really care less. They are probably the same type of people that are too scared to talk to their boss about getting a raise because they aren't getting enough precious tips.

Right, like I said, it's your call to not care. Just don't delude yourself into believing that servers like you.

**Extrazero8** · 2013-01-21, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Tinykong

A tip that's expected isn't a tip, it's a fee. I wish the service industry would sack up, and stop trying to play the pity party angle about low wages and how it's unfair. Yay, you managed to drive a cab 5 blocks without crashing it and killing someone, or to bring a glass of water to my table. Why that deserves some arbitrary amount of money based on the cost of the service is beyond me. IMO, pay them a fair wage and let me tip them when service is excellent, instead of making it socially unacceptable to not leave a tip for lackluster service.

We have a winner.

Its a fee that is optional based on the level of service. If you get good service you should leave a good tip. If you get bad service you should not leave a tip.

The only other option is to raise the price of food for everyone no matter how they get their food or the level of service they get.

Deleted · 2013-01-21, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by poser765

The problem with delivery fees is that driver sees little of that money. That's really my only complaint with the system. it breeds the attitude that since they already paid for delivery they shouldn't have to tip the driver, when the driver is the one getting screwed. I can't blame the customer for that...hell that's a big reason why i don't have pizza delivered to me.

Which can be fixed by increasing the price of the product and increase the wage of the driver/waitress.

Originally Posted by Melkandor

Exactly this. Honestly if I were you OP and somebody didnt pay a tip for 150 pizzas I think I'd be pretty pissed off, as pizza delivery drivers use their own cars and gas money to deliver pizzas, and you get paid less as a delivery boy because your boss expects customers to cover the rest of your paycheck in tips.

Oh yeah? If I was the school I would be pissed off I didn't get a volume discount. His boss got so much profit of those 150 pizzas he could say: Well lil Johnny we got ourselves the jackpot today. What you say, tip of 25 USD from me today? Who screw who over? He's angry at the customer. Why not at his boss? Because his boss would fire him if he'd have a big mouth, that's why.

Originally Posted by SadisticChipmunk

So you think that the restaurants expenses would go up, but the cost of the products wouldn't? Do you know... anything about business?

I never said the cost of product wouldn't go up. That's pretty much a given.

Instead of saying

5 + ? = HAPPEH.

I say

5 + 2 = 7 = HAPPEH.

With 2 going to boss, who pays for gas, and who refuses to deliver to Siberia cause its just a lil bit too far drivin'.

Deleted · 2013-01-21, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Extrazero8

Its not free money. The owners pay their servers less because the tip is expected. You see a lower list price on food because of that. Your server's pay is not included in that list price. You're freeloading off of other people that tip and you expect free service.

And if you are properly declaring your tips for tax purposes, as everyone else in the country has to do on their wages, then your employer has to make up your wage to minimum wage.

Right now you are expecting the customer to subsidise the business who refuse to pay a decent wage. You are probably not paying tax, and you are probably earning more than other people on minimum wage who dont get tips. I doubt you tip your supermarket cashier, or your postman, or your bin collectors.

People are not obliged to tip, tipping is discretionary for exceptional service, if anyone demanded or otherwise indicated they expected to be tipped, I'd not on principle.

**skatblast** · 2013-01-21, 07:57 PM

Break 1300 worth of windows

**Fateq** · 2013-01-21, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by skatblast

Break 1300 worth of windows

Because School's done have insurance, right.

Maybe if the most outspoken of tip supporters weren't all "Yeah spit in their food" etc i'd feel bad for them.

Deleted · 2013-01-21, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Extrazero8

I'm sorry. That should have been "Tipping is required for consistent proper service". If you're known not to tip while others do then your not a priority.

Yeah, and that's fair enough, then I don't go visit your stupid place if you treat me less than others.

You're server doesn't care. If fact your server would rather you not come back than waste their time.

Of course Bob doesn't care. But if every time Bob delivers a pizza on an address its the last time because he delivers it after 1 hour because he likes to screw customers who don't tip, and its always the last pizza being delivered to an address being Bob's, or if the boss is getting complains Bob is rude and demanding tip, well then its buh-bye Bob. Cause your boss doesn't give a rat about you and your tips. That's your own responsibility & luck. Your boss cares about selling pizzas! And FYI if you'd tamper with my food and I get ill of it I'd contact the equiv of the FDA. I know a bad pizza when I see it, when I smell it, and when I eat it and it tastes like SOAP. I happen to like pizza (well certain types) and it is a food I've eaten in various countries, world-wide. I also thoroughly enjoy a good glass of wine with my pizza.

You see the manager doesn't want to get bitched at to raise someone's pay because the customers are not meeting their expectation. Managers would rather their employees be happy and productive. If that means less orders but the tippers are kept happy then all the better.

Orly then who's the boss in your business? Your managers need to grow a pair of balls and kick out these spoiled kids who think they're in power who gets delivered a proper meal. The meal is already paid. It doesn't take any skill to deliver pizzas, so for you 10 others, that's what your manager should say. Your boss is a loser if he doesn't, and he's gonna lose customers with that attitude. Again, its recession, you should be glad you get customers... if you got people in line who you can't serve cause its booming business, or because you're top notch place, its a different story.

What makes you think you're entitled to have your needs meet before someone that tips?

Simple, its first come first serve. If I know you're slacking on my delivery and you're top notch pizzeria I may actually start to lick your *** to get you to deliver faster, but for nearly all of these businesses they are in fierce competition and sorry boy if you're not by default giving me a good, warm, perishable product in a reasonable amount of time (which the waitress while I phone will actually TELL ME BEFOREHAND) then it is the last time we do business.

You may like that, but your manager and boss don't. They should be HAPPY they get a customer, especially in this recession. Stop lying to yourself with this load of bollocks, I'm not buying it.

This is an option and no one expects you to tip for it.

I pay 10 EUR for an authentic Italian pizza, which includes Italian products, baked by a Swiss chef who I've known for 25+ years. I order various times a year. I also visit this restaurant with friends. Only thing is, I used to live further away from that pizzeria, and back then they only had restaurant and take away no delivery. Delivery is something recent, but I now live so close to them I might as well do the lil' walk.

Its not free money. The owners pay their servers less because the tip is expected. You see a lower list price on food because of that. Your server's pay is not included in that list price. You're freeloading off of other people that tip and you expect free service.

Yeah I get the USA works like that, but it is still voluntary (AFAIK it is voluntary everywhere in USA, I have been in London where I had as much as 12,5% added as tip automatically). The nature of the system is, its voluntary and you never know exactly what ya gonna get. In a rough economy I suppose you get less. If you're in a rich area, you get more, if you live in a bum neighborhood with people on welfare you get less. Hard working middle income likely tips a lot too. But you're never sure, are you. So that's a given. If you want to be more sure, adopt our European socialist system instead: higher prices, virtually no tip (except in restaurant), boss pays gas, you got stable income. Liberty comes with a price. You can give it up for security, insurance.

**poser765** · 2013-01-21, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by lolalola

Which can be fixed by increasing the price of the product and increase the wage of the driver/waitress.

yeah I should have qualified. it's a complain sure, but a really minor one. It's still not something I see as needing to be fixed. Now is society as a whole just stopped tipping (which won't happen) then the paradigm would need to shift. Until then, it's working fine for me. Very fine, in fact.

I think a lot of people are getting hung up on semantics. Yes a tip is expected, but it's certainly not mandatory.

**Destruktion** · 2013-01-21, 08:16 PM

No one is obligated to give tips to people who service them.
In the OP's case, there was a STRONG social obligation to tip the OP for the immense amount of work he had to deal with.

I always tip waiters and food servers and such because it's common courtesy, and plus I like making people feel good. If you don't tip then that's fine, generally, but the people here who are making excuses NOT to tip servers are cheapskates and shit human beings who I would like to avoid at all costs.

**Fitzgerald77** · 2013-01-21, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Extrazero8

I don't know how things work were you are but that's how they work here.

Either the place where they worked gave them a proper living wage or they were lying.

I guess I have one more reason to be living in Canada then. No way in hell I could put up with whiny little bitches that act like children when they don't receive something that isn't even entitled to them in the first place, it's just flat out appalling.

Everyone I know has worked for at least minimum wage so maybe that's one of the reasons why they could care less. As i said already, It's not my fault that some people get fucked over by their company/employer on wage and it's not my duty to fix it because of some stupid social norm.

As I also said before I only tip the guys I have known for years that deliver food to me because the food is awesome and they are always fast, even when I didn't always have cash on me to tip them the service and quality remained the same. But as for those clowns at restaurants that believe that they are entitled to an extra 10-15% every single time no matter what? The people that cop a shitty attitude for no good reason when you do something as simple as asking them the time of day and never even come back to your table just to see how things are going and/or if you need anything? They can go fuck themselves. So go ahead, call me a bad person, I could really care less, because to me it goes both ways.

**poser765** · 2013-01-21, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Fitzgerald77

I guess I have one more reason to be living in Canada then. No way in hell I could put up with whiny little bitches that act like children when they don't receive something that isn't even entitled to them in the first place, it's just flat out appalling.

The reality is you could tip NO one here in the US and would still see just as much bad service as you do in Canada. Sure we talk bad about you when we get back to the store, but I promise you, we are not the only industry that bad mouths customers in the break room. Hell I would bet some of my mamma's money you done it too.

**Spectral** · 2013-01-21, 08:22 PM

Tipping 15%+ at Canadian restaurants is customary the same as it is in the United States. You're not Europe, don't pretend that there's a cultural difference that justifies your behavior. Just own your inner cheapness, do what you like, and recognize that servers will almost uniformly regard you as a prick. That's fine, it's entirely your call, just don't delude yourself.

**Sealed** · 2013-01-21, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Melkandor

pizza delivery drivers use their own cars and gas money to deliver pizzas

What ? That's madness. Why are expenses related and necessary to the activity of the company not borne by the company ?

Why would part of an employee's wages be entirely dependent on the will of the customer ?

That's a crazy system you've got there, America.

**poser765** · 2013-01-21, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sealed

What ? That's madness. Why are expenses related and necessary to the activity of the company not borne by the company ?

Why would part of an employee's wages be entirely dependent on the will of the customer ?

That's a crazy system you've got there, America.

lol it is...but it works...and works well.

**Bad Ashe** · 2013-01-21, 08:25 PM

i used to be a pizza delivery driver too, i delivered to a school pizza party on several occasions, each time was at least 2 trips, and was tipped very well by them each time. this is a very rude slap in the face, especially since im sure the school recieved a more than generous discount.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 08:28 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Sealed

What ? That's madness. Why are expenses related and necessary to the activity of the company not borne by the company ?

Why would part of an employee's wages be entirely dependent on the will of the customer ?

That's a crazy system you've got there, America.

1. tips are expected to partially compensate for A)gas, and B)increased Ins. payments. the company does compensate some of this, but tips are where the difference is made up.

**Extrazero8** · 2013-01-21, 08:31 PM