The Alliance and its loss of Identity.

[Combatbutler]

I'm good with Varian, Anduin, and Jaina being involved. Just looking forward to seeing other races expanded.

I really got confused with people saying Varian was a warmonger during Cataclysm when....he did nothing. At all.

I'm expecting good things for the Alliance when the Legion expansion comes back around. Draenei should get a lot of attention and Alliance should get Turalyon and Alleria back, which I'm hoping includes a confrontation between the Windrunner sisters at some point.

I am interested to see, how Alleria will turn out, she always thought Quel'thalas was the most important thing, seeing what happened to her sister and her people in general it might actually break her, since she couldn't really cope with the minor damage the orcs did to her homeland.

[Enosh]

you take demonic-blood fuelled orcs master-minded by a selfish warlock who would knowingly damn his own people for personal gain and you compare that to Garrosh...

i think you're over-estimating garrosh a bit =P

quite sure Garrosh talks pretty openly about the whole "lets murder everything" and the orcs under no bloodlust seem to be fine with it
funny how there seems to be so little difference between orcs under bloodlust and those without it
wonder what it will be after mop "the sha made us do it!" "but you started it before we even got to pandaria..." "shut up, all the sha fault, orcs are innocent!"

but like people said, the favorite faction of the story developers gets more story development, more news at 11
nothing is going to change as long as the same people are in charge and I feel sorry for everyone being naive enough to think they actually mean it when they say "alliance/draenei*/worgen will have more love soon(tm), really mean it this time, pinky swear"

*in their case probably the leadership going neutral with the whole army of light thing, yay more neutral alliance leaders

[Alfryd]

-blood elves are the only race within the Horde that I feel lost most of their identity. Ever since they were introduced in the warcraft lore, they've been a race that tried to protect their kingdoms at all costs. This meant that the fel absorbing morally grey part fit them in BC. But then at the end of BC Blizzard went and basically scrapped all that by giving them Light infused Sunwell. That was not a very good decision as I see it (funny, this further goes with your logic, as by doing this they made blood elves closer to the Alliance mentality, thus ruining the Alliance in a way even more since there was an alliance think-alike race in the Horde now).

I totally agree with their identity. They were introduced as this amazing race that, through hardships, have overcome difficulties simply because they're determined and willing to do what's necessary. And then the Sunwell patch happened.

The Blood Elves without the plight of the Sunwell is abit like Draenei without the Burning Legion. Blizzard took away their races metaphorical carrot; the Blood Elves have little to nothing to strive for now, and them still remaining in the Horde is almost a lore-folly really. They left the Alliance over much less than what they've endured in the Horde. (Blackmail from Sylvanas, racism from Garrosh and the squandering of their dying race under the Horde. How funny! They left the Alliance over racism and unnecessary blood elven deaths. Why are they still in the Horde again?)

But if they did what I suggested; Elemental sucking instead of Naruu sucking, then the Sunwell would still be damaged. They would still be their gritty, dark and ruthless race that we knew and loved. Simply under the proper banner; the Alliance, and not the Horde, where a huge portion of Alliance identity was squandered.

Alas this is in the past and will never happen. Adding High Elves will only exasperate the problem for the Alliance, so I think the kindest thing for the Alliance now is to kill of the High Elves and endure the Blood Elven presence in the Horde... as much as that breaks my heart.

Edit:

Unless they reform the High Elves wildly, which they kinda have done. The depictions of High Elves lately have been kinda hate filled and ruthless, which might add an interesting dynamic within the Alliance...

[Verdugo]

Besides the fact that their needs to be some action taken against her by the Alliance for her actions, she really doesn't need development. She got quite a lot during Cata, if not more than any of the other current racial leaders.

Thats the thing, she got so much that she is like train, its impossible to stop it without it turning into trainwreck.

[Deleted]

What frustrates me is how easily Blizzard could do more and have completely failed to do so in this expansion.

I mean, seriously, Varian is RIGHT THERE. He's the center point for the Alliance in this war. Why did they ignore this opportunity?

Instead of "Hush, Tyrande" 2.0 in A Little Patience, why didn't Tyrande take the lead of telling Varian to be patient, lay traps, do all the things they did? Because that's pretty much how I'd expect a woman who's led her people for 10,000 years in conflict and wars in a forest setting to approach a situation. In the end, Varian could have learned how the night elves fight, their tactics, and their style.

The Trials of the High King was basically a set up pitch that should have been a home run, but they didn't capitalize. You have Varian go through this situations LEARNING FROM the nations of the Alliance, growing more knowledgeable and wise, understanding each of his allies' strengths to build up to Varian being a masterful tactician and general utilizing all the races in the final siege on Orgrimmar. In the process, each Alliance race could have equally gotten more of a chance to shine similar to what the Horde's racial leaders are getting.

Instead, the 30 something year old king is wiser than the 10,000 year old warrior priestess in what should have been her own area of expertise.

Indeed, when they said that Varian will be some sort of Supreme Commander I sort of accepted the idea because I thought he's going to be as such as he's going to do something for every race of the Alliance and in the meantime he'll learn of the differences in culture and thinking of each race and start to adapt and then be accepted because he's one who has connections to most races in a way. Sort of like every leader will share to him some of their wisdom and how they can tackle certain problems, show him different tactics and fixes to different problems the Alliance has and he'd earn and grow, adapt.

Instead we get him giving orders and showing other leaders how they're stupid and wrong... seriously?

[Alfryd]

Instead we get him giving orders and showing other leaders how they're stupid and wrong... seriously?

I think this is a key problem too.

I personally believe they gave a 'council' style ruling to the wrong race. How cool would it have been to have a council of the 7 human kingdoms? Even if the kingdoms were destroyed, find a representative of each kingdom and 'unite' them; so 7 different humans that can equally rule the Alliance.

Even that, although still human dominated, would be better than the state of Varian and Anduin... >.>

[Deleted]

I think this is a key problem too.

I personally believe they gave a 'council' style ruling to the wrong race. How cool would it have been to have a council of the 7 human kingdoms? Even if the kingdoms were destroyed, find a representative of each kingdom and 'unite' them; so 7 different humans that can equally rule the Alliance.

Even that, although still human dominated, would be better than the state of Varian and Anduin... >.>

That would have been quite an idea, and would have fit the humans. Maybe not all 7 kingdoms, as some were wiped for good, but at least a council of a few of them, at least the ones even partially alive.

[Deleted]

I love this. So much. It was a fantastic read, and I may as well have been staring at my screen screaming "YESYESYESYESYESYESYES!"

The Horde has such a spotlight in this expansion, that I really hope that the next expansion has a large focus on the alliance. If it is a burning legion expansion, Draenei could play a huge role, and the Night Elves could be close behind as well. They were the only races fighting demons for thousands of years. I completely agree with what you said about Dwarves, Gnomes, and Worgen.

I really wish you could just e-mail this to blizzard. xD

[Verdugo]

They were the only races fighting demons for thousands of years.

Sure, if you count running as fighting and war of the ancients lasted thousands of years...

[Combatbutler]

Sure, if you count running as fighting and war of the ancients lasted thousands of years...

Strange isn't it. The only races who arguably fought actively against the burning legion for a long time were the high elves and humans of Dalaran, since they created the order of Tirisfal, to battle against the demons and protect their world. Though the Night elves battled the remnants of the Legion on Kalimdor, the war of the Satyr comes to mind.

[Deleted]

Sure, if you count running as fighting and war of the ancients lasted thousands of years...

Actually it depends how you see it.

Draenei were chased by their demon brothers all the time, and form what I understood Draenor wasn't the first place they settled. They stopped for a few times and every time the Legion found them. Obviously they ran, but before running some fighting had to be done.
As for night elves, remnants of the Legion and the War of the Satyr come to mind. Also, funny enough, even if the Highbourne who joined the night elves in Cata suck badly, they do have much experience with demons as they kept that giant demon dog trying to siphon its powers and learned about it and other demons (I doubt they took the first demon that came through the portal and sucked its powers since there's also imps, satyrs etc there, so obviously they tried a few times).



I'd like to also add though that the members of the Council of Tirisfal also have great experience fighting Legion, but of those some are Alliance and some Horde now and some neutral. And some are dead.

[Alfryd]

I love this. So much. It was a fantastic read, and I may as well have been staring at my screen screaming "YESYESYESYESYESYESYES!"

Thank you!

Sure, if you count running as fighting and war of the ancients lasted thousands of years...

No matter how you view the Draenei's actions, you can at least deduce that they are adept at fighting demons. The whole Exodar is basically an archive on demons, what they do and how you can defeat them.

In conjunction, the Night Elves must've had a minor demon problem because Demon Hunters were still actively trained. That, and satyrs are continually mentioned throughout their long vigil. So both the Draenei AND the Night Elves are, as much as you can conclude, rather adept in the field of fighting the Burning Legion.

Plus, as someone mentioned, both Humans and High Elves set up an order to combat the powers of Fel.

What can the Horde offer in return? Blood Elves must surely be good at fighting, or manipulating, demons. Forsaken might surprise us and have archives on demons too. However Orcs have only ever displayed a weakness for Fel, Tauren don't seem to come across as beings that can match the Burning Legion, and trolls/goblins I can't really comment on.

So true enough, the Alliance has possibly one saving grace in their lore in the fact that, by all predictions and logical reasoning, they will be the 'main' faction to lead the Army of Light against the Burning Legion (also note that Velen forsaw Anduin leading it, so).

[Verdugo]

also note that Velen forsaw Anduin leading it, so

so plot armor. Thank you.

[Alfryd]

so plot armor. Thank you.

(really belated reply, sorry. My internet went out for 2 weeks and I forgot about this thread until I was on Wowhead, and saw this http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=...ss-of-identity - )

What's your point though?

Plus judging by Blizzards past actions, the most obvious factions/races to lead something, usually don't. Was I the only one who was surprised that the Orcs lead the Horde against the Lich King? I genuinely thought the Forsaken/Blood Elves would definitely be acting as 'leaders' of that campaign, but nope. It was Orcs. Everything boils down to Blizzard failing to recognise that sometimes, Orcs/Humans simply don't make sense as the 'dominant' races. They're sacrificing their own logic and rationality to perpetuate the image of Humans v Orcs, when the player base does not want it.

But 5.3 spoilers are in, and Moira is finally getting some screen time along with the Dark Irons. And best of all, she seems to have her independence, so maybe Blizzard finally is listening.

[Deleted]

But 5.3 spoilers are in, and Moira is finally getting some screen time along with the Dark Irons. And best of all, she seems to have her independence, so maybe Blizzard finally is listening.

Guess only time will tell and we'll see how it goes.

[Trassk]

You know the mistake I felt they did with the latest thunder king patch? Well they gave blood elves some solid development as it was much needed, what they missed was being able to develop another alliance race that had not been developed. If they had worked the story around in some way they could have developed another race in the alliance they deserved some development, like maybe the dwarves, if they worked the story that the dwarves do something that interfers with the blood elves and the blood elves retaliate.
Or, I dunno, they could have worked up the night elf angle with what happened in darnassus with the blood elves and had the night elves and blood elves facing off.

Instead we just had more human lore with kirin tor and Jaina, and it missed a trick in this. I just find it boring seeing the percentage of lore from the alliance has to be human based, and even when its nothing to do with Varian and his exploits, its STILL human based with Jaina and dalaran.

[willtron]

While I'm always Horde at heart - I recently transfer to Alliance (PvP advantage yo!) Now I'm not a huge lore geek and for the most part I dont care, but it does feel very sterile playing Alliance, it's safe story telling.

My only thought it they don't want to make a whole Warlord thing of Varian and just have him as a Garrosh-Human counterpart; that being said, after SoO, ie next xpac, i think Alliances time will come.

Personally I'd love to see a breakaway human faction - like the Westfall humans, teamed up with maybe Redridge and Darkshire protesting in the streets of Stormwind. You choose a side for a couple of patches, Royals or Rebels (sensitive issue at the moment?) And ultimately you actually work for Anduin to help unthrone his father. No matter which faction - It just gives you different quests.

While Anduin is a bit of a pussy, I'd like to see him developed into something more brutal - if you can call priests that.

Either that or he'll break away, become neutral and work with the Naaru in the BL expansion and everything I just typed will never happen

Doubt they'll let him lead the Army of the Light AND be Human faction leader.

[Deleted]

You know the mistake I felt they did with the latest thunder king patch? Well they gave blood elves some solid development as it was much needed, what they missed was being able to develop another alliance race that had not been developed. If they had worked the story around in some way they could have developed another race in the alliance they deserved some development, like maybe the dwarves, if they worked the story that the dwarves do something that interfers with the blood elves and the blood elves retaliate.
Or, I dunno, they could have worked up the night elf angle with what happened in darnassus with the blood elves and had the night elves and blood elves facing off.

Instead we just had more human lore with kirin tor and Jaina, and it missed a trick in this. I just find it boring seeing the percentage of lore from the alliance has to be human based, and even when its nothing to do with Varian and his exploits, its STILL human based with Jaina and dalaran.

Agree and the problem as I see it is this expansion feels all about Jaina and the Humans.

Dalaran lore was good but having the Kirin Tor assault the Thunder isle was a mistake. I think they should have dispatched either the Sentinels, Draenei or a Gilnean division to the island, they all need lore and to be shown in a good light.

And as for the little patience scenario, I think it should have gone down Varian learning from Tyrande the virtue of patience (something he really used to lack) not the other way around.

[Deleted]

I really feel like Alliance is just there to be something that the horde player has to fight against.

Alliance stories are never done very well, and sometimes they are never done at all, see gilneas and it's lame "oh you finished gilneas and you want to fight the forsaken to victory or bitter end in silverpine and beyond? screw you, go in the woodlands and do help some fairyes"
It's really sad most of Worgen lore got to be explained in the Forsaken questing. JUST HOW RIDICULOUS IS THAT!?

[Deleted]

You know the mistake I felt they did with the latest thunder king patch? Well they gave blood elves some solid development as it was much needed, what they missed was being able to develop another alliance race that had not been developed. If they had worked the story around in some way they could have developed another race in the alliance they deserved some development, like maybe the dwarves, if they worked the story that the dwarves do something that interfers with the blood elves and the blood elves retaliate.
Or, I dunno, they could have worked up the night elf angle with what happened in darnassus with the blood elves and had the night elves and blood elves facing off.

Instead we just had more human lore with kirin tor and Jaina, and it missed a trick in this. I just find it boring seeing the percentage of lore from the alliance has to be human based, and even when its nothing to do with Varian and his exploits, its STILL human based with Jaina and dalaran.

Indeed. What I feel though is that they see there's a support for high elves. They don't want to push them as a playable race, but they want to give something to their fans, so they're giving these things like Jaina having Veressa by her side and so on, blood elf versus high elf most times. The problem is that, since they're not giving enough focus on the other playable races of the Alliance, they're making those players feel like Blizzard are focusing on races which don't even matter so much.