why I can't root for Blood Legion

[Azaile-]

these guys talk to each like they are pugs, i rage at my guild when they screw up but i still treat them like friends, or at least people i know vaguely.

[Sinthetik]

Being a leader requires you to sometimes say and do very difficult things. While i would NEVER personally talk to my raiders in the manner he speaks to them, there is a certain logic to why he does this.

1. They raid longer hours than most of us could even fathom. Between keeping alts up to date, ptr testing, probably a crapload of time just sittin in mumble strategizing/vids/etc, and recruiting, I would probably be on a very short fuse as well.

2. Sponsors expect these guys to be peforming at a level beyond anyone else. It would likely be very easy for them to drop 2 or 3 spots for one person playing at a sub-par level, and lose all of this. Not so hot to be World #7 vs World #1. Do you even know who world #7 is off the top of your head?

3. Often as a leader you have to make an example of someone, and often whether you are right or wrong (sometimes you know you are wrong) you have to set a precident as a leader. The moment you show your team that you will bend from the vision and direction you want your guild to go, is the moment you lose your authority.

Again, I wouldn't dream of treating anyone on my raid team this way, but in the position there in, I certainly understand why this happens. If you really listen to the audio in this clip, realize that the ENTIRE argument could have been diffused very simply. All that priest had to do was listen, not argue, and just let Rigg say what he needed to say. Bet this clip would have been about 30 seconds long at most if he had done that. Just shut up, let the guy blow his top, and move on.

[Ethas]

Nice video. Where can we watch the continuation? To be honest, if my tanks or dps were trying to insult me or my healing team, I would defend them and just shut those guys up by pointing them out their place. And this guy must be really checked by medics, since he can be the one shooting people at Walmart next time. No seriously, he needs medical help.

[OscaR]

Isn't there a point where you shut your mouth, show some humility and admit you where wrong? It's clear not everyone in this thread agrees with his leadership style and that's perfectly understandable... but it doesn't mean it's wrong.

He starts out fairly in control and doesn't really go berzerk until the kid back talks repeatedly.

How did the priest "back talk repeatedly"? Rigg said he didn't want that to happen then paused. The priest said ok, my bad and Rigg started screaming. How is that even back talk?

[Stino]

A good way to stop people like this from these kinds of tantrums is to simply open their blinds during the daytime, which will cause them to turn to dust.

[Deleted]

Isn't there a point where you shut your mouth, show some humility and admit you where wrong? It's clear not everyone in this thread agrees with his leadership style and that's perfectly understandable... but it doesn't mean it's wrong.

He starts out fairly in control and doesn't really go berzerk until the kid back talks repeatedly. Maybe people don't understand the entire context b/c they don't play priests but I do so allow me to shed some light onto the situation...

When a priest casts Smite or Holy Fire on a boss (those are offensive spells) they also heal a low raid member for a percentage of the damage done. Smite cast time is over a second and the healing it does is 50-60K or so. Best case scenario you're doing 40-50K HPS when you could be casting glyphed binding heal, Prayer of Healing, or blanketing the raid with Shields all of which will do over 100k HPS. The priest was CLEARLY doing it wrong and holding the group back. I don't see the problem with pointing out someones mistake when it's wasting 9 other peoples time. The shouting began purely due the priest refusing to admit his mistake (he was clearly sarcastic when saying "sorry it's been my fault this whole time") and back talking the raid leader.

Edit: Fluttershy beat me to it



None of the Blood Legion crew is required to be there. They've been going strong for over an expansion now so it would seem that his style is working, at least for the current roster they have.

Dude... This Riggnaros guy just ASSUMES that the priest was casting smite.

Here's the tooltip for holy fire: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=14914/holy-fire Keywords: Damage over time (7 seconds!); Instant.
Here's the tooltip for attonement: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=81749/atonement Keywords: When you deal damage with Holy fire.

So tell me again. How does this Riggnaros guy know if the priest was healing or not when the warlock died? He did NOT. He just assumed the priest was doing nothing but spamming damage. And when the priest tried to ask into what Riggnaros meant he goes completely aggressive.

[santrin]

Isn't there a point where you shut your mouth, show some humility and admit you where wrong? It's clear not everyone in this thread agrees with his leadership style and that's perfectly understandable... but it doesn't mean it's wrong.

He starts out fairly in control and doesn't really go berzerk until the kid back talks repeatedly. Maybe people don't understand the entire context b/c they don't play priests but I do so allow me to shed some light onto the situation...

When a priest casts Smite or Holy Fire on a boss (those are offensive spells) they also heal a low raid member for a percentage of the damage done. Smite cast time is over a second and the healing it does is 50-60K or so. Best case scenario you're doing 40-50K HPS when you could be casting glyphed binding heal, Prayer of Healing, or blanketing the raid with Shields all of which will do over 100k HPS. The priest was CLEARLY doing it wrong and holding the group back. I don't see the problem with pointing out someones mistake when it's wasting 9 other peoples time. The shouting began purely due the priest refusing to admit his mistake (he was clearly sarcastic when saying "sorry it's been my fault this whole time") and back talking the raid leader.

Edit: Fluttershy beat me to it



None of the Blood Legion crew is required to be there. They've been going strong for over an expansion now so it would seem that his style is working, at least for the current roster they have.

On top of all that this priest was also a major problem on most of the other fights they worked on. For the most part he would also talk back to Rig when he was causing issues for their raid group. All in all him flipping out like that probably came from a great deal of raid nights full of shit show type performance from the priest and the attitude he gave to Rig in the past.

[Vetis]

Isn't there a point where self respect comes into play and you say, "Fuck this I'm out go fuck yourself" and leave?

you'd think so, these people seem desperate to be in "one of the best guilds" regardless of how little share of any money they may be getting that they'll take any abuse. people saying its not just a game for them its like a job? bosses dont speak to people like that - if they do its because you let them. They cant fire you for walking out of being excessively shit on.

[Deleted]

Meh, the usual.
All love to Riggnaros for keeping us entertained!

[kamuimac]

Well ... He ain't in the Marines no more. WoW isn't life and death. It seems he has trouble adjusting to civilian life. Creating such a hostile work environment is a great way to lose your best people IMHO.

if that was really true that it really must be some kind of post traumatic stress thingy - some people who were to war just cant go back to normal life - he has his own little world hes living in and thats all - but i really dont feel sorry for people who treat others liek that - its all karma

[Deleted]

Guy he's talking with is an idiot, if you listened to the conversation you'd know why he's mad. And tbh I doubt he cares if you 'root' for their guild or not.

[Fluttershy]

He looked at recount.

>purplbbz
>smite
>minimum hit : 9k
>maximum hit : 90k
>average hit : 27k
>total damag done : 891k

He spent 50 seconds casting smite, a 1.4 second cast time spell that healed for 30k.

He also cast penance and holy fire quite abit, I'll assume for equally awful output.

To make matters worse, he picked mindbender, so he should not, under any circumstance be casting holy fire during a high damage situation, he doesn't even benefit from the "free cast and +3000mana" effect from the talent he skipped.

[THEORACLE64]

It's understandable why someone can get mad, but you can always get your point across without shouting or raging. If someone's healing is bad on several occasions, even after explaining what's going wrong, then just replace them.

[Syh]

The Priest was in fact bad. There's absolutely no denying that. But I really believe Rig handled this poorly.

I know a lot of people are saying that maybe he acted this way because he's used to going for world firsts. I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one. If he pulled this shit while trying to get world firsts he would effectively be wasting time that could have gone into an attempt. He would have wasted time. That would be very counter productive to their goal.

I believe a (much) better alternative would have been to simply kick/replace the individual who is under performing greatly as quickly and smoothly as possible. None of this bullshit. If a person is playing poorly replace them with somebody better. If they attempt to start any trouble after being kicked, temp ban them from vent (or whatever you use) and carry on. No stress, no bullshit.

There's no point in trying to make a bad player a good player in the middle of a raid. All you are doing is wasting time, it isn't going to happen. I wouldn't waste another attempt with that guy. Replace him and carry on.

[Amerrol]

Atonement is usable on Normal Primordius. On Heroic Primordius, the buff on the boss reducing damage taken is 75% instead of 35% (normal/LFR). This means that until you get 5 stacks of fully mutated, you will suffer a 75% penalty on Atonement.

So at the end of the day Rigg wasn't completely understanding how Disc works, but neither was the Priest (you can use it to stack Evangelism IF your raid isn't dying, but Holy Fire will not actually do any significant heals on H-Primordius). Unfortunately Rigg also has very good priests in his guild that will actually let him know if the Priest in raid is right or wrong.

The Priest himself was clueless.

Ah, you're right. I just listened to the audio, didn't see him pull the death log up. So yeah, the Priest was being dumb in this case. He should have Smited the adds instead. Rigg till could have handled that differently, especially since that looked like it was an alt or pug run. I mean the Priest had a point. Rigg wasn't giving him any advice, he was just bitching about damage and healing, without really understanding that Atonement isn't weak in general, it was just bad specifically because of what was happeneing on that boss.

[Baromega]

So you can't root for a group of 25+ top tier raiders because you think one of them is a tad overzealous in his raid leading?

[Deleted]

I always read sponsors, companies, etc... in fact they are getting a few mousepads and the officers get a new headset or keyboard from time to time... so no need to act like its anything mandatory to keep the sponsors. If their sponsors leave they just have to get 10 bucks from mum and dad to buy new mousepads.

[Chaosturn]

"screaming is good raid leadership"
Apparently so, if you're aiming for world second

[Airwaves]

I always have to laugh they always get a head start and a lead. Then they choke getting to the end. Every single raid. I am not sure why there RL hasn't be deposed of yet, he is the problem it is not that hard to see. You see other world first teams laughing and having fun even when they are going for world first. While BL seems like a depressed bunch of people. If they sounded all happy everyone would be in a good mood and they probably would get some more world first.

[Darkfriend]

"screaming is good raid leadership"
Apparently so, if you're aiming for world second

You've got carebear leadership, where no one is ever called out for mistakes, challenged to improve, or made accountable. You've got total rage where you yell at anyone for any mistake no matter how minor. The trick, as a raid leader, is to find a balance between making people accountable so they improve and so that everyone' time is not wasted, and not making people so mad they ignore you or leave.

As long as people aren't getting upset and leaving, who cares? Not everyone has soft sensitive skin.

I can't judge Rigg because I don' know the metrics of their raid. I don't know if its warranted or not.

The reason I don't call people out more in my raid for not being prepared, being late, doing poorly, etc, is because most of those I raid with are IRL friends whose friendship I value more than getting a better rank. It's why I prefer to raid with them than go for progression.

Some raids don't need to worry about that. Each case is different. You really can't judge. Especially if you're the average WoW raider. That is to sad, a baddie.