Have you noticed they usually release a boss that is mathematically unkillable?

[klogaroth]

It seems recently that bosses get tweaked before anyone can be sure of their status as mathematically unkillable, especially with the way that gear works now.

Unkillable bosses would require encounter breaking bugs or be so overtuned that it's obvious that even with BiS-pre-that-boss gear it would never fall.

In both of these cases the hotfixes normally arrive pretty quickly.


Tuning has been pretty decent for the majority of fights recently, and it makes logical sense to overtune a fight.
If you undertune a boss and loads of people kill it before you go in and change it then it's pretty harsh on the people who didn't kill it before the change. They're then left with less gear than the other guys to kill a harder boss next week.

[Dangg]

Kael'Thas
C'thun
Chromaggus w/o bug

[Heenk]

It is defined in itself. If the parameters of the game can not kill it in any combination of gameplay/classes/rotations/etc. then it is mathematically unkillable. Without going to recent examples, a blatant example makes it easy to undestand: imagine trying to kill level 90 bosses on level 60 gear, it is mathematically impossible.

Just as I thought, you have no idea what 'mathematically impossible' means. A boss with a 1 sec enrage timer and 10 billion health is unkillable in current gear, but that's not nearly the same thing as being mathematically impossible. What you actually mean is 'overtuned', 'unkillable in current gear' or something similar. No need to butcher mathematics to make your silly little point.

[Deleted]

IIRC Heroic Arthas 10m was "mathematically impossible" for an exclusively 10-m guild to kill for awhile. As in if a guild ran 10m and nothing else/higher it was impossible to kill Arthas. But it's been years so I could be wrong.

Wasn't it Resto Shaman/Druid, otherwise it was impossible? Your'e right anyway

[babo7000]

It's bound to happen. The devs themselves say that they can barely beat the encounters on normal. Tuning heroic follows a pattern, but is still at the end of the day a shot in the dark, so it's not hard to imagine them accidentally making a boss unkillable every so often, especially when it's the final boss and has a reputation to live up to.

[Mosotti]

Lich King Heroic was unkillable. They've used the 5% buff in the world first

[Myzou]

Wasn't one of the bosses in ToT unkillable unless you were in the best possible gear and executed things perfectly? Because it required an insane amount of DPS due to the mechanics being bugged? XD (the one that has the defense shield in heroic)

[SodiumChloride]

We have elite guilds like Method running through content in blues, so I would say things are a bit more complicated in WoW ...

But having mathematically unkillable bosses is normal in RPGs. You aren't going to be able to head to the last boss and killing him as a lvl 1 with a rusted sword.

[Deleted]

Yes, needing better gear than the one at first possible even if you are the best guild in the world, is part of the encounters being mathematically unkillable. By the way, my main argument is mainly a common sense one. Imagine you are Blizzard and you have made an encounter that ends the whole expansion "just killable", don't you realize that the tiniest coding mistake could have turned it into an easy tank and spank therefore you would be very likely inclined to overtune it for a few days to make sure the whole expansion doesn't go down the drain for a small coding error?

[Verain]

There's some confusion:

Unkillable with fully geared raid- This hasn't happened since Cthun I think.
Unkillable with gear any players actually have- This is a bigger problem, as the world first guilds have very little gear from the new tier to get them started. I don't think they "usually" do this though.

[MoanaLisa]

Yes, needing better gear than the one at first possible even if you are the best guild in the world, is part of the encounters being mathematically unkillable. By the way, my main argument is mainly a common sense one. Imagine you are Blizzard and you have made an encounter that ends the whole expansion "just killable", don't you realize that the tiniest coding mistake could have turned it into an easy tank and spank therefore you would be very likely inclined to overtune it for a few days to make sure the whole expansion doesn't go down the drain for a small coding error?

I'm genuinely curious. What's your point? And if it's a problem, perhaps you should say what you think a solution would be. The examples of killing a level 90 in level 60 gear are so absurd I have no idea what you're really trying to say. The common practice forever is that you work through the raid, improving your gear as you go along and at some point--other than bugged encounters and a couple of things from years ago--you should be able to summon the damage to defeat the final boss.

[lolec123]

first incranation of Imperial Vizier Zor'lok was unkillable, but Blizzard managed to fix boss in abou 2 or 3 fixes IIRC

[Zatetic]

Heroic Spine was unkillable.

They nerfed tendon health before BL, method or stars ever finished their progression on it. And even after that it was only possible with serious class stacking.

[Deleted]

There's some confusion:

Unkillable with fully geared raid- This hasn't happened since Cthun I think.
Unkillable with gear any players actually have- This is a bigger problem, as the world first guilds have very little gear from the new tier to get them started. I don't think they "usually" do this though.

You can't realistically tune a fight to be "mathematically unkillable" while the tuning is not WAAAAAY off. The reason is class stacking and tank vengeance and whatever. The obvious example is Yogg 0

[xanzul]

The most dire quagmire WoW could put itself into is to release an end boss that is killable in its hardest mode from day one. It comes to reason that they may be so scared that may happen, that they may always make at least 1 or 2 bosses intentionally unkillable, have in fact the real live guilds try to kill it and make sure no weak points are there because after all if it's "just killable" the most tiny mistake could make it "easily killable".

That only happened in vanilla/tbc due to bad game design and bugs. Blizzard has never done this purposely nor does it make any sense to do it. Games are meant to be played and beaten.

- - - Updated - - -

Why make the claim if you don't have any data to support it? Just checking MoP bosses, none of the end-raid bosses (Will of the Emperor, Grand Empress Shek'zeer, Sha of Fear, or Lei Shen) were nerfed (at all) prior to being defeated on heroic. Similarly, none of the other Cataclysm end-raid bosses (Nefarian, Cho'gall, Al'akir, or Madness of Deathwing) were nerfed prior to being defeated on heroic. Ragnaros is the single outlier any time within the past few years. Therefore your claim appears to be false.

Because on these forums facts have no place when it comes to agendas.

[rebecca191]

There's some confusion:

Unkillable with fully geared raid- This hasn't happened since Cthun I think.

I think the original version of Kael'thas that very few guilds saw was also unkillable. There were bizarre threat issues and the adds had more abilities. There was a video of some of it floating around at one point.

There's a pretty good argument that heroic Rag was not killable with the intended strategy (no tri force and having to rotate groups for the debuff).

[El_Diabl0]

Are you familiar with the concept of gear check bosses?

[Trakanonn]

I think they design end bosses that week 1 gear cannot kill (without bot like precision/timing).

[Matt0193]

Lich King Heroic was unkillable. They've used the 5% buff in the world first

Not quite. Paragon had several extremely close wipes before the buff came around. They, along with others as well no doubt, would've had the kill within 1-2 lockouts if they were given unlimited attempts. It was definitely killable, it just required perfection to pull it off.

[Deleted]

The situation is so predictable lately. "Next to final boss takes a week more at least". "Last boss will DEFINITELY not take only 2 or 3 weeks".