Nerf arms warriors thread

[meathead]

Even if you play a warrior and go into a thread saying they are a bit too strong, the warrior bandwagon jumps on you immediately.
Deep wounds is way too strong atm. I stated this in the warrior forums and Mushhead or w/e his name is started accusing me of playing "an op mage".
I think most warrior attitudes are the cause of a lot of the hate they receive.

you again -ok

for the 3rd time-locks and mages and a few other classes had all three of there specs out dpsing the entire warrior CLASS in both pvp and pve the last few months.where the the out cry then?your last posts said mages are underpowered,i said show me the #'s show me where mages were the worst pvp class in game like warriors are more then they are good.yet you failed to post any #'s,you just continue to run your mouth.

are arms warriors #1 dps in pvp and pve?=no.are raids stacking arms warriors for single target fights = no.arms is not even close to #1 pve dps,that alone should tell you other classes can do more damage/scale better.so you think they are op'ed because they are not at the bottom of the pvp latter anymore right?let me ask you this are monks or warriors more face roll atm?monks got buffed to shit how long ago?what viable specs do warrior have in pvp,no ask yourself that same question for every other class in game.every other class has to viable specs except for warriors.there is a thread on this very topic going on atm.

warriors are coming off another season of being the worst class in pvp again.think about that,it happened again,it happens over and over again.yet every other class like mages,locks,pally,priests, continues to have have #1 spots season in and season out year after year.yet you still want warriors nerf because you do not see as many mages in pvp and you did last season.what ranking?what bracket?link your profile like i asked you last time.maybe arms will be wanted to rbgs,thats a huge change in itself.the one and only pvp spec warriors have has never really been wanted to rbgs since cata,lmfao.

here is part of my quote from the other thread-think about it-if arms is bad warriors are not wanted in ranked pvp.while other classes just switch specs and have fun.

"lmfao-i find it funny that you post that warriors "like always only have one viable pvp spec" and slip in they might be OP'ed.lets spin that around shall we?since warriors only have "one pvp spec like always" maybe they are under powered?and arms should always be op'ed and perform better then any other spec in game,because you know every other class has more then 1 viable pvp spec except for warriors."

[Verain]

Warrior timeline of each x-pack is to start OP, get nerfed to nothingness, get a couple of small buffs and then get a tonne more buffs to finish the expansion OP again.

That's how MoP went. In vanilla they were just wildly OP if they had a purple weapon. In BC, they were OP for the middle seasons, but started out not that great and ended pretty balanced. In Lich King they definitely didn't start OP. And in Cata they were far too weak at the end of the expac.

So your "timeline" is just for MoP, and it's being amended as you go.

[Gardrenn]

I was talking with a long time warrior buddy of mine and we talked at length about what is giving warriors so much uptime. What we agreed upon was this, bladestorm should be able to be disarmed again. You shouldn't be able to intervene your banners (we both think if you want to use intervene to gap close a target you should have to work with a teammate, and have them at the target ahead of time, or sit the root/slow). And leap needs to have a 45 or 60 second cooldown with the glyph or the glyph needs to be removed.

What we didn't agree on was I believe mass spell reflect should replace the original (with the originals cooldown), he thinks having both is needed for surviving caster cleaves, as a long time caster I feel having both is too much like having four interrupts when paired with pummel and disrupting (perhaps combining disrupting and pummel would be better instead of the reflects). I don't think you should be able to bladestorm out of landed cc, he believes it's a skill use like deathing a sheep/blind. He may be right I haven't played a warrior in pvp enough to know how hard it is to do. And he would like to see double time totally replaced with something new or the cooldown on the charges increased 5-10 seconds, I don't really have any opinion on this.

tl; dr increased cd on leap, no intervening banners, and bladestorm disarmable.

[meathead]

That's how MoP went. In vanilla they were just wildly OP if they had a purple weapon. In BC, they were OP for the middle seasons, but started out not that great and ended pretty balanced. In Lich King they definitely didn't start OP. And in Cata they were far too weak at the end of the expac.

So your "timeline" is just for MoP, and it's being amended as you go.

warriors use to start every x-pac weak and ended up very powerful.this was because of how rage worked back then,but its been normalized since.despite what some people want you to think warriors do not scale that well because of the rage change and gcd's.the trend for warriors the last few x-pacs has been to start strong and end weak.

there is even a few blue posts on this very topic on the front page.

[Verain]

Here's what you SHOULD do as a lock: warrior charges, you already coiled/shadow fury'd/horrored him.

So the moment a warrior charges a lock, the lock needs to blow a cooldown with at least double the cooldown of the charge. Sounds legit.

Warrior charges again, you howl of terrored, warrior zerker rages, you blow ONE defensive IF you need it, 6 seconds pass, you fear again, warrior trinkets and now you have him where you want him.

Why does the warrior in your story trinket a 4 second fear? And how did the lock CAST that fear, given that he already blew both of his CDs uselessly and has a hard-cast fear as his only option?

[meathead]

I was talking with a long time warrior buddy of mine and we talked at length about what is giving warriors so much uptime. What we agreed upon was this, bladestorm should be able to be disarmed again. You shouldn't be able to intervene your banners (we both think if you want to use intervene to gap close a target you should have to work with a teammate, and have them at the target ahead of time, or sit the root/slow). And leap needs to have a 45 or 60 second cooldown with the glyph or the glyph needs to be removed.

What we didn't agree on was I believe mass spell reflect should replace the original (with the originals cooldown), he thinks having both is needed for surviving caster cleaves, as a long time caster I feel having both is too much like having four interrupts when paired with pummel and disrupting (perhaps combining disrupting and pummel would be better instead of the reflects). I don't think you should be able to bladestorm out of landed cc, he believes it's a skill use like deathing a sheep/blind. He may be right I haven't played a warrior in pvp enough to know how hard it is to do. And he would like to see double time totally replaced with something new or the cooldown on the charges increased 5-10 seconds, I don't really have any opinion on this.

tl; dr increased cd on leap, no intervening banners, and bladestorm disarmable.

what caster class do you play?you can hit a warrior from 40 yards away,if you and your team mates play like you should a warrior might not even get to use one pummel on you.you do that spell refeclt use to have a shorter cd then it does now right?i think it was 10sec years ago,now add in all the instance casts casters have these days and you might be able to see why a warrior need to reflects.


also casters have been raping wow's pvp and yes that includes rbgs since they came out.how many season has arms be in high demand in rbgs?think about that and you will see what classes needed buffs and witch ones needed to be nerfed.

- - - Updated - - -

So the moment a warrior charges a lock, the lock needs to blow a cooldown with at least double the cooldown of the charge. Sounds legit.



Why does the warrior in your story trinket a 4 second fear? And how did the lock CAST that fear, given that he already blew both of his CDs uselessly and has a hard-cast fear as his only option?

warriors are supposed to counter locks or do you not know this?its been a while since warriors could do that and im sure your use to face rolling every warrior you see.so next time remember what i just said.its kinda like when warriors complain about how bad mages counter then,and people say working as intended and l2p.

pvp with a mage so he can kill the warriors for you .

[Felarion]

I think the buff was needed, arms is still low compared to fury in single target fights,however it shines on aoe fights (we got 2 in this content, galakras and spoils, protectors are tactic depened and dark shamans is generally melle unfriendly fight. So it's nothink great). I bet arms will get new design in next expac as it is very boring.

I don't care about pvp tbh but i'll keep saying this. They should make every spell to work like colossus smash, works different on mobs and players. Problem solved and way easier in ters of ballance purpose i think.

[Verain]

I think the buff was needed, arms is still low compared to fury in single target fights,however it shines on aoe fights (we got 2 in this content, galakras and spoils, protectors are tactic depened and dark shamans is generally melle unfriendly fight. So it's nothink great). I bet arms will get new design in next expac as it is very boring.

Not relevant. PvP Thread.

I don't care about pvp tbh but

Thread title is "Nerf arms warriors". Thread forum is "PvP".

[Punisher069]

Not relevant. PvP Thread. Thread title is "Nerf arms warriors". Thread forum is "PvP".

Any buffs/nerfs to warriors affect both sides of the game.

[Hand Banana]

That's just utter bullshit. EVERY melee can and does move faster than melee. EVERY melee has better GRIP than warriors. Every melee is able to get away from a warrior.

EVERY ranged has either a heavy escape mechanism OR great passive damage reduction. MOST ranged are able to ensure minimal warrior uptime. If you're a hunter, mage, balance druid and can't keep a warrior off of you then you have a shit ton of learning before you even belong in this thread. If you're an affliction warlock or elemental shaman and can't time your defensive cds around when a warrior is going to hit you hard (it's pretty damn obvious if you know what the colossus smash icon looks like) then you have some learning to do. The ONLY ranged that should have problems with warriors is spriest. Yes, I just said affliction warlocks should beat warriors; a good demo or destro lock can flawless a warrior 9 times out of 10, affliction has very similar tools and if you don't know how to use them properly you better get started on some learning.

And for every person outlining some bullshit of "lock casts, warrior pummels, lock casts again warrior charges, lock casts again warrior disrupting shouts" etc. etc. I swear that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's like the lock doesn't have so much cc it makes mage cc look weak, like it doesn't have spell lockout immunities, like it doesn't have the best escape mechanism in the game and like it doesn't have by far the most AND best defensive cds in the game.

Here's what you SHOULD do as a lock: warrior charges, you already coiled/shadow fury'd/horrored him. Warrior charges again, you howl of terrored, warrior zerker rages, you blow ONE defensive IF you need it, 6 seconds pass, you fear again, warrior trinkets and now you have him where you want him. By the next fear/other cc the warrior will be a sitting duck; if you haven't been able to time your cc's then that's on you and yet you still have plenty of other defensives to survive. Notice how you haven't used a succubus for even more cc here, nor have you used your portal or your gateway. And this is just 1v1, when it comes to group arena play, you have your dots spread and a partner to help keep the warrior off you while you can now instead cc the shit out of his partner. Nevermind that even affliction lock demon souled burst can burn BOTH dotted targets down in under 10 seconds.

That was beautiful. No need to even mention blood horror and the fact that locks have 3 instant ccs on different drs (4 if you count spell lock but has no effect on wars, unless you realize you can blank cs a warrior and he can't disrupting shout you) as well as 2 teleportation type moves to escape the gap closers, or the fact that the warriors 0 selfhealing until nearly dead is being destroyed by lock dots. So tired of everyone going on and on about warrior abilities but forget how many classes have similarly stupid stuff. How many warriors are seriously using charge or leap charge to stop your casts? You are clearly not kiting properly if he can use a gap closer as an interrupt.

[Flaks]

So the moment a warrior charges a lock, the lock needs to blow a cooldown with at least double the cooldown of the charge. Sounds legit.



Why does the warrior in your story trinket a 4 second fear? And how did the lock CAST that fear, given that he already blew both of his CDs uselessly and has a hard-cast fear as his only option?

Because if the warrior doesn't blow that trinket he'll be sitting a full length fear with all dots ticking with the lock malefic grasping and with demon soul up. That hurts. And with how fear is broken right now there's no guarantee it'll break before it's full 8 seconds are up even if it drops the warrior from 100-dead.

The lock can easily cast a fear by either using his interrupt immunity or simply gating away or coe kiting if necessary. Nevermind that he'll probably have his one of his other instant cc's back up by this time either way. The warrior has a few options here: he'll shockwave, blow his own fear, attempt to go balls out on damage or just take it; ALL of these scenarios end up the same way for the warrior: with him dead. Every single one of the warrior's counters can be countered twice over by the lock toolkit via the warlock blowing one of his other myriad defensives, utilizing any of his other talents to peel the warrior, going HAM with his damage while the warrior does the same with his, not being a retard and actually thinking outside the box for things like popping out a succy or voidwalker if extremely necessary, reading the warrior for the potential reflects etc.

The one thing that's pissed me off all expansion, or hell, since the introduction of arenas, has been lock QQ. The class has literally never ever ever ever been mediocre let alone weak in rated play. And now it has more tools than ever and while it was right up there with hunters and warriors in 5.0 with how broken demo was, it never really got brought in line. It still has the most utility of any spec/class out there with defensive cds that make tanks envious. Oh and I guess there's the extra talented trinket too if you don't have enough crutches in your class.

I'm not saying warlocks are op. But when a class claims that another is op when it itself is doing exceptionally well, continues to do so and happens to be the one that's supposed to be hard countered by the "op warriors" but still happens to come out on top 1v1 then there's something wrong with peoples' claims. And with all that said, I'm more than willing to outline how every single other arena viable spec can hand an arms warrior's ass to himself in a 1v1 environment let alone in group play where the problem is compounded when you're versing multiple players who actually know how to handle warriors.

And I haven't even began to mention the "masters" level techniques to shit on a warrior ergo 6-9 yard kiting. Yes, it still exists along with max ranging a warrior along with jump charging (yes, it still works even after the "fix") along with clutch reactions on movement/cc.

While I did my fair share of arenas on PTR you know what I did the most? Dueling. And you know what I did with that? I taught myself the best ways on how to beat other players with my warrior. And EVERY SINGLE TIME I could outline very very clearly where the other player of whatever class messed up. And more often than not I told them that they did this or that thing wrong and once that was fixed there wasn't a single way in hell that I, or most if not any other warrior, could manage to beat them. Because when push comes to shove, other classes have more ways to handle warriors than warriors do to handle other classes.

[PPN]

This post was now long enough, plz nerf the shoit out of them finally. CBA with stupid faceroll anymore.

"OH LOOK IM A WARRIOR, I PRESS BUTTONS"

Charge stun-shockwave-disrupting shout-pummel-reflect-stormbolt-fear

then 2 ways of free yourself of cc (trinket and berserk)

Fucking 7 ways to interrupt you and 2 cc breaker... i guess i even forgot something ????

BLizzard really? Some classe have 1 trinket, 1 interrupt and 1 cc!!!! WTF PLZ

Then when u maybe do the sick omg cc chain then u have shield wall and 2nd wind omg, its more like a Raid Boss then an arena enemy.

We saw the crap long enough, something needs to be done

[Coraulten]

This post was now long enough, plz nerf the shoit out of them finally. CBA with stupid faceroll anymore.

"OH LOOK IM A WARRIOR, I PRESS BUTTONS"

Charge stun-shockwave-disrupting shout-pummel-reflect-stormbolt-fear

then 2 ways of free yourself of cc (trinket and berserk)

Fucking 7 ways to interrupt you and 2 cc breaker... i guess i even forgot something ????

BLizzard really? Some classe have 1 trinket, 1 interrupt and 1 cc!!!! WTF PLZ

Then when u maybe do the sick omg cc chain then u have shield wall and 2nd wind omg, its more like a Raid Boss then an arena enemy.

We saw the crap long enough, something needs to be done

Your post is way over the top. Just because something is a bit over the top does not mean it should nurfed into the ground.

My opinion: Nurf Deep wounds, compensate maybe by some passive ArP? Have Shout replace pummel. Put stormbolt on same tier as shockwave and move bladestorm to last tier.

[Hand Banana]

then 2 ways of free yourself of cc (trinket and berserk)

Fucking 7 ways to interrupt you and 2 cc breaker... i guess i even forgot something ????

BLizzard really? Some classe have 1 trinket, 1 interrupt and 1 cc!!!! WTF PLZ

Then when u maybe do the sick omg cc chain then u have shield wall and 2nd wind omg, its more like a Raid Boss then an arena enemy.

We saw the crap long enough, something needs to be done

Please enlighten me as to what class has only 1 trinket, 1 interrupt and 1 cc. Dks? O wait, 4 trinkets and 5 ways to interrupt you and 4 of those are ranged.

Lets not forget all of a warriors "cc" (interrupts are not cc) is 4 seconds or lower with the exception of the aoe fear on a fairly long cd, and are all melee with the exception of stormbolt which if taken the warrior essentially loses a dps cd. Thats what is bugging me about people complaining about warriors, shit like "OMG he bloodstormed me then stunned me then rooted me then disrupted me?!?" when he cant fucking do any of that shit together since its all talent choices. Going full fuck damage means you get no stuns outside of chargestun. Going stun happy means your damage is gimped.

[PPN]

Please enlighten me as to what class has only 1 trinket, 1 interrupt and 1 cc. Dks? O wait, 4 trinkets and 5 ways to interrupt you and 4 of those are ranged.

Lets not forget all of a warriors "cc" (interrupts are not cc) is 4 seconds or lower with the exception of the aoe fear on a fairly long cd, and are all melee with the exception of stormbolt which if taken the warrior essentially loses a dps cd. Thats what is bugging me about people complaining about warriors, shit like "OMG he bloodstormed me then stunned me then rooted me then disrupted me?!?" when he cant fucking do any of that shit together since its all talent choices. Going full fuck damage means you get no stuns outside of chargestun. Going stun happy means your damage is gimped.

I play a SP. I think its a good designed class.

I have 1 silence, i have 1 fear which are just press abutton abilities. For the fear you already need to be in position tho.
Then i have psyfiend (DR+delay) or roots (need to be used already smart to bring some good result out of it).
I have my 1 trinket, thats its!
I have a 2nd silence/disarm with psychic horror (i like the idea of that one, you sacrifice dmg for cc/peel/reduce dmg).

So by the time i used all my shit to reduce the inc dmg the warrior barely used berserk and trinket and shits on me...then he starts to chain his 5 interrupts and stuns while i wait for all my stuff to come back from a long cd. I mean berserk has the same cd as psychic scream, great...

[Yvaelle]

Please enlighten me as to what class has only 1 trinket, 1 interrupt and 1 cc. Dks? O wait, 4 trinkets and 5 ways to interrupt you and 4 of those are ranged.

Lets not forget all of a warriors "cc" (interrupts are not cc) is 4 seconds or lower with the exception of the aoe fear on a fairly long cd, and are all melee with the exception of stormbolt which if taken the warrior essentially loses a dps cd. Thats what is bugging me about people complaining about warriors, shit like "OMG he bloodstormed me then stunned me then rooted me then disrupted me?!?" when he cant fucking do any of that shit together since its all talent choices. Going full fuck damage means you get no stuns outside of chargestun. Going stun happy means your damage is gimped.

I can't think of any classes with only 1 CC, but priests only have 1 trinket, and no interrupts (silence is only an interrupt in pve - and only shadowpriests have it of course). The only baseline CC we have is Psy Scream (which almost everyone has trinkets against), with the choice of either a root, a second fear, or mind control. But ya, priests only have 1 trinket and 0 interrupts.

[Deleted]

I LOVE how everybody can and does see that arms warriors are insanely overpowered at the moment and Blizzard is like: "so...a class in our game makes the majority of our customers mad...what can we do...ehm...dunno...ehm...maybe...ehm no...ehm well we could...or maybe not...ehm...I guess it's fixed then!...let's have some beer because we just solved a problem, didn't we folks?...we didn't? oh well...honestly? I don't give rats ass so...cheers!"

this is what Blizzard is doing. I'm pretty sure this is what they are doing right now.

[Sin Cara]

you again -ok

for the 3rd time-locks and mages and a few other classes had all three of there specs out dpsing the entire warrior CLASS in both pvp and pve the last few months.where the the out cry then?your last posts said mages are underpowered,i said show me the #'s show me where mages were the worst pvp class in game like warriors are more then they are good.yet you failed to post any #'s,you just continue to run your mouth.

are arms warriors #1 dps in pvp and pve?=no.are raids stacking arms warriors for single target fights = no.arms is not even close to #1 pve dps,that alone should tell you other classes can do more damage/scale better.so you think they are op'ed because they are not at the bottom of the pvp latter anymore right?let me ask you this are monks or warriors more face roll atm?monks got buffed to shit how long ago?what viable specs do warrior have in pvp,no ask yourself that same question for every other class in game.every other class has to viable specs except for warriors.there is a thread on this very topic going on atm.

warriors are coming off another season of being the worst class in pvp again.think about that,it happened again,it happens over and over again.yet every other class like mages,locks,pally,priests, continues to have have #1 spots season in and season out year after year.yet you still want warriors nerf because you do not see as many mages in pvp and you did last season.what ranking?what bracket?link your profile like i asked you last time.maybe arms will be wanted to rbgs,thats a huge change in itself.the one and only pvp spec warriors have has never really been wanted to rbgs since cata,lmfao.

here is part of my quote from the other thread-think about it-if arms is bad warriors are not wanted in ranked pvp.while other classes just switch specs and have fun.

"lmfao-i find it funny that you post that warriors "like always only have one viable pvp spec" and slip in they might be OP'ed.lets spin that around shall we?since warriors only have "one pvp spec like always" maybe they are under powered?and arms should always be op'ed and perform better then any other spec in game,because you know every other class has more then 1 viable pvp spec except for warriors."

I never said casters were underpowered. I stated that I see way less mages in arena and that I enjoy that.
You're just not very bright, but for the record, I play a warrior too and still think we're a bit too good right now =)

[Knolan]

Wanna see the numbers? (players over 2.2k on 3s):

Warrior Arms 15.4 % (112)
Priest Holy 13.2 % (96)
Mage Frost 10.3 % (75)
Shaman Restoration 9.9 % (72)
Warlock Affliction 6.0 % (44)
Death Knight Unholy 5.1 % (37)
Druid Restoration 4.3 % (31)
Druid Feral 4.0 % (29)
Rogue Subtlety 3.8 % (28)
Paladin Holy 3.8 % (28)
Priest Shadow 3.7 % (27)
Hunter Marksmanship 3.7 % (27)
Hunter Survival 3.2 % (23)
Shaman Elemental 3.0 % (22)
Shaman Enhancement 2.5 % (18)

On total class representation the WL is 7% and the warrior is 15%.

It has 50% more representation than the second best DPS. I wonder how many % of top players need to be a warrior so that Flasks admits that his class is OP...

[Deleted]

Wanna see the numbers? (players over 2.2k on 3s):

Warrior Arms 15.4 % (112)
Priest Holy 13.2 % (96)
Mage Frost 10.3 % (75)
Shaman Restoration 9.9 % (72)
Warlock Affliction 6.0 % (44)
Death Knight Unholy 5.1 % (37)
Druid Restoration 4.3 % (31)
Druid Feral 4.0 % (29)
Rogue Subtlety 3.8 % (28)
Paladin Holy 3.8 % (28)
Priest Shadow 3.7 % (27)
Hunter Marksmanship 3.7 % (27)
Hunter Survival 3.2 % (23)
Shaman Elemental 3.0 % (22)
Shaman Enhancement 2.5 % (18)

On total class representation the WL is 7% and the warrior is 15%.

It has 50% more representation than the second best DPS. I wonder how many % of top players need to be a warrior so that Flasks admits that his class is OP...

Prepare for a wall of QQ and bad arguments "proving" warriors are bad.

The stats are clear but clueless people will never see beyond their own skill...