Mythical level - 20man

[Daerio]

That's not false actually. Cata allowing people to choose which size they raided in saw the demise of hundreds of 25 man guilds simply most of their better players chose to go 10 man. Feel free to shout out how false that is

In the post you quoted, right above that, I explained why that's false. More people playing 10 man doesn't mean more people prefer 10 man.

[Bloodletters]

LOL at FordStallion. 10 man heroic try hard guilds are a VERY small portion of the raiding community. 25 man heroic guilds are as well but Blizzard clearly favors them, sorry.

[Deleted]

In the post you quoted, right above that, I explained why that's false. More people playing 10 man doesn't mean more people prefer 10 man.

Because they all secretly prefer to raid 25s and get hold back by the terrible tyrrany that are the current 10s?

Bitch please.

[ChristopherHansen]

Stop arguing over 10v25 blizzard has spoken loud and clear 10 is easier and HARDER to create complex mechanics for because of this it's dead. Get over it and adapt or die.

[Daerio]

Because they all secretly prefer to raid 25s and get hold back by the terrible tyrrany that are the current 10s?

Bitch please.

I'll quote it, since apparently you missed it.

That's the point, really. Do you think that's what they should have to do to accommodate for 10 man? What about mechanics where they can't just add the MC crystal? Why?

Also, I don't think the "pure" 10 man hardcore raider is in the majority in any sort of way. The vast majority of raiders, I think, will just raid what is easier. 10 man is easier. That's what they raid, and that's why the 'majority' of guilds are 10 man. So, why should Blizzard "protect" your 10 man raid, when you are the minority, and they've determined it isn't worth the development time and restriction to enable you to do your own raid size? Why should 20 man mythic raiding be restricted by trying to be "equal" to 10 man, which it can't be?

I think raiders will prefer to raid a more mechanically interesting boss. If going to 20 man format means funner, better, different, varied bosses - then that's what people are going to want. Balancing 10/25 prevents that. Do you really think everyone in a 10 man guild is just going to quit now?

Bitch, please.

[Deleted]

LOL at FordStallion. 10 man heroic try hard guilds are a VERY small portion of the raiding community. 25 man heroic guilds are as well but Blizzard clearly favors them, sorry.

872 25man guilds have downed Immerseus hc in SoO.
4703 10man guilds have downed Immerseus hc in SoO.

--> 21800 25man hc raiders downing the first Boss in SoO
--> 47030 10man hc raiders downing the first Boss in SoO

These numbers are from todays wowprogress.

[Deleted]

How is removing 5 players on par with recruiting 10 new ones?

Never heard of people leaving guilds because they were dropped from raids and dragging their guild friends into unnecesary drama over raid spots? I've been to two guilds that have disbanded because of this and there have been many other cases like these.

Considering how butthurt people today are over a game I'd say removing 5 players is waaaaaaaaaaaay more difficult than recruiting 10 new ones. At least new recruits can learn how to play eventualy, dropped members will sometimes go to great lenghts just to fuck their ex-guild up.

[glycerethe]

No. Mythic is the current 'Heroic', but is limited to 20people.

What is Paragon going to do? Disband?

Paragon is now going to have to carry 10 lesser raiders compared to their elite 10 team, thus giving a huge advantage to Method and co.

The funny thing is Method and other 25man hardcore teams will have to reduce their size, going to cause some drama to 25m guilds I'm sure.


It's okay to shed 25man into 20man because 3 b-res in 25man and 30% more loot is lame, but I have no idea why they need to remove 10man end game, it's just not right.

[Bloodletters]

872 25man guilds have downed Immerseus hc in SoO.
4703 10man guilds have downed Immerseus hc in SoO.

--> 21800 25man hc raiders downing the first Boss in SoO
--> 47030 10man hc raiders downing the first Boss in SoO

These numbers are from todays wowprogress.

Interesting. That's a VERY small percentage of the WoW community. If you are confused as to why Blizz favors a bigger raiding guild format, may I refer you to the events of the Blizzcon event this weekend.

[Deleted]

Having to drop 5 guild mates/friends that you raided with as 25 for 3 expansions now, that you will do the "new Normal" with, to be forced to go as 20 is a bad idea.

[Deleted]

I'll quote it, since apparently you missed it.



I think raiders will prefer to raid a more mechanically interesting boss. If going to 20 man format means funner, better, different, varied bosses - then that's what people are going to want. Balancing 10/25 prevents that. Do you really think everyone in a 10 man guild is just going to quit now?

Bitch, please.

Why not people not quit? Are they going to remove the unsub buttons?

It doesn't matter how mechanically interesting a boss is when you're stuck with people you don't want to in a format you have very little liking for.

[Daerio]

Why not people not quit? Are they going to remove the unsub buttons?

It doesn't matter how mechanically interesting a boss is when you're stuck with people you don't want to in a format you have very little liking for.

If you can't find 19 other people in the world that play WoW that you can get along with, then the problem is you.

[Deleted]

If you can't find 19 other people in the world that play WoW that you can get along with, then the problem is you.

Except it's not the world. It's actually very small pool to choose from. You can like the majority of the people in the guild and hate a couple of others. The chances of disliking certain people in the guild increases quite a lot when forced to go 20 or 25 man.

[Deleted]

I think raiders will prefer to raid a more mechanically interesting boss. If going to 20 man format means funner, better, different, varied bosses - then that's what people are going to want.

Only thing is: 20man format doesn't provide funner, better, different or more varied bosses. It just provides for more social drama, organizational nightmares, and less individual importance since everyone can just drown in a raidcooldown-soaked environment. Its SHITTIER RAIDING.

[lappee]

If you can't find 19 other people in the world that play WoW at the same level as you and speak the same language as you that you can be friends with, then the problem is having to find too many people.

Dont worry, i fixed it for you

[Daerio]

Only thing is: 20man format doesn't provide funner, better, different or more varied bosses. It just provides for more social drama, organizational nightmares, and less individual importance since everyone can just drown in a raidcooldown-soaked environment. Its SHITTIER RAIDING.

Again, that's your opinion, and I would say the majority doesn't agree. Blizzard also doesn't agree. Since they do the raid development and design, I feel like they know better than you do about what mechanics they've had to limit because of 10 man. Who knows what kind of mechanics they've come up, and couldn't implement, to facilitate casual "I don't want to organize anything" 10 mans?

Maybe stick to angry birds.

Except it's not the world. It's actually very small pool to choose from. You can like the majority of the people in the guild and hate a couple of others. The chances of disliking certain people in the guild increases quite a lot when forced to go 20 or 25 man.

You don't have to like everyone, you just have to be able to get along. Maybe it's a good practice for real life.

Don't worry though, after all this complaining, I'm sure you'll eventually realize how much easier it will be to find a 20 man guild of like-minded players, since that's what everyone will be doing - rather than splitting the playerbase up into 10s and 25s.

[Lanaiya]

Mythic raiding is a huge mistake. As a 10 man heroic raider, I like the smaller atmosphere of my team, I have no interest in raiding with 20 people. Currently we can be competitive as far as progression goes in heroic mode. But making this mythic mode the new heroic, and then making it a mandatory 20 man raid, you're FORCING us to either get those 20 people or be screwed over. Even if we wanted to raid in a 20 man group, there's the issue of finding 10 more people that are any kind of decent. Especially at the end of an expansion most of the people looking to join a group are going to be those who haven't played in awhile. We have 12 people on our roster who are good raiders, and we are working our way through the current content (at 9/14 H currently), but we do not want to worry about finding people and trying them out while doing the current content. The entire situation is just telling 10 man raiders to go screw ourselves.

[Deleted]

You don't have to like everyone, you just have to be able to get along. Maybe it's a good practice for real life.

Don't worry though, after all this complaining, I'm sure you'll eventually realize how much easier it will be to find a 20 man guild of like-minded players, since that's what everyone will be doing - rather than splitting the playerbase up into 10s and 25s.

The difference being this is a game and ultimately I get to choose who I wish to interact with, real life does not give you that option quite often.

So easy when many 10 man HC guilds are struggling to survive as it is.

[Bloodletters]

Its not only my opinion, its the observable fact if you would care to look at the numbers. Which I know you don't, so just continue to live in lala-land and be a fanboi for whatever retarded idea comes out of Blizzards ass.

Your analysis of the numbers makes you look like a downy idiot. You neither have the mental capacity nor care to understand the numbers in their proper context.

[ChristopherHansen]

Its not only my opinion, its the observable fact if you would care to look at the numbers. Which I know you don't, so just continue to live in lala-land and be a fanboi for whatever retarded idea comes out of Blizzards ass.

Heroic immersus is heroic raiding??? No its a glorified normal and an easy one at that. The fact of the matter is REAL heroic guilds are generally 25 man Malkorok a fairly easy heroic has 962 10man kills and 362 25 and the gap gets even closer until 25man actually out numbers 10 even though you have 3 times as many raiders in 25 man guilds.