[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Keyboard Champion]

I've always enjoyed the BM experience in PvE, so I'm certainly looking forward to the expansion. To me, figuring out how to get the pet to do what I want, despite the AI limitations, has been a challenge rather than a hassle.

People are complaining about MM and SV not being quite what they've expected. But I think the changes that make them enjoyable again are small (e.g. the Lock and Load mechanics), and as long as we have some people rationally explaining the problems to the devs without exaggerating to the point the devs think hunters are lying to make their class overpowered, we should get positive change on those specs soon (whether in Beta/PTR or shortly after Live).

The current numbers are not indicative of where we are likely to be. The mechanics of BM seem fine. Hunters will at least be playable as BM in PvE. MM is also likely to be playable and challenging with the new mastery (i.e. each boss could require some extra investigation to figure out how you can keep your mastery up, despite movement requirements from the boss), and I'm of course not talking about PvP. I have no idea where we'll sit on PvP, but I don't PvP so that's not a concern of mine whatsoever.

I always found the Focus Fire mechanic to be clunky.

[Effinhunter]

I always found the Focus Fire mechanic to be clunky.

I guess I've honestly never understood what people meant by "clunky." Do you mean that it has too many moving parts (i.e., you have to track your pet's acquisition of Frenzy and understand when it is best to use it)?

I'm the type of gamer who appreciates the minutiae--the small things you can do to jump ahead of other hunters and other dps in your raid. I don't want my rotation dumbed down to two buttons for max dps. I want to watch procs. I want to keep an eye on my pet, and figure out how to maximize my own positioning for max dps. I want to understand how cooldowns interact with each other and plan it out when possible. To me, that's fun. Pressing a single button after you see a buff reach 5 stacks and when you are safely out of Beastial Wrath (i.e., Focus Fire) doesn't seem "clunky" to me. It just seems like one more thing to watch, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, imo.

[Arcanimus]

I guess I've honestly never understood what people meant by "clunky." Do you mean that it has too many moving parts (i.e., you have to track your pet's acquisition of Frenzy and understand when it is best to use it)?

Its clunky in that its a dps gain to not use it in many circumstances, and at low gear levels.

[Azortharion]

Not a significant DPS increase..

Not at all.

[Effinhunter]

FF usage tends to result in +13k to +17k dps increase, depending on simulator and settings used. I just went back to my T15 LFR profiles, and even then, with that level of gear, the dps increase is in the 8k+ range (with profiles that are around 170k dps so ~5%). It seems not insignificant.

Is this one of those "but if I have 5+ mobs, I don't want the pet's attack speed to reduce" things? Because yeah, beast cleave adds another dynamic of understanding to FF but that's the kind of small detail I appreciate about class design. It's definitely a good thing, imo, and not something I would feel is "clunky".

P.S. I can never tell when Azor's being sarcastic. Dude uses FF when he's sleeping. I've seen the logs!

[Azortharion]

I meant that it is not a significant DPS increase NOT to use it in any situation, stuff like not using it during BW and saving it for after.. Not a big difference. Won't make or break your gameplay/DPS if you "use it when you shouldn't have".

[Einsz]

Silly me, just ignore this post

[Deleted]

Hey, guys, a few questions again )

1. During cloak of shadows, does hitting the rogue with auto shot+dot munitions apply the dot? Currently f.e. serpent sting does, because it's a physical attack. Should be the same with exotic amo i guess?

2. Survival has no kill shot or any dps cooldowns! Does this mean that the sustained damage is really high? I mean it has to be pretty high to rival the other 2 specs (f.e. MM has boost > 80%, < 35% and has rapid fire)

3. When you choose Adaptation as MM/SV you lose Spirit bond/Master's call/Roar of sac. Correct? Missing anything important pvp-wise?

4. It seems MM has no instant direct attack except for glaives to kill totems and stuff? Am I missing something here?

5. The CC available to hunters in WoD:
- frost trap + entrapment: root
- freezing trap/wyvern: incapacitate
- explosive trap (glyphed): pushback
- powershot: pushback
- intimidation/binding: stun
- narrow escape: root
This is all, right? Not missing anything?

6. Binding shot is now 5sec even against players? Can anybody confirm?

7. Overall, is hunter still the king in duels? What classes on beta can beat a hunter 1v1?

[eschatological]

Hey, guys, a few questions again )

1. During cloak of shadows, does hitting the rogue with auto shot+dot munitions apply the dot? Currently f.e. serpent sting does, because it's a physical attack. Should be the same with exotic amo i guess?

2. Survival has no kill shot or any dps cooldowns! Does this mean that the sustained damage is really high? I mean it has to be pretty high to rival the other 2 specs (f.e. MM has boost > 80%, < 35% and has rapid fire)

3. When you choose Adaptation as MM/SV you lose Spirit bond/Master's call/Roar of sac. Correct? Missing anything important pvp-wise?

4. It seems MM has no instant direct attack except for glaives to kill totems and stuff? Am I missing something here?

5. The CC available to hunters in WoD:
- frost trap + entrapment: root
- freezing trap/wyvern: incapacitate
- explosive trap (glyphed): pushback
- powershot: pushback
- intimidation/binding: stun
- narrow escape: root
This is all, right? Not missing anything?

6. Binding shot is now 5sec even against players? Can anybody confirm?

7. Overall, is hunter still the king in duels? What classes on beta can beat a hunter 1v1?

1) Dunno, I'll put it on my things to test.

2) Not currently no, but they're still going to do damage passes. Maybe SV will have really high sustain.

3) You can't choose talents like Intimidation or Blink Strikes either, afaik.

4) I mean...you could use Chimera Shot? But yeah, no real useful totem-killing shot. Glaives on a 15s CD, and with a long travel time.

5) Still have concussive as a snare I believe.

6) Things to test.

7) No clue. MM is totally useless for PvP right now, and once you deal with the pet in BM, BM is pretty toothless....SV's damage is too low right now to do much of anything.

[Deleted]

1) Dunno, I'll put it on my things to test.

2) Not currently no, but they're still going to do damage passes. Maybe SV will have really high sustain.

3) You can't choose talents like Intimidation or Blink Strikes either, afaik.

4) I mean...you could use Chimera Shot? But yeah, no real useful totem-killing shot. Glaives on a 15s CD, and with a long travel time.

5) Still have concussive as a snare I believe.

6) Things to test.

7) No clue. MM is totally useless for PvP right now, and once you deal with the pet in BM, BM is pretty toothless....SV's damage is too low right now to do much of anything.

Thanks very much for your answers! I'm looking forward to updates if you can find the time to test stuff

[Nakauri]

Can you use explosive trap as a means to kill totems and such?
IE, as marksmanship, you have the option of glaive, chimaera or watching your swing timer for autoshot. Adding traps onto that, given their pitiful damage otherwise, might make it work a bit better?

[Arcanimus]

Can you use explosive trap as a means to kill totems and such?
IE, as marksmanship, you have the option of glaive, chimaera or watching your swing timer for autoshot. Adding traps onto that, given their pitiful damage otherwise, might make it work a bit better?

No. Traps are not triggered by totems, and totems are immune to AoE (that is to say an aoe attack not targeted and originating at them like a multishot will not hit them)and most debuffs.

[Nakauri]

Sounds like something for them to change
You PvP folk should tweet them about explosive trap triggering and debuffing totems and other such critters. Blow it out of the ground, so to speak.

[Deleted]

I just realized we seem to have a sprint ability in WoD
- aspect of the cheetah + minor glyph = 10sec CD, 30% speed increase ability that cancels upon being hit (with no downside because Hawk is removed/passive)

[timoseewho]

I just realized we seem to have a sprint ability in WoD
- aspect of the cheetah + minor glyph = 10sec CD, 30% speed increase ability that cancels upon being hit (with no downside because Hawk is removed/passive)

ya i pretty much have pack on 247, also i'm not sure since i don't have much experience with pack in combat on live, but i noticed some aoe abilities from bosses don't turn off pack

i guess this is something going for us:]

[Deleted]

I just realized we seem to have a sprint ability in WoD
- aspect of the cheetah + minor glyph = 10sec CD, 30% speed increase ability that cancels upon being hit (with no downside because Hawk is removed/passive)

Yeah, since I discovered this combination, the nerved engineering nitro boost became even more useless. Really thinking about giving up this profession. Only thinv engineering has going for it is the bop crafted gun.

[Walajanilu]

The nitro boosts share CD with pots now. The go-to is probably going to be frag belts like old times.

[Pengalor]

Yeah, since I discovered this combination, the nerved engineering nitro boost became even more useless. Really thinking about giving up this profession. Only thinv engineering has going for it is the bop crafted gun.

Yeah, the boots nerf is awful imo. It's so damn slow and now doesn't stack with other move speed. On top of that it won't refresh in combat anymore. Really stupid. That said, engineers still get some cool stuff like Jeeves and Moll-E but it does feel really lame to lose out on the best reason for a raider to grab eng.

- - - Updated - - -

Parachute, Jeeves, MollE and much more. Ofc if you only rolled Engineer for Nitro Boosts, well than. 40% more movementspeed is still better than every other proffession, since they dont offer such a thing.

TL;DR: Overreacting much.

40% extra move speed once during the fight (70% without cheetah). Not really that great. Also, parachute/glider will be available to everyone in WoD, not just engineers (engineers will still make them but they can be sold to others). Essentially, as far as a raiding profession, we will just be a worse crafting profession (only goggles and guns/bows, maybe another trinket like Ghost Iron Dragonling) with a small boost in speed (almost insignificant amount) once per fight. Kinda crappy.

[Tehterokkar]

RIP nitro boost 2008-2014.

[Azortharion]

Sims etc. are sort of on hold until I can say that the balancing thing is mostly over. ATM there's new tuning 2 times a week and the SimCraft is constantly updated.. I will likely fill this out with a bunch more closer to PTR release or something.

As Conjor of these forums has pointed out, the specs are fairly close single-target, with AoE tuning having yet to be done. Beast Mastery is still advised overall, though, unless fight circumstances make it undesirable.