Do you think Raid content should be a reward for Raiders and not casuals?

[DeadmanWalking]

Do you think that Raid content should be a reward for dedicated Raiders and not for the Casual player? If raid content were not accessible to casual players would that make raid content more of a reward for you as a raider?

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[KCguy]

Do you think that Raid content should be a reward for dedicated Raiders and not for the Casual player? If raid content were not accessible to casual players would that make raid content more of a reward for you as a raider?

I doubt this thread will be up long as this has been talked about more than enough. But I will say my piece. This isn't 2006 anymore. Times have changed and Blizzard has made the game accessible for everyone. People who can raid on normal and up get the more powerful gear. And come WoD, LFR won't get the same gear as normal and up, so there you go. The gear is changing and yet everyone will still get to raid.

[Darsithis]

I'm a raider and a casual player. The two are not mutually exclusive

[Sinndra]

no it doesnt make the raid a better reward. i dont care who else runs the instances. i dont care how much time effort or skill they have, they dont affect me at all. i run the raids to have fun with my guild/friends.

[braeldiil]

Before the lock:

Content gets resources based on the amount it gets consumed. So if you lock raiding down, and only 1% of the players see it, then you eventually get only 1% of the resources devoted to the game. While that means we'd get some kick-ass quests, your raids would really, really suck. But you'd be a special snowflake, and maybe that would be enough for you.

Personally, I like big, sprawling fun raids. So keep rocking LFR, so I get good raids at my level.

[DeadmanWalking]

I was asked to run a poll to see if anyone would agree with this statement as a source. There is a relevance.

[fixx]

Do you think that Raid content should be a reward for dedicated Raiders and not for the Casual player? If raid content were not accessible to casual players would that make raid content more of a reward for you as a raider?

Dedicated raiders are rewarded with realm first spam, mounts, titles and additional bosses/phases in the fight. What else is needed?

And the answer to your question is: fuck no!

[Deleted]

As Kcloves said, It was like that for the majority of the games life. It was a point of massive contention for a huge part of the playerbase who never got to see content.

With the growth of gaming, social media and utube. People see others raiding more nowadays and said "well I have wanted to do that but since I have a dog, kid, job, lack of skill or just don't have the social skills to be friendly towards 9/24 other people, I can't do it. It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOO UNFAIR"

[fixx]

I was asked to run a poll to see if anyone would agree with this statement as a source. There is a relevance.

Why bother? This shit is one of the "dead horse" topics that pop up every week and get locked after bunch of people get infractions for trolling & generic insults.

[braeldiil]

I doubt this thread will be up long as this has been talked about more than enough. But I will say my piece. This isn't 2006 anymore. Times have changed and Blizzard has made the game accessible for everyone. People who can raid on normal and up get the more powerful gear. And come WoD, LFR won't get the same gear as normal and up, so there you go. The gear is changing and yet everyone will still get to raid.

In 2006, WoW was the casual game. I mean, you could level without groups and raid with only 40 people. You didn't need to earn hundreds of additional levels once capped to get needed skills. And on, and on, and on. WoW beat the competition by always being the more casual-friendly game. That's really the only big innovation it ever had.

[Sarcon]

Raid content isn't the reward.. The loot is..

[Varabently]

My guild raids about 6 hours a week. Is that "casual?" We're 8/14 heroic SOO.

That being said, I think I understand the spirit of what you're asking. The answer is that as long as the "Raider" experience isn't impacted (like they feel they need to run LFR for example), then why should I care if someone else gets to raid a different version? I really don't, but what I don't like about the current situation is to gear up you have to do this dance where you run LFR over and over until you're about 530 or 540 then you can do flex/normal.

You basically end up doing the same raid but in different difficulties, which is tedious and boring as fuck. That's why I liked the older systems in TBC and Wrath where you basically had "intro" raids to get you started (Kara and Naxx), then you supplemented that with valor gear and you got geared up. Then you were ready to do the latest and greatest.

This was less so in both expacs since near the end you could get pretty high level gear from heroics, but people still did Naxx and Kara all the way through to the expacs. But when's the last time a new player had to do the first tier of raiding in MOP? You never have to set foot in anything below ToTT after getting timeless gear.

Maybe it's catch-up mechanics that irk me, I dunno. I think the content for an expac should remain useful throughout the expac, not just become worthless after a few patches. I like the gating and the attunement aspect of raiding. In the past, it meant that you had overcome some level of content. For example, if you joined in mid-TBC and went through KAra and SSC/TK, I could be reasonably sure of your skill when inviting you to a black temple raid. But now, everyone has full 496 timeless gear or even 535 and there's no reason to think they are good players.

[Jtbrig7390]

Do you think that Raid content should be a reward for dedicated Raiders and not for the Casual player? If raid content were not accessible to casual players would that make raid content more of a reward for you as a raider?

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The poll kinda has spoken.

But to add this is a clear "LFR Shouldn't have raid gear" thread. So to add LFR is in fact raiding. Don't like it don't care and I don't care what anyones arugement is. LFR is in fact raiding. Anything done in WoW with more then 5 people in a group is classed as raiding. If I get 8 people together and we go to stormwind and kill npc's all day then we leave we just raided Stormwind.

Not saying you urself would disagree but its to anyone who dose. LFR is in fact raiding #Dealwithit and Raiders/Casuals can be one in the same.

Some people like just doing Flex/LFR/Normal/Heroic so let them do the mode they like and leave them be. Trying to belittle them with less gear "Blues in LFR or some shit" is just a dick move nothing more.

[Dispraise]

If your enjoyment of any given content is predicated solely on excluding others from said content, then I can't help but feel you are a bad re mmos. Also, if you expect people to pay a monthly subscription just so they can bask in your leet glory while being locked out of actually playing the game, I think you are a bad re economics.

[ComputerNerd]

I'm a raider and a casual player. The two are not mutually exclusive

Exactly.
Casual does not mean unskilled as much as some arrogant portions of the community will keep repeating.
Casual vs Hardcore is and has only ever been about time commitment and whether you plan your life or you plan your game around the other.
Casual is planning your gameplay around life while Hardcore is planning your life around the game.

There is exclusive raid content for the skilled, it is the progression in heroic which the unskilled do not progress through to reach.
There has even been exclusive bosses in heroic modes.

Usual childish bashing to make yourself look superior when the reality is we can look up to players for more than their achievements or their log rankings.
A good player is someone I can appreciate, and that may or may not be a skilled player.

LFR is as much raiding as any other format.
You can't use some arbitrary measure fabricated in your head that determines a certain amount of difficulty is or isn't "real" raiding.
By that argument you can't call anything less than heroic "real" as that is the only complete version of any encounter, but still people do bash LFR.
Normal has less difficulty and less mechanics then Heroic, so both can't be equally "real".
The definition of "real" doesn't change from one difficulty to another to suit your argument.
It only applies accurately to one difficulty format, or none at all.
Ironic that they contradict their own argument in the process.

[DeadmanWalking]

The point isn't what do you consider your self, the point is do you think it should only be for raiders and not casuals. I'm keeping my opinion out if it so as not to tinge the results.

[Deleted]

So to add LFR is in fact raiding.

If LFR is raiding then how comes every time I enter an LFR my chat box gets spammed with this???



Checkm8.

[Jtbrig7390]

If LFR is raiding then how comes every time I enter an LFR my chat box gets spammed with this???



Checkm8.

Because your in a instance group a when using the LFG system. If you got 24 others in a group then Qed for LFR it wouldn't do it then just like flex.

/Checkm8

If that is really your arguement its a really weak one.

[Amerissis]

Everyone who raids is a raider, hence the term, so raid content is already always a reward for raiders. And raiders can be casual, of course, but they are still raiders when they do raids...

[JemiS]

The problem is you're placing "raiders" and "casuals" as two different groups of people, when they are not.

"Hardcore" and "casual" are two different groups. "Raiders" and "non-raiders" are two different groups.

There are hardcore players who don't raid, there are casual players who raid quite effectively. One group determines the content someone does, the other how much time someone puts into the game.

And even in casual vs hardcore, you have a time vs ability vs skill argument as to your definition.

So basically, your statement is nonsensical, which means your results are useless.

It's like saying "Who should get paid more? A part-time worker, or an engineer?" The question is meaningless, so the answer is meaningless.

And also, WoW has always been the "casual" game. It had 40 man raids when EQ had 72 man raids, and you could solo level in WoW when you needed a group in EQ. Professions always leveled for max-level recipes instead of it being a fractional chance based on RNG. WoW was successful largely because it was the casual alternative to the other MMO's out at the time.