The Sniper Training hate!

[Deleted]

Well. the fact that you must stay put in 3 secs, will give bad results in raids. I guarantee that you will see a lot of MM hunters taking godawful much damage, due to the fact that they rather stay put for 1 more second, just to get the buff, instead of GTFO.
MM hunters will not be popular, unless you are über skilled. Thats my 2 cents.

Bad people always stand in crap.. There isn't even an argument here. That's like saying "arcane mages take godawful much damage, due to the fact they rather stay put for 1 more second, just to get a cast off. Instead of GTFO"

It's 3 seconds, you are guaranteed to have it on pull unless you have a braindead leader/tank/bad who pulls. You have to move within a ~3 sec window to not allow it to drop off. Yes its a skill ability but its hardly the end of the world if it falls off for 3 secs. The true skill will come from learning the raid bosses/movement patterns well enough to maximize its uptime into the 85%-99% area. This is why its a good ability it requires thought, skill, planning and thinking about how mechanics work.

Most people seem to report 80% + uptime. The difference in 80-100% I have seen figures of about 1-4% damage. If you are so bad you don't understand big glowy marker kills you, you don't have to worry about losing 2% damage..

[Donkeywing]

just deterrencing the breaths to avoid movement.

Yes thank you for providing an argument against this ability. Unless you think deterrencing to avoid momement is actually acceptable during any kind of progression. This kind of mentality is one of the reasons I think ST blows.

[Deleted]

Yes thank you for providing an argument against this ability. Unless you think deterrencing to avoid momement is actually acceptable during any kind of progression. This kind of mentality is one of the reasons I think ST blows.

Well I'm not advocating using it to avoid movement, more to avoid the death if you can't forward think enough to move to a safe area in 3seconds..

[Donkeywing]

Alright then, thats completely unrelated to this ability though, so you should mention your entire point
Still, its a perfect example of how people are going to play/cheese in order to get max uptime, sacrificing their defensive abilities. Just for the sake of being top dps.

[Deleted]

Alright then, thats completely unrelated to this ability though, so you should mention your entire point
Still, its a perfect example of how people are going to play/cheese in order to get max uptime, sacrificing their defensive abilities. Just for the sake of being top dps.

Well you sacrifice dps to use deterrence anyway, I guess its a bad example to use it on breath, I would just make sure I moved as I do already and take the 3 sec dps loss..

Thing is Siege wasn't designed entirely around the new builds, until we see it during 100 raiding we just won't know if it works well or not.

[stratocaster]

Well you sacrifice dps to use deterrence anyway, I guess its a bad example to use it on breath, I would just make sure I moved as I do already and take the 3 sec dps loss..

Thing is Siege wasn't designed entirely around the new builds, until we see it during 100 raiding we just won't know if it works well or not.

From what I've seen so far, Highmaul requires a lot of moving. So we will at least see a huge difference from good vs bad MM hunters I guess.

[Donkeywing]

Thing is Siege wasn't designed entirely around the new builds, until we see it during 100 raiding we just won't know if it works well or not.

Your right we have no idea what the impact will be. You can stare at sims all day long in reality its going to be different anyway. I however have a reasonable concern that this ability will have a major impact on dps, which will promote bad gameplay over good, because lets face it, the only way most of us currently judge any kind of pve skill right now is by looking at rankings/dps meters, not the use of det for example. Disengaging into a malorok bubble will get overlooked, etc etc. With that kind of pressure, its easy making a decision thats in favour of your dps but not in favour of killing the boss.
There is a different perspective aswell, but this is one of my opinions/concerns

[stratocaster]

Not to mention take as little dmg as possible, or stun/interrupt.

[Daieon]

I'm re-rolling to my rogue because I really dislike sniper training. I liked being mobile and was fine with not having a solid raid CD to compensate for our movement. I understand how people can like the idea of being a turrety shooter and MM being the master marksman makes sense to be made into the slow hard hitter. I, personally, find it uninteresting and really annoying. I'll go melee before I play a caster

[Penguintamer]

Sniper Training's just a small annoyance for me when I play Marksmanship. What makes the spec shitty is the fact that the only focus dump is a high cast time Aimed Shot. Not having instant Aimed Shot procs or a a haste buff from the other Steady Focus makes the spec feel bad and boring. It barely feels okay hardcasting Aimed Shot in my rotation in a full set of gear at the end of the expansion. How do you think it will feel in the first raid tier when haste values are very low?

And the sad part is Survival is so ungodly boring without a spec specific cooldown (Rapid Fire, Bestial Wrath) or Kill Shot, so the only alternative is Beast Mastery.

[DeicideUH]

I don't feel that Sniper Training has any problem in PvE. Been doing SoO and it just means I jump around a lot less; I can keep Sniper Training up most of the time.

But now, in PvP... Sniper Training just makes Mastery useless. Of course, if the enemy just ignores you then Sniper Training becomes godly, but usually you won't be ignored and will need to keep moving to keep yourself alive.

[Teucer]

Well you sacrifice dps to use deterrence anyway, I guess its a bad example to use it on breath, I would just make sure I moved as I do already and take the 3 sec dps loss..

What is cancel aura macro...


although then you're giving up using it due to poor RNG and bad healers.

[Deleted]

Sniper training with lots of mastery combo with Power shot makes all casters in my raid group really really mad
I think that moverment debuff should stop counting once you stop moving this will give to us beter control

[Deleted]

1. Moving while aspect of the fox is active shouldn't break the buff.
2. There isn't anything else bad in sniper training, but the playstyle of mm makes me sick. Mm was fun spec when you had to adapt your playstyle with different buffs and targets health. Ever since mm could remove arcane shot from it's action bars made it dull spec. WTB t12 mm back.

[Hoofey]

1. Moving while aspect of the fox is active shouldn't break the buff.
2. There isn't anything else bad in sniper training, but the playstyle of mm makes me sick. Mm was fun spec when you had to adapt your playstyle with different buffs and targets health. Ever since mm could remove arcane shot from it's action bars made it dull spec. WTB t12 mm back.

Indeed, MM lacks a procc.
You could probably make a 1 button macro as MM and still do decent dps with it nowadays. :|

Edit:

Decided to make myself a LFR macro, using SF.
/castsequence reset=20, Chimaera shot, Steady shot, steady shot, aimed shot, steady shot, aimed shot, chimaera shot, steady shot, steady shot, aimed shot, steady shot, steady shot, barrage

Works like a charm, 2nd CS is a bit delayed, but does the job.

Just do your opener like you normally would, then instead of using your normal CS, just start using the macro instead and voila, /afk till RF is up again.

Also, its pretty sad that it actually works as well as it does

[DeicideUH]

Indeed, MM lacks a procc.
You could probably make a 1 button macro as MM and still do decent dps with it nowadays. :|

Edit:

Decided to make myself a LFR macro, using SF.
/castsequence reset=20, Chimaera shot, Steady shot, steady shot, aimed shot, steady shot, aimed shot, chimaera shot, steady shot, steady shot, aimed shot, steady shot, steady shot, barrage

Works like a charm, 2nd CS is a bit delayed, but does the job.

Just do your opener like you normally would, then instead of using your normal CS, just start using the macro instead and voila, /afk till RF is up again.

Also, its pretty sad that it actually works as well as it does

On level 90 maybe, but on level 100 you do have procs in the form of AiS crits returning focus. A macro would probably make you waste focus, and thus lose DPS.

[Deleted]

On level 90 maybe, but on level 100 you do have procs in the form of AiS crits returning focus. A macro would probably make you waste focus, and thus lose DPS.

It's still awfully dull spec nowadays. Managed to press chimera on cd and maximize your sniper training uptime? GZ you just can't get better in this spec. I hope mm becomes fucking op in pvp somehow so blizzard has to nerf spec to the ground.

[Nemesiz]

I like it.

[ReklessJonez]

TBH, I dont see why ppl are making such a fuss about ST. I think if you did proper studying of the Progression fights you won't have a problem keeping you uptime close to 90+%. It not more "skill" just proper preparation. And if you are in a competitive guild you should be doing this anway. But i can see where a casual raider might have an issue, especially if they dont study prior to pull. None the less if ppl hate ST just play one of the other specs. we are top third of the totempole for all specs in @ lvl100


-BowsBeforeHoes

[Meknoid]

Biggest change to MM needed, imo, is either the 7+ mob requirement for multi-shot to be priority, or no instant cast focus dump for things like killing totems/banners mid-fight. Even if the instant cast focus dump is not preferred in a single target rotation, I feel we need one to get important mechanics like totems and banners out of the way quicker. We are hunters, we've always done that. Tab/Targeting and pet attacking, auto attacking, or using instant cast multi-shot seems meh to me.

Sniper Training is in a good place, and so is the general rotation for single target.