Survival set bonuses t18.

[Echorian]

Updated: T18 Survival 2P Bonus. Your Black Arrow increases all elemental damage done to the target by 10% for 15 sec.


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T18 Survival 2P Bonus (New) Your Black Arrow increases all elemental damage done to the target by 15% for until cancelled.
T18 Survival 4P Bonus (New) Your Explosive Shot causes a shadow nova on targets afflicted by your Black Arrow.

This seems interesting, with the serpent sting initial tick removal, our 4set is likely to be a good compensation.

Im not sure if elemental damage is spell dmg overall. If so that's quite the damage increase
Keep in mind alot can still change before final notes.

[Hayro1]

That 4P....imagine 5-10 adds with BA on them all and tanking them on top of the boss.....all that damage lmao.

[idunnowatdo]

That 4P....imagine 5-10 adds with BA on them all and tanking them on top of the boss.....all that damage lmao.

that plus archie trinket HNNNGGG

[HonneurVilified]

Based on the trinket/tier bonuses, the benefits for SV seem to be more focused on multi-target rather than ST. It's probably healthy for the class overall to give SV a very well-defined niche (sustained AoE), but I love SV so I'd love to see it as close to BM/MM on ST as it is currently in BRF. We'll see how tuning ends up, but it would be weird for SV to be strong ST when its trinket bonus/4P are so multi-target based.

[Deleted]

yea set look interesting till th damn BM dint get top again
MM also get really stron bonuses but the probllem is that still will lack in AoE
Elemental damage should be the variation of our magic damage
About ST you can just use another trinket instead archimode one if target is pure ST

[HonneurVilified]

About ST you can just use another trinket instead archimode one if target is pure ST

True, good point. The non-Archimonde trinkets look pretty strong, too; Boss 11 - Agility DPS Trinket 4 and Boss 4 - Agility DPS Trinket 2 look pretty interesting (the first one is very well itemized for SV, though MS might lose some value with the Arcane Shot SrS nerf).

[lanilani26]

the Boss 4 - Agility DPS Trinket 2 on use "Summons 4 Mirror Images to attack your target and nearby enemies for 20 sec," makes me think of the shitty leveling up trinkets at the beginning of expansion. Blegh.

[Tehterokkar]

Based on the trinket/tier bonuses, the benefits for SV seem to be more focused on multi-target rather than ST. It's probably healthy for the class overall to give SV a very well-defined niche (sustained AoE), but I love SV so I'd love to see it as close to BM/MM on ST as it is currently in BRF. We'll see how tuning ends up, but it would be weird for SV to be strong ST when its trinket bonus/4P are so multi-target based.

How many fights have been sustained AoE in the history of WoW? I can only think of Wind Lord guy in Heart of Fear.

AoE in raids is always bursty, so arguments like "This spec is good at sustained AoE" is bullshit.

[Deleted]

How many fights have been sustained AoE in the history of WoW? I can only think of Wind Lord guy in Heart of Fear.

AoE in raids is always bursty, so arguments like "This spec is good at sustained AoE" is bullshit.

Not bullshit, just not terribly relevant to current raid design.

Personally I'm happy with MM being weak AoE provided it's ST is strongest of our specs.

[Tehterokkar]

Not bullshit, just not terribly relevant to current raid design.

Personally I'm happy with MM being weak AoE provided it's ST is strongest of our specs.

When has sustained AoE been relevant?

[Sanore]

Well their was the heart of fear guy you mentioned. ICC had a couple of sustained aoe bosses as well (gunship and Valithra). Tectus was kinda of a sustained aoe fight too. I'm sure their are more but I can't think of any more off the top of my head. However, I do have to agree with Tehterokkar that their really enough of them to make a spec's niche sustained aoe

[Deleted]

Well their was the heart of fear guy you mentioned. ICC had a couple of sustained aoe bosses as well (gunship and Valithra). Tectus was kinda of a sustained aoe fight too. I'm sure their are more but I can't think of any more off the top of my head. However, I do have to agree with Tehterokkar that their really enough of them to make a spec's niche sustained aoe

I don't remember doing alot of AoE in BC and WotLK.... if anything, I'd call it add-cleaving or something like that.

We had only Multishot + Volley back then didn't we? Volley was pretty strong but I don't remember using it very often during bossfights, if there ever was a "sustained aoe fight" you would've used it 24/7 during that encounter. I remember using it to *burst* down adds (Freya hardmode(?) floweradds) or sometimes during less important fight-aspects like the arena part against Thorim (while the other group doing the gauntlet thingy) but that's "burst" too.

Most of the time (like... 95%+ of the time) there is neither a way nor a use of AoE that's not burst... at least not during progression

[Tehterokkar]

Well 1 potential for "set and forget" AoE was Pack beasts on Mythic Beastlord Darmac, however they added a mechanic that forces you to kill them as fast as possible, rather than letting them die to passive cleave(like you do on Mythic Imperator for the small adds).

[HonneurVilified]

How many fights have been sustained AoE in the history of WoW? I can only think of Wind Lord guy in Heart of Fear.

AoE in raids is always bursty, so arguments like "This spec is good at sustained AoE" is bullshit.

Tone down the salt a bit. If you have tested any of the bosses on the PTR, you know that at least half of the fights have high priority adds that survive a nontrivial amount of time. This will be especially true during progression.

Hellfire Assault, Hellfire High Council, Kormrok, Kilrogg Deadeye, Gorefiend, Shadow-Lord Iskar, and Tyrant Velhari (at minimum; I'm not sure about some others) have important adds involved in the fight.

Out of those, Kormrok is pretty bursty (though the tank hand has a decent amount of health), and Gorefiend adds might be too spread out to really take advantage of Shadow Nova. I can't say anything definitive about Hellfire Assault and Hellfire High Council, but with the latter, if you honestly think that having 3+ Black Arrows up at the same time (on potentially stacked targets?) doesn't sound pretty good, I don't know what to say.

Regarding the rest:
You can easily stay phased on Kilrogg long enough to consider it "sustained AoE" (~40 seconds), and it's extremely important to kill as many adds as possible. I could see BM being very good at this too; that just depends on tuning.

The add phases on Shadow-Lord are literally the entire fight (not in terms of duration, but in terms of importance). Every add phase involves ~5 trash adds and 1 -> 2 -> 3 important adds, increasing with each add phase. These phases last a nontrivial amount of time (again, 40+ seconds), potentially giving you time to build up Black Arrow on a few of the larger adds.

For Tyrant Velhari, I could see the argument that MM's 2T cleave would be superior, but it's still true that there are at least 2 targets up for the majority of the fight (since the first add is so useless we ended up having it alive even when the second add spawned).

As a side-note, one nice thing about the SV 2P/4P/trinket is that you don't really need to sacrifice any ST to AoE. If we imagine a scenario where there's a priority target (boss, important add) and some trash adds, BM would probably have to spend a lot of its focus just keeping Beast Cleave up. Since the Shadow Nova is tied to Explosive Shot and the BA reset is tied to Arcane Shot, you can pretty much fire out a multishot and continue your ST rotation, throwing out BAs as you get resets. Or you could go HAM with multi-shot and still get BA resets; whichever.

Maybe it's not clear what I mean by sustained AoE. I basically mean multidotting. You're right, SV's burst AoE will probably be shit with the AS/MS nerfs (unless the 4P is just godly and you pool a BA/LnL). There are plenty of fights with adds/bosses that will live long enough to get Black Arrow up on multiple targets, though.

Again, I'm not trying to say SV will be godlike, but a lot of the fights (in my opinion) fit pretty well with its tier bonuses and trinket bonus, so it *could* be depending on how things are tuned.

Sorry for the novel.

[Deleted]

Tone down the salt a bit. If you have tested any of the bosses on the PTR, you know that at least half of the fights have high priority adds that survive a nontrivial amount of time. This will be especially true during progression.

Hellfire Assault, Hellfire High Council, Kormrok, Kilrogg Deadeye, Gorefiend, Shadow-Lord Iskar, and Tyrant Velhari (at minimum; I'm not sure about some others) have important adds involved in the fight.

Out of those, Kormrok is pretty bursty (though the tank hand has a decent amount of health), and Gorefiend adds might be too spread out to really take advantage of Shadow Nova. I can't say anything definitive about Hellfire Assault and Hellfire High Council, but with the latter, if you honestly think that having 3+ Black Arrows up at the same time (on potentially stacked targets?) doesn't sound pretty good, I don't know what to say.

Regarding the rest:
You can easily stay phased on Kilrogg long enough to consider it "sustained AoE" (~40 seconds), and it's extremely important to kill as many adds as possible. I could see BM being very good at this too; that just depends on tuning.

The add phases on Shadow-Lord are literally the entire fight (not in terms of duration, but in terms of importance). Every add phase involves ~5 trash adds and 1 -> 2 -> 3 important adds, increasing with each add phase. These phases last a nontrivial amount of time (again, 40+ seconds), potentially giving you time to build up Black Arrow on a few of the larger adds.

For Tyrant Velhari, I could see the argument that MM's 2T cleave would be superior, but it's still true that there are at least 2 targets up for the majority of the fight (since the first add is so useless we ended up having it alive even when the second add spawned).

As a side-note, one nice thing about the SV 2P/4P/trinket is that you don't really need to sacrifice any ST to AoE. If we imagine a scenario where there's a priority target (boss, important add) and some trash adds, BM would probably have to spend a lot of its focus just keeping Beast Cleave up. Since the Shadow Nova is tied to Explosive Shot and the BA reset is tied to Arcane Shot, you can pretty much fire out a multishot and continue your ST rotation, throwing out BAs as you get resets. Or you could go HAM with multi-shot and still get BA resets; whichever.

Maybe it's not clear what I mean by sustained AoE. I basically mean multidotting. You're right, SV's burst AoE will probably be shit with the AS/MS nerfs (unless the 4P is just godly and you pool a BA/LnL). There are plenty of fights with adds/bosses that will live long enough to get Black Arrow up on multiple targets, though.

Again, I'm not trying to say SV will be godlike, but a lot of the fights (in my opinion) fit pretty well with its tier bonuses and trinket bonus, so it *could* be depending on how things are tuned.

Sorry for the novel.

As it is right now on PTR, SV is completely unplayable, and that's coming from one of the biggest defenders of the spec you will find.