My issues with pre-potting (or lack thereof)

[Trapped]

I've been a WoW player since early BC. Been a guild leader for 95% of that time. When WoD came out, my fianceé and I decided, for the first time in 7 years, that we weren't going to be GMs anymore and find a guild that meets our (high) standards.

Our biggest holdup, in the few guilds we've trialed with, has always been the use of potions by members of the raid. I don't know if I'm just being an elitist A-hole, but to me, why would anyone not want to use 2 free 25-second buffs to their primary stat for any given fight? I want to play with players that have the mindset to do everything possible to increase their character's performance, and consumables are on top of that list.

The most common reason (or excuse) I've heard for why some people don't is because "its farm content, and I don't care about ranking" or "a potion isn't going to make or break the fight".

Personally, for DPS to not double pot every encounter is unacceptable and lazy. I've even gone as far as saying that tanks and healers should at least pre-pot, too. All healers, imo, should pre-pot intellect, then you have the option later to use another intellect pot if you need burst healing, or use a mana pot if you're running low. The main tank who starts the encounter should pre-pot armor, and the offtank could pre-pot agility/strength, depending on the class, then you have a 2nd armor potion later to use as a spare cooldown. I tested an armor potion out on my undergeared DK tank, and it was roughly a 10% physical damage reduction, and 2000 attack power. Hardly anything to scoff at.

Am I being too picky to find a guild that enforces maximum potion use?

[Deleted]

Anyone in any guild that 'raids' at a respectable standard (IE: Clears normal) should be pre-potting. If they aren't then they're not worth your time.

Also just a heads up, tanks gain 1500 Bonus Armour from the BA pot, which is 1500 Attack Power directly so they gain more from BA potting than strength - same for Glad Warriors

[Nami]

If it's progression, I agree that everyone should pre-pot, but if the bosses are on farm and you know you don't need the extra dps, why would you waste your pots? Unless you're trying to impress someone with your logs, I don't see the point.

[Trapped]

Anyone in any guild that 'raids' at a respectable standard (IE: Clears normal) should be pre-potting. If they aren't then they're not worth your time.

Also just a heads up, tanks gain 1500 Bonus Armour from the BA pot, which is 1500 Attack Power directly so they gain more from BA potting than strength - same for Glad Warriors

Yes, I agree with that, but if you look at logs from some of the best guilds in the world, even they don't all use 2 potions per fight, which is kind of why I made this thread. How can I expect to find a decent guild that enforces potions when the best in the world don't, lol.

If it's progression, I agree that everyone should pre-pot, but if the bosses are on farm and you know you don't need the extra dps, why would you waste your pots? Unless you're trying to impress someone with your logs, I don't see the point.

I didn't necessarily mean farm bosses. HFC is still new, and even though most guilds are going through it for their 3rd or 4th time this week, I'd hardly consider any of them to be on farm. Also, from a DPS perspective (I play a hunter), why would you not want to try to see what kind of numbers you can do? At the very least, it would make the fight take less time, which would help your raid out as a whole, more than your personal logs. Just my two cents.

[PosPosPos]

I didn't necessarily mean farm bosses. HFC is still new, and even though most guilds are going through it for their 3rd or 4th time this week, I'd hardly consider any of them to be on farm.

That would be the very definition of farm - it's easy to down with minimal effort.

How "new" the content is has zero bearing on said definition, don't confuse two completely different terms.

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Am I being too picky to find a guild that enforces maximum potion use?

No, it's your choice. At the end of the day, how you enjoy the game is your own business, just don't force your narrow views onto others.

[Deleted]

Which logs show world first guilds not pre-potting? You mean on legit pulls or "fuck we messed up lets wipe quick" pulls?

And every guild I've ever been in has pre-potted regardless of how many times the boss has been killed. A stack of pots is like 50-100g so it's hardly "wasting". Anyone that is trying to find an excuse not to pre-pot is just lazy or doesn't care about raiding enough to min-max. I'd love to know peoples opinions about using Runes and Flasks :/

[Reyzzz]

If it's progression, I agree that everyone should pre-pot, but if the bosses are on farm and you know you don't need the extra dps, why would you waste your pots? Unless you're trying to impress someone with your logs, I don't see the point.

"Waste?" The farm wipes happen because people stop focusing and using their character to full potential. And you are advocating exactly that. Pots are also very cheap.

Simply, not using pots is just plain bad.

[Deleted]

That would be the very definition of farm - it's easy to down with minimal effort.

How "new" the content is has zero bearing on said definition, don't confuse two completely different terms.

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No, it's your choice. At the end of the day, how you enjoy the game is your own business, just don't force your narrow views onto others.

Narrow views? What the fuck is this Tumblr? Pre-potting in any raiding guild is the absolute norm. If you want to raid you follow these norms else you don't raid, get outta here

[Echo of Soul]

I think the whole idea of prepotting is stupid. You're essentially bypassing the restriction of one pot per fight. I think the lockout from using the pot again should kick in regardless if you use the pot 1 sec after the pull or 1 sec before the pull. Blizzard said before WoD that they wanted to tune down the amount of insane damage we do at the start of the fight but it seems little has been done about it. Some classes can easily sit on 100k+ for a while after the pull.

[Trapped]

Also just a heads up, tanks gain 1500 Bonus Armour from the BA pot, which is 1500 Attack Power directly so they gain more from BA potting than strength - same for Glad Warriors

Just tested again, on my undergeared DK tank.

Before potion:

46.06% physical damage reduction
4942 Attack Power

After 1500 BA potion:

55.94% physical damage reduction
6820 Attack Power

Net gains: 9.88% physical damage reduction, 1878 attack power
(note: horn of winter was up, for the 10% AP buff)

[Blackmist]

I even pre-pot in LFR (except on my healer because that's grade-A pointless).

Pots are pretty much free to make. Even if you have to buy them, I'm pretty sure nobody plays enough to burn through an entire garrison's worth of gold every day.

The only reason I don't pre-pot is when our tank can't figure out the countdown and pulls early causing me to miss one of them. The twat.

[GutsTheWarrior]

I don't play a healer so forgive my ignorance but I always thought prepotting int for a healer was pointless unless you're just trying to top meters cause there generally isn't much damage in the first 30 seconds of the fight. I'm sure there are exceptions per fight? Or I could be completely wrong, let me know.

[PosPosPos]

Narrow views? What the fuck is this Tumblr? Pre-potting in any raiding guild is the absolute norm. If you want to raid you follow these norms else you don't raid, get outta here

Maybe in yours it's the "absolute norm" to prepot on farm. If you are not raiding in a top tier guild, there's no need to min max every second and pot and rune every minor encounter.

Again, keep your narrow views to yourself.

[Deleted]

I think the whole idea of prepotting is stupid. You're essentially bypassing the restriction of one pot per fight. I think the lockout from using the pot again should kick in regardless if you use the pot 1 sec after the pull or 1 sec before the pull. Blizzard said before WoD that they wanted to tune down the amount of insane damage we do at the start of the fight but it seems little has been done about it. Some classes can easily sit on 100k+ for a while after the pull.

wat.

100k on the pre-pull as opposed to the 3 million DPS burst Affliction Warlocks were doing on Protectors? The majority of DPS classes, if not everyone (don't hold me to that) given the right scenario (Spriest with orbs, big crits, procs, pre-pull trinket buff etc) can sit at 100k. Excluding what Simcraft says this has been the most successful expansion in terms of DPS balancing I've ever seen. Albeit the problem remains that range are so much better for certain fights but meh.

Just tested again, on my undergeared DK tank.

Before potion:

46.06% physical damage reduction
4942 Attack Power

After 1500 BA potion:

55.94% physical damage reduction
6820 Attack Power

Net gains: 9.88% physical damage reduction, 1878 attack power
(note: horn of winter was up, for the 10% AP buff)

That's interesting, did you apply Horn after you potted? BA is 1:1 attack power. I'll double check this on my Warrior when I get off but nether-the-less I'm wrong and I apologize if anything it proves our point more-so that pre-potting is mandatory

[PosPosPos]

"Waste?" The farm wipes happen because people stop focusing and using their character to full potential. And you are advocating exactly that. Pots are also very cheap.

Simply, not using pots is just plain bad.

Farm wipes happen because people fuck up mechanics, not because they didn't prepot.

Most encounters nowadays have very lenient enrage timers, but very unforgiving mechanics.

[ttak82]

If it's progression, I agree that everyone should pre-pot, but if the bosses are on farm and you know you don't need the extra dps, why would you waste your pots? Unless you're trying to impress someone with your logs, I don't see the point.

I'd normally second you there but come WoD, pots are just so really easy to make with the herb garden + vendors in garrison giving you all the mats; plus they are chap on the AH even if one is lazy. (Like, whenever I tried to sell them, they never sold even at 2-3 G apeice). (Its a good change IMO; just miss the mastery procs)

I dont bother making them too often as I do not raid often now, and am struggling with bag space (2 gear sets + some proff junk and space needed for looting / garrison crates n stuff - but if did dedicate more time to raiding, pots are so easy to come by, that I'd just use them very freely - even while doing daily chores. I'd keep at least 2 bag slots for them.

In my experience, some guilds just dont bother with organized pulls / pull countdowns, and if you are pugging, you can just about forget it. In that scenario, its just better not to prepot, and then just use your potions when you want to instead of being pot locked for the whole fight in case you mess up on the pull..

[Trapped]

Narrow views? What the fuck is this Tumblr? Pre-potting in any raiding guild is the absolute norm. If you want to raid you follow these norms else you don't raid, get outta here

I would think that most raiders would agree that pre-potting is the norm for DPS, but what is your opinion on healers and tanks? Its free stats, I don't see why healers wouldn't want a free 1000 intellect for the first 25 seconds of a fight, even if there's usually not a lot of damage going out.. its free stats.

I even pre-pot in LFR (except on my healer because that's grade-A pointless).

Pots are pretty much free to make. Even if you have to buy them, I'm pretty sure nobody plays enough to burn through an entire garrison's worth of gold every day.

The only reason I don't pre-pot is when our tank can't figure out the countdown and pulls early causing me to miss one of them. The twat.

I pre-pot in LFR too, lol. Why not, right? Agi pots are 3-4 gold a piece on my server, but like you said, its not hard to farm your garden everyday and get a buddy to make you some (or have an alchemist alt, like most do?).

[Imnick]

As a raid leader I definitely expect all of my raiders to pre-pot on progression bosses, but ones we consistently one-shot week after week it's up to the person in question.
Some people want to push their DPS to its limit every week and some don't and there's no particular right answer. Some potions aren't going to make the fight much more than 20 seconds shorter.

[Volibear]

I think the whole idea of prepotting is stupid. You're essentially bypassing the restriction of one pot per fight.

That's the entire concept of maximising your usefulness, taking advantage of free extra stats.

[Trapped]

wat.

100k on the pre-pull as opposed to the 3 million DPS burst Affliction Warlocks were doing on Protectors? The majority of DPS classes, if not everyone (don't hold me to that) given the right scenario (Spriest with orbs, big crits, procs, pre-pull trinket buff etc) can sit at 100k. Excluding what Simcraft says this has been the most successful expansion in terms of DPS balancing I've ever seen. Albeit the problem remains that range are so much better for certain fights but meh.



That's interesting, did you apply Horn after you potted? BA is 1:1 attack power. I'll double check this on my Warrior when I get off but nether-the-less I'm wrong and I apologize if anything it proves our point more-so that pre-potting is mandatory

Nope, Horn was up while I potted It is 1:1 ratio, but the 10% AP buff should be putting it up to 1650, not 1878. Unless there's some kind of passive I'm missing that increases AP.