How would the process for uplifting a species work?

[xChurch]

We wouldn't hopefully. There is no purpose in creating a second dominant species, technically third since we're already in the process of creating intelligent machines.

[Techno-Druid]

Realistically speaking ; It's delusional and plain stupid.

If humans were as agressive as ants, for instance, the world would have been blown up over 7 times over.

Humans are bad enough, we don't need to make more variations of humans.

The goal isn't to uplift random species, but those species that are close enough to humans (mammals) and exhibit sentience and self-awareness (to make it more plausible and to narrow it down).

[Deleted]

The goal isn't to uplift random species, but those species that are close enough to humans (mammals) and exhibit sentience and self-awareness (to make it more plausible and to narrow it down).

Which still adds the benefit of effectively nill, apart from a delusional twisted goal.

We can spend money on curing diseases, saving lives, furthering society - And you want us to bring in Monkeys?

Delusional, stupid.

[Zephire]

I like this way. I would realistically want people to consider an uplift an equal being deserving of human rights rather than a mere animal or slave. This seems like a vert respectful way to uplift.

I think we both benefit greatly from that as well. I mean, it would harm us if they go develop a society centralized around dirty technology or other things harming us and where we live. It could also be difficult to have them change their way so that both of us could live side by side. They'll most likely not be "humans in another shape" but rather intelligent beings in their own right which would make them see things from a different angle. This could be very useful to us for understanding things and broaden our perspective.

[Shalcker]

I think we both benefit greatly from that as well. I mean, it would harm us if they go develop a society centralized around dirty technology or other things harming us and where we live. It could also be difficult to have them change their way so that both of us could live side by side. They'll most likely not be "humans in another shape" but rather intelligent beings in their own right which would make them see things from a different angle. This could be very useful to us for understanding things and broaden our perspective.

If you want to go with "broaden our perspective/different angle", go with Orca. They already have two separate "civilizations" that do not mix - big game ocean hunters and coastal fish farmers.

[Deleted]

I think we both benefit greatly from that as well. I mean, it would harm us if they go develop a society centralized around dirty technology or other things harming us and where we live. It could also be difficult to have them change their way so that both of us could live side by side. They'll most likely not be "humans in another shape" but rather intelligent beings in their own right which would make them see things from a different angle. This could be very useful to us for understanding things and broaden our perspective.

Why would another species see what we could not ; With the amount of people we have?

It literally just adds burden to an already strained resource-bound planet AND it also costs time/draws things from other projects.

It's just delusional.

[Arikara]

Dear god you are determined arent you

Uplifting an individual creature to sentience is the worst kind of cruelty you could conceivably inflict upon anything. Animals are happier than any human will ever be, and you would not be doing them any favors by giving them intelligence. Doing the same to an entire species would be downright sadistic.

Regardless of however appealing you find the notion of intelligent animals, understand that what you propose would be a curse rather than a gift. If you care for animal rights at all, uplifting is exactly what you wouldnt want to do.

[Simulacrum]

Dear god you are determined arent you

Uplifting an individual creature to sentience is the worst kind of cruelty you could conceivably inflict upon anything. Animals are happier than any human will ever be, and you would not be doing them any favors by giving them intelligence. Doing the same to an entire species would be downright sadistic.

Regardless of however appealing you find the notion of intelligent animals, understand that what you propose would be a curse rather than a gift. If you care for animal rights at all, uplifting is exactly what you wouldnt want to do.

no m8

you don't understand

having misery inflicted upon you without your consent for no reason other than my enjoyment is a privilege

thus it's not only okay to do it, but a moral obligation

[Shalcker]

Dear god you are determined arent you

Uplifting an individual creature to sentience is the worst kind of cruelty you could conceivably inflict upon anything. Animals are happier than any human will ever be, and you would not be doing them any favors by giving them intelligence. Doing the same to an entire species would be downright sadistic.

Regardless of however appealing you find the notion of intelligent animals, understand that what you propose would be a curse rather than a gift. If you care for animal rights at all, uplifting is exactly what you wouldnt want to do.

I don't know, in this video Orcas seem to be perfectly happy playing "throw seal off the ice floe" game (requiring intelligence and cooperation); and since they are not actually eating the seal afterwards they seem to be doing it for fun:

[Arikara]

I never claimed animals were kind, merely that they are happier without the suffering and complexity brought by intelligence

[Shalcker]

I never claimed animals were kind, merely that they are happier without the suffering and complexity brought by intelligence

I think you overestimate amount of suffering inflicted by having intelligence; most suffering coming that way goes from societal pressures (being able to recognize them but being unable to follow them) rather then intelligence itself.

[Techno-Druid]

Dear god you are determined arent you

Uplifting an individual creature to sentience is the worst kind of cruelty you could conceivably inflict upon anything. Animals are happier than any human will ever be, and you would not be doing them any favors by giving them intelligence. Doing the same to an entire species would be downright sadistic.

Regardless of however appealing you find the notion of intelligent animals, understand that what you propose would be a curse rather than a gift. If you care for animal rights at all, uplifting is exactly what you wouldnt want to do.

Well nobody wants to uplift already sentient animals to sentience. Plenty of animals are already intelligence and possess cultures (chimps and orangutans certainly do).

However you say that these animals are happier than humans? You say it be sadistic to enhance the intelligence of certain species? I would like to ask how you think this involves sadism in any practical usage (genetic engineering) and how do you just know that these animals, many who are hunted illegally and poached, would be happier being dumber and powerless?

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no m8

you don't understand

having misery inflicted upon you without your consent for no reason other than my enjoyment is a privilege

thus it's not only okay to do it, but a moral obligation

People realistically don't ask to be less intelligent. I never said it was objectively a moral obligation, but just as people are against it for moral purposes, many people could believe the opposite.

[Arikara]

many who are hunted illegally and poached, would be happier being dumber and powerless?

Yes. They dont see it as you do. Ignorance is bliss.

Most animals surely arent aware that they are being poached or hunted, and while they certainly dont enjoy being shot at anymore than a human would, they arent aware of it in the same way and so do not worry about it, or anything else really.

But then I could be wrong about any number of those things. Its not like anyone can truly claim to know what animals think.

[Techno-Druid]

Yes. They dont see it as you do. Ignorance is bliss.

Most animals surely arent aware that they are being poached or hunted, and while they certainly dont enjoy being shot at anymore than a human would, they arent aware of it in the same way and so do not worry about it, or anything else really.

But then I could be wrong about any number of those things. Its not like anyone can truly claim to know what animals think.

Elephants realize they are being hunted perfectly, many are fearful of humans and may even attack human settlements if there has been a mass poaching. Bonobos were skilled enough to change their behaviors and habits to avoid being hunted by poor Congolese and militants. When hunted by humans, orcas have a system established to try to protect the young and pregnant of the pod.

[Arikara]

All of those are exactly examples of animals that are more intelligent than the average animal, which only serves to prove my point.

Do you think there exists a human who will ever be as carefree and happy as a dog living in a good family? Consistently, as good as every day?

[Afrospinach]

Lets not

would lead to revolution!

Oh yeah, what about uplifting AI robots? It is the ultimate hubris

[Dellis0991]

Have you seen planet of the apes?! I don't want a chimp ramming a spear up my ass!

[Zephire]

If you want to go with "broaden our perspective/different angle", go with Orca. They already have two separate "civilizations" that do not mix - big game ocean hunters and coastal fish farmers.

I don't think I understand what your point is. Orca (killer whale?) isn't on the same level as humans and you're comparing them with, fish farmers (aka humans)?

Why would another species see what we could not ; With the amount of people we have?

It literally just adds burden to an already strained resource-bound planet AND it also costs time/draws things from other projects.

It's just delusional.

Because they'd be something different. Their body's might have more legs then we have, they might be much taller or shorter then an average human. Hell, me as a man can have a rather difficult time understanding women, and they're human! Imagine we uplift pigeons, they can fly, lack arms and have feathers... How could we possibly have a complete understanding of their perspective without them sharing it?

All of those are exactly examples of animals that are more intelligent than the average animal, which only serves to prove my point.

Do you think there exists a human who will ever be as carefree and happy as a dog living in a good family? Consistently, as good as every day?

What do you know about dogs and their "carefreeness"? How do you measure it? How do you know that it's more carefree than when uplifted? To me it sounds as if you're saying that intelligence reduces happiness? It doesn't. It broadens your understanding, makes you understand things which you didn't know and those things might hurt you. However, when understand something, you might be able to change it. Trying to improve your situation. Maybe your happiness increased due to this improvement compared to when you didn't know about it in the first place.

[Shalcker]

I don't think I understand what your point is. Orca (killer whale?) isn't on the same level as humans and you're comparing them with, fish farmers (aka humans)?

What "same level"? Orcas already have more complex brain then humans. They just don't have tools and have limited options to making them - but they can use tools provided as long as they understand them.

...well, that's the part that can be easily fixed by humans if desired, assuming we can make something useful for them.

And there are two different orca "societies" that according to genetic data didn't mix for at least last 100 thousand years despite often being on same territory - "transient" and "resident". With transient being mostly big prey hunters - hunting seals, dolphins, whales (think human hunter tribes - many of them are quite specialized at the type of prey they hunt and ignoring any eaten by other orca tribes) and resident being mostly "fish eaters" that follow fish migrations (think human herders). As with human societies hunters are more of loners while herders have fairly complex social structures in place with families and clans.

[Zephire]

What "same level"? Orcas already have more complex brain then humans. They just don't have tools and have limited options to making them - but they can use tools provided as long as they understand them.

...well, that's the part that can be easily fixed by humans if desired, assuming we can make something useful for them.

And there are two different orca "societies" that according to genetic data didn't mix for at least last 100 thousand years despite often being on same territory - "transient" and "resident". With transient being mostly big prey hunters - hunting seals, dolphins, whales (think human hunter tribes - many of them are quite specialized at the type of prey they hunt and ignoring any eaten by other orca tribes) and resident being mostly "fish eaters" that follow fish migrations (think human herders). As with human societies hunters are more of loners while herders have fairly complex social structures in place with families and clans.

Might have been wrong to use "same level". I meant that humans and orca is different and isn't playing on the same court. We might both do sports but we do different sports. Hard to compare.

I also know nothing about orcas Still think it's hard to compare the two.