Men should have the right to ‘abort’ responsibility, Swedish political group says

[Tennis]

Lolwut? No.

A woman doesn't get pregnant without a man's sperm. You should know this.

[Deleted]

A woman doesn't get pregnant without a man's sperm. You should know this.

Yes, but the ovaries are active all the time.

[Tennis]

Fair point. Then I want the right for men to choose whether or to support a fetus until the child is born. After all it's a 2 person endeavor, therefor there should be equality. I can't choose what a woman does with her body so the only other choice i have is whether to support a child, wanted or not.

Men choose to support the child once they decide to do the act. They know the consequences. You don't go punch a policeman in the face and then get shocked when you get imprisoned.

[Shakadam]

Men choose to support the child once they decide to do the act. They know the consequences. You don't go punch a policeman in the face and then get shocked when you get imprisoned.

You mean just like how women choose to support and have the child when they decide to do the act?

Oh wait that's not how it works.

[Tennis]

You mean just like how women choose to support and have the child when they decide to do the act?

Oh wait that's not how it works.

In some countries that's how it works.

[Mistame]

I suppose it's time for insurance or whatever passes for a healthcare system to cover the full cost of a vasectomy for men 18+, since the equivalent (and then some) is covered for women already. That's really the only way a man is going to have any "choice" outside of abstinence. Then we'll need to start educating young men to have the procedure as soon as they're of a legal age to do so and join the party as we laugh at those worried about birth rates.

The thread is about men forcing women to abort their kids.

No, it's not. Pay attention.

Absolutely ridiculous. They can opt out. They shouldn't be forced to opt out. We are civilized people and it's 2016.

No one's forcing them to opt out. Pay attention.

Men choose to support the child once they decide to do the act.

Consent to copulation is not consent to parenthood. Pay attention. And grow up.

[Deleted]

That's one way to put it. The thing is, the woman makes the decision of whether to abort the child or not because it is her body. The man cannot and should not be able to influence this decision. So, there is natural inequality, true. When a man chooses to have sex, he should be ready to accept either decision from the woman, while the woman is free to make whatever decision she wants. But in the end, both parties end up nearly equal: in case of child birth, both parties have to pay for child support, and in case of abortion, neither party has to pay anything (except for the abortion costs). So, while there is no equality of decision making (due to bodily autonomy), there is equality of consequences. If the man wants to walk away after the child is born, rather than becoming a parent, as he, in my opinion, should do - then he shouldn't complain about having to pay for the child support ; neither should the woman, if she chooses to walk away.

So, bla bla bla, im sexist bla bla bla... There is no reason what so ever as to why a men should just accept being a parent because he had sex. Just reverse that to woman should not being able to have an abortion because she had sex. Stating how something works now is not a defense as to why it should work like it works.

- - - Updated - - -

Again you try to deflect attention away from your pointless replies with silly insults. Please explain how your were addressing my posts.

Its not a silly insult, if you do not understand what i've said, that is scary, or intentionally obtuse.

[Katie N]

So, bla bla bla, im sexist bla bla bla... There is no reason what so ever as to why a men should just accept being a parent because he had sex. Just reverse that to woman should not being able to have an abortion because she had sex. Stating how something works now is not a defense as to why it should work like it works.

Whining about how you think something is unfair doesn't make it needed to change what you think is unfair.

[Deleted]

The UN convention on the rights of the child put why I'm against it pretty well:

The father's "wants" are outweighed by the rights of the child.

If you really want what is best for the child then it should be put up for adoption, as the woman can't take care of it, and being adopted it would have two loving parents.

- - - Updated - - -

As it should be, my child.

Not being able to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term isn't really a meaningful absence of power, given that nobody has that same type of power over you (and I mean violating your bodily autonomy, not forcing a pregnancy). If we want to point that out, I guess we could also add that men can't force women to sleep with them either, so they don't actually have all of the power. In terms of risks of any kind, they are absolutely minimal, if they even exist at all, and he's the only person who can completely just wash his hands of the situation and leave everyone else to clean up the mess he helped create.

Even with basic income, the child would still lose access to resources by only having one parent financially obligated to support it.

How are you ever going to spot a deadbeat dad? Do we just assume any adult male unescorted by children is a deadbeat dad?

I literally could not care less what someone who is only interested in parenthood for legal benefits wants.

And how is this not the mothers fault? She was the one that choose to have a kid without the support of an significant other.
You are so eager to punish the "dead beat" father because he didn't want the responsibility, but praise a woman having an abortion because "she is taking responsibility".

- - - Updated - - -

Whining about how you think something is unfair doesn't make it needed to change what you think is unfair.

Right, equality should not be a thing, you should go have tea with pann, he also doesn't like equality.

[Katie N]

Right, equality should not be a thing, you should go have tea with pann, he also doesn't like equality.

Equality is not about fleeing responsibility because you don't like it.

[Deleted]

Equality is not about fleeing responsibility because you don't like it.

No, equality is about having equal opportunities, that is something that men are lacking atm.

[Total Crica]

Consent to copulation is not consent to parenthood.

Nature said it is for men, pay attention. There is no society that is going to willingly foot the bill of a child that has parents that are able to foot the bill. Grow up.

[Deleted]

I suppose it's time for insurance or whatever passes for a healthcare system to cover the full cost of a vasectomy for men 18+, since the equivalent (and then some) is covered for women already. That's really the only way a man is going to have any "choice" outside of abstinence.

Plenty of male posters here said that a vasectomy would not be an option for them in previous threads, despite - at the same time - complaining about the fact that having sex could make them parents. So I doubt that the number of vasectomies would suddenly substantially rise if it was covered by health care, simply due to the fact that so many men don't like it.

[turboether]

I suppose it's time for insurance or whatever passes for a healthcare system to cover the full cost of a vasectomy for men 18+, since the equivalent (and then some) is covered for women already. That's really the only way a man is going to have any "choice" outside of abstinence.

Ironic, really, that the answer to men having any rights in cases where bodily autonomy and reproductive rights are the defences for women is for men to give up their bodily autonomy and reproductive rights.

[Noradin]

Plenty of male posters here said that a vasectomy would not be an option for them in previous threads, despite - at the same time - complaining about the fact that having sex could make them parents. So I doubt that the number of vasectomies would suddenly substantially rise if it was covered by health care, simply due to the fact that so many men don't like it.

Surely you have a source for those "plenty of male posters here" who said "vasectomy would not be an option for them in previous threads".
You should at least present, say, five examples. That is not "plenty", but I doubt that you'll even find that many.

- - - Updated - - -

Nature said it is for men, pay attention. There is no society that is going to willingly foot the bill of a child that has parents that are able to foot the bill. Grow up.

Many societies are willing--as long as it is the woman who gives up the child and the father cannot be identified.
(just one example)

[Deleted]

Nature said it is for men, pay attention. There is no society that is going to willingly foot the bill of a child that has parents that are able to foot the bill. Grow up.

Since when is it males that get pregnant? I'm pretty sure that is the woman, so, if you want to talk nature, then it is the female that consents to parenthood because she had sex.

[May90]

No, equality is about having equal opportunities, that is something that men are lacking atm.

Equality is about equal treatment, not equal opportunities. A woman has an opportunity to give birth while a man has not - does it mean that equality is not achievable in principle, until the point science makes it possible for men to get impregnated?

[Deleted]

Equality is about equal treatment, not equal opportunities. A woman has an opportunity to give birth while a man has not - does it mean that equality is not achievable in principle, until the point science makes it possible for men to get impregnated?

It is about both, one doesn't exclude the other.
This isn't about "males getting pregnant" but rather about "females being able to cancel responsibilities", to suggest otherwise after almost a 100 pages of this is just being obtuse.

[Tennis]

Consent to copulation is not consent to parenthood. Pay attention. And grow up.

Yes it is. If you don't want kids then don't risk it. You grow up.

[LilSaihah]

Yes it is. If you don't want kids then don't risk it. You grow up.

So you would support a ban on birth control and abortions?