Why people hates HOTS?

[Frozen Death Knight]

No



Its not.

You are not even explaining why he is wrong.

[Deleted]

You are not even explaining why he is wrong.

Neither is he explaining why he is right.

You see contrary to popular belief the lenght of the post is not what determines its viability.


I could say:

There are more danes in this world then females combined. I have the numbers i just dont feel like expaining them now.

Then write 5 more sentences and you would basicly believe me

[Hand Banana]

Neither is he explaining why he is right.

You see contrary to popular belief the lenght of the post is not what determines its viability.


I could say:

There are more danes in this world then females combined. I have the numbers i just dont feel like expaining them now.

Then write 5 more sentences and you would basicly believe me

I don't want to go into the math because I am lazy but I might. Anyway I don't see how I gave you nothing to chew on; I gave plenty of examples of why the other math is incorrect and outdated.

The bottom line is:
- Play LoL for 3 months as a new account: If you buy champs based on the average price and make sure you have at least 2 generic rune pages, you might own 3 champs (I owned 2 from IP and still didn't have the full runes I wanted in 3 months). All the while you will be objectively weaker than opponents because of lack of summoner level and runes. Try having fun playing with friends and get a mirror lane who is level 30 when you are level 5 (this happened often) who has Flash, 30% more atk and armor/health, and all of the masteries. In a game that prides itself on an arena setting and skill, its a godawful system.
- Play HotS for 3 months as a new account: You can easily own 10+ heroes (since this is what I had easily) based on average hero price and everything you play is just as good as the opponents.

There is literally no comparison. I will state it again; if you are already invested into LoL I understand your logic. I am speaking for new players or people starting the game. At the "endgame" or whatever once you get all heroes to lvl 9, yes LoL is better for costs. However that's a year down the road and you will already own all the heroes in HotS anyway.

[Deleted]

Try having fun playing with friends and get a mirror lane who is level 30 when you are level 5 (this happened often) who has Flash, 30% more atk and armor/health, and all of the masteries.

It's a non issue cause LoL has actually WORKING matchmaking system (not pure random one like in Hots). So even if you queue in with friend that is 30 and you are 10, you will get an opposing team that is also mixed lvl opponents. Again, that's the advantage of having proper matchmaking - something Blizzard can't figure out for 10 years now. Overwatch has the same if not worse MM too...

- Play HotS for 3 months as a new account: You can easily own 10+ heroes (since this is what I had easily) based on average hero price and everything you play is just as good as the opponents.

Hmm.. 3 months? Sure. Take it to 6 and LoL will leave you behind and considering all mobas are about long term "commitment" 6 months is nothing.

Again, I know that some of the critique of Hots may sound like "stop liking what I don't like". But believe me, Hots has serious issues to the point that I would argue companies should be held responsible for releasing half-assed-cash-grabbing products like that.

[Deleted]

I don't want to go into the math because I am lazy but I might. Anyway I don't see how I gave you nothing to chew on; I gave plenty of examples of why the other math is incorrect and outdated.

The bottom line is:
- Play LoL for 3 months as a new account: If you buy champs based on the average price and make sure you have at least 2 generic rune pages, you might own 3 champs (I owned 2 from IP and still didn't have the full runes I wanted in 3 months). All the while you will be objectively weaker than opponents because of lack of summoner level and runes. Try having fun playing with friends and get a mirror lane who is level 30 when you are level 5 (this happened often) who has Flash, 30% more atk and armor/health, and all of the masteries. In a game that prides itself on an arena setting and skill, its a godawful system.
- Play HotS for 3 months as a new account: You can easily own 10+ heroes (since this is what I had easily) based on average hero price and everything you play is just as good as the opponents.

There is literally no comparison. I will state it again; if you are already invested into LoL I understand your logic. I am speaking for new players or people starting the game. At the "endgame" or whatever once you get all heroes to lvl 9, yes LoL is better for costs. However that's a year down the road and you will already own all the heroes in HotS anyway.

But this is dead wrong info

its simply wrong

1.
How much do you play in those three months?

2.
LoL gives lvl 5 accounts 400 free rp. You can buy an expensive champ on sale for that.

3.
You do NOT buy runes at low level.

4.
Dont buy additional rune pages. Its not needed until you get a high champ pool

[Hand Banana]

It's a non issue cause LoL has actually WORKING matchmaking system (not pure random one like in Hots). So even if you queue in with friend that is 30 and you are 10, you will get an opposing team that is also mixed lvl opponents.

The difference is player level/runes makes no difference on the power level of the hero being played in HotS, while it does in LoL. I agree that HotS matchmaking is pretty bad don't get me wrong (usually its a comp issue and not really a skill issue), but I only played LoL with friends and with them being all lvl 30 OFC I would always be matched against other max level players. Impossible to get better and learn proper play when you are constantly weaker than opponents who can just overpower you. And if you even try to say "well don't play with friends" you are not a person I would even want to talk too since HotS encourages playing with friends (for bonus XP).

But this is dead wrong info

its simply wrong

1.
How much do you play in those three months?

The math I would use would be 3 games a day, 50% WL and completing the HotS daily whatever it is (3 games a day you will never miss getting a new daily, where as you can not win in LoL and miss the bonus. I would make it an average OFC).

2.
LoL gives lvl 5 accounts 400 free rp. You can buy an expensive champ on sale for that.

Yes they do. You can use it to buy whatever you want. Probably need to use it on Rune pages though unless you want to be subpar.

3.
You do NOT buy runes at low level.

Yup you don't. You save all your IP to buy the best ones. Which means you don't buy any champs until you have been playing for over a month at least while being weaker than any 20+ lvl players who have runes. Great system.

4.
Dont buy additional rune pages. Its not needed until you get a high champ pool

If you enjoy being weaker than other players on specific champs then sure don't buy them. If you only want to be able to play 2 roles then that's fine too. Not really something I enjoy limiting myself to when playing a skill-centric game.

[Toppy]

people bitch about hots?
i only see people bitching about the matchmaking which is horrible.
nothing else.

To be fair, isnt "terrible match making" a common complaint in every single mobo out there?

[Teye]

Team 2 is half a level behind team 1, and is one fort behind. They've gotten some decent hero kills, but their objective work has been really poor. Team 1 hits 10, and the catch up mechanic engages, sending team 2 into literal overdrive on their leveling. Soon, they're 13 and team 1 is 12, leading to a bad team fight for team 1 over an objective. This loses team 1 the game.

It went from being gg for the team that hits 10 first, to being gg for the team that's just barely behind at 10. Blizzard balancing at its average, they literally always over-do it with things like this.


As far as matchmaking, my issue is with the MMR system. I have a 53% win-rate in Quick Match and a 2300 MMR. Not great, not awful. My fiance, who had never touched a Moba before, jumped in and started playing Kael on solo queue in July. She lost her first 10 straight games, so I started queuing with her and taught her a few things.

She now has a 55% win-rate, (Better than me) but with a 1700 MMR. She literally cannot solo queue without getting paired with brand new players, bad players, or griefers who just spam chat and intentionally die or leave, costing her the game. MMR needs to reset every few months, or just have a balancing mechanic that de-values MMR lost or gained as time goes by. This will help players who started bad and got good, rather than punishing them until they literally get a new account.

[Caelnir]

HotS is horrible.



Slow pace. No last hits. No gold.

I will never understand this "No last hits" complaint. Why everyone cares about the last hit so much? What does it matter as long as enemy dies and you win the match. I hated when people fought over kill stealing in LoL, made me hate the game even more. If you mean minion last hit, I am very grateful Hots doesn't have that either.

[Toppy]

I will never understand this "No last hits" complaint. Why everyone cares about the last hit so much? What does it matter as long as enemy dies and you win the match. I hated when people fought over kill stealing in LoL, made me hate the game even more. If you mean minion last hit, I am very grateful Hots doesn't have that either.

Lets be perfectly honest. Most complaints aimed at HotS either.

1. Can be applied to other MOBA

or

2. Amount to "Its not the exact same/almost the exact same as DOTA!"

[Hand Banana]

Team 2 is half a level behind team 1, and is one fort behind. They've gotten some decent hero kills, but their objective work has been really poor. Team 1 hits 10, and the catch up mechanic engages, sending team 2 into literal overdrive on their leveling. Soon, they're 13 and team 1 is 12, leading to a bad team fight for team 1 over an objective. This loses team 1 the game.

It went from being gg for the team that hits 10 first, to being gg for the team that's just barely behind at 10. Blizzard balancing at its average, they literally always over-do it with things like this.

I'm confused as to the point you are trying to make. Sounds like Team 1 got outplayed badly since they had the early advantage but let it slip away with sloppy play based on the XP. Factoring in kills, pushing, objectives, and team XP is all part of it. Team 1 had the early advantage and could have played the same XP game as team 2 but they didn't so they lost. Are you trying to say there's some hidden mechanic that made Team 2 gain more XP? If you are it's the first I've ever heard of it.

[Toppy]

I'm confused as to the point you are trying to make. Sounds like Team 1 got outplayed badly since they had the early advantage but let it slip away with sloppy play based on the XP. Factoring in kills, pushing, objectives, and team XP is all part of it. Team 1 had the early advantage and could have played the same XP game as team 2 but they didn't so they lost. Are you trying to say there's some hidden mechanic that made Team 2 gain more XP? If you are it's the first I've ever heard of it.

There is a catch up mechanic, the thing is it starts weak, gets strong as the gap gets larger, but as the gap closes it gets weaker.

So no, the catch up mechanic wont magically make one team higher level than the other. It'll just allow them to close the gap.

[Deleted]

The difference is player level/runes makes no difference on the power level of the hero being played in HotS, while it does in LoL. I agree that HotS matchmaking is pretty bad don't get me wrong (usually its a comp issue and not really a skill issue), but I only played LoL with friends and with them being all lvl 30 OFC I would always be matched against other max level players. Impossible to get better and learn proper play when you are constantly weaker than opponents who can just overpower you. And if you even try to say "well don't play with friends" you are not a person I would even want to talk too since HotS encourages playing with friends (for bonus XP).

I don't get it. I just explained it to you that the other team in LoL will ALSO have mixed setup (high and low lvl players). If you got a lane against high level player that means their low lvl player has it also :P. So everything is more than fair.

Lets be perfectly honest. Most complaints aimed at HotS either.
1. Can be applied to other MOBA

Not really. Hots has currently the worst matchmaking system in the whole moba genre - or at least among those games that are at least semi-relevant : LoL, Smite, Dota2 etc. It has terrible monetization model. Comparing prices for not only heroes but also cosmetics in other mobas can give you a head spin. It also has the worst case of snowballing and shallow gameplay. So no, you can't apply those complaints to other mobas.

2. Amount to "Its not the exact same/almost the exact same as DOTA!"

I'm so tired of explaining this over and over gain: no one in their right mind want lasthitting or an item shop in Hots. What this game could use is more rewarding mechanic for individual player and deeper gameplay - which can be achieved in different ways than in other mobas...

[Deleted]

The difference is player level/runes makes no difference on the power level of the hero being played in HotS, while it does in LoL. I agree that HotS matchmaking is pretty bad don't get me wrong (usually its a comp issue and not really a skill issue), but I only played LoL with friends and with them being all lvl 30 OFC I would always be matched against other max level players. Impossible to get better and learn proper play when you are constantly weaker than opponents who can just overpower you. And if you even try to say "well don't play with friends" you are not a person I would even want to talk too since HotS encourages playing with friends (for bonus XP).



The math I would use would be 3 games a day, 50% WL and completing the HotS daily whatever it is (3 games a day you will never miss getting a new daily, where as you can not win in LoL and miss the bonus. I would make it an average OFC).



Yes they do. You can use it to buy whatever you want. Probably need to use it on Rune pages though unless you want to be subpar.



Yup you don't. You save all your IP to buy the best ones. Which means you don't buy any champs until you have been playing for over a month at least while being weaker than any 20+ lvl players who have runes. Great system.



If you enjoy being weaker than other players on specific champs then sure don't buy them. If you only want to be able to play 2 roles then that's fine too. Not really something I enjoy limiting myself to when playing a skill-centric game.

If you, at level 5, buy rune pages then you are the problem not the game.

Obviosuly you wont listen to reason but fuck it.

Just because you CAN buy thigns with ip doesnt mean you HAVE to.

You can buy summoner icons aswell. Server changes, name changes.


Pre level 20 runes do not do that much(and are cheap as fuck anyways).

You realyl should try and at least fucking get the facts straight before spewing random shit you dont know anything about

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair, isnt "terrible match making" a common complaint in every single mobo out there?

No its not. And no you cant apply the bad thigns said about hots to other games. Why would people say them then?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't get it. I just explained it to you that the other team in LoL will ALSO have mixed setup (high and low lvl players). If you got a lane against high level player that means their low lvl player has it also :P. So everything is more than fair.

Not really. Hots has currently the worst matchmaking system in the whole moba genre - or at least among those games that are at least semi-relevant : LoL, Smite, Dota2 etc. It has terrible monetization model. Comparing prices for not only heroes but also cosmetics in other mobas can give you a head spin. It also has the worst case of snowballing and shallow gameplay. So no, you can't apply those complaints to other mobas.
I'm so tired of explaining this over and over gain: no one in their right mind want lasthitting or an item shop in Hots. What this game could use is more rewarding mechanic for individual player and deeper gameplay - which can be achieved in different ways than in other mobas...

He pretty much only sees what he wants to see i guess.

Facts do not exist in his world

- - - Updated - - -

I will never understand this "No last hits" complaint. Why everyone cares about the last hit so much? What does it matter as long as enemy dies and you win the match. I hated when people fought over kill stealing in LoL, made me hate the game even more. If you mean minion last hit, I am very grateful Hots doesn't have that either.

YOu have to be bronze 5 for people to argue over kill stealing. And kill stealing and last hitting isnt the same fyi

[Eats Compost]

A mix of things give HotS some trouble right now. Talents + team levels mean that there are heavily ingrained power spikes that can be harsh even when both teams are close. New hero/reworked hero balance has to be dealt with a lot more effectively, too - a hero going unnerfed for 2 weeks is okay in a vacuum, but if a new hero is being released every 4-5 weeks, that means players are dealing with a ridiculous hero 40-50% of the time, which just isn't okay. There's also a few quality-of-life issues that they have to iron out, like the reconnect system.

It's a good game, but there are some things that they could definitely readily improve, and unfortunately some of these are issues that might be frustrating enough to make players jump to another game.

[Deleted]

Ranked system is a joke, getting to the top is stupidly easy and doesn't feeling rewarding at all.
Match making is literally worst ever.

It's a casual game, and as such it's fun, playing a game now and then it's okay, but for me personally it becomes extremely boring quick and I can't play it for long. Coin flip of whether you get a good or bad team and who you get mached up against is retarded, as that is most important factor in whether you'll win or lose. Matchmaking also doesn't help, 95% of games being either hard stomp or getting stomped hard due to shit MM is extremely un-fun.

You can be the best player in the world but if your team sucks dick you're more then likely going to lose which is not fun. Don't get me wrong, it's not about epeen or anything, but playing really good and getting smashed cause your team sucks is just not fun. In other Mobas if you get worse team you can still come back and do a lot by playing well yourself, which is not really the case in HotS as personal responsibility is non existent.

[RH92]

Totally out off topic, but it always baffles me how many unfamiliar faces show up in threads like those to spill their hatred.

For some reason I find it interesting that people like to express their judgements despite having little experience in said matter. Also why are people more ready to express their negative opinions? Super weird.

...which is not really the case in HotS as personal responsibility is non existent.

Uhm? I find the exact opposite a truth, if your actions affect your whole team I think the responsibility is even higher.

I find HotS to be a team sport, like Ice Hockey, Football, Rugby and so on. It is a team effort, one personal screw up can lead to a goal or points scored which punishes every single person on that team.

On the other hand I find other games to be a team sport similar to a Cycling. You don't really need to be that good on personal level if you can help to carry your team mate. The difference is just a team wins in comparison to Cycling. I am not saying there is no team effort involved. It is just very different, you can't really say Chris Froome sucks donkey ass because there were like 5 other guys helping him to secure a win, nor you can say those 5 other guys sucked because they helped him.

[Toppy]

No its not. And no you cant apply the bad thigns said about hots to other games. Why would people say them then?

I just know that for at least the other two major MOBA: DOTA2 and LoL, I've heard almost nothing but complaints about their match making system, so to see that applied to HotS as well raises some flags.

[Deleted]

I just know that for at least the other two major MOBA: DOTA2 and LoL, I've heard almost nothing but complaints about their match making system, so to see that applied to HotS as well raises some flags.

Well.

AS a competitive online game obviosuly the matchmaking is going to get some heat when people feel like they are playing against players better then themselves.

I cant agree with your statement though. As someone who plays a lot of different moba's LoL and Dota both have great matchmaking engines(i'm saying that while not liking dota at all mind you)

[Slant]

It's a non issue cause LoL has actually WORKING matchmaking system (not pure random one like in Hots). So even if you queue in with friend that is 30 and you are 10, you will get an opposing team that is also mixed lvl opponents. Again, that's the advantage of having proper matchmaking - something Blizzard can't figure out for 10 years now. Overwatch has the same if not worse MM too...

Hmm.. 3 months? Sure. Take it to 6 and LoL will leave you behind and considering all mobas are about long term "commitment" 6 months is nothing.

Again, I know that some of the critique of Hots may sound like "stop liking what I don't like". But believe me, Hots has serious issues to the point that I would argue companies should be held responsible for releasing half-assed-cash-grabbing products like that.

How's LoL leaving me behind? I have all the heroes in HotS and I generate more gold than I pay for new heroes at the high 15k price. Just by doing the dailies. If I don't like any of the future skins, I'll never pay a dime for Heroes again like this.