Legion's catch-22 situation

[Deleted]

Raw subscription data does not indicate any particular correlation. There is as much evidence in this to suggest adding Worgen to the game has resulted in Blizzard being unable to retain customers since Cataclysm.

While the logic of what you're saying is sound, I don't think it applies to this particular instance. Of course one feature does not represent the game itself. But this was a comment about WoD itself; and WoD does represent WoD itself. The spike in subs indicate a certain level of expectation for the game, and the drop indicates that these expectations were not met. One quick reference with any standard dictionary will conclude that WoD was a categorical disappointment.

[Desparil]

While the logic of what you're saying is sound, I don't think it applies to this particular instance. Of course one feature does not represent the game itself. But this was a comment about WoD itself; and WoD does represent WoD itself. The spike in subs indicate a certain level of expectation for the game, and the drop indicates that these expectations were not met. One quick reference with any standard dictionary will conclude that WoD was a categorical disappointment.

That chart doesn't indicate any sort of expectation for all you know all people that left in 3 month time had a blast in WoD they just left because thats what they do when they finish leveling in game and leveling in WoD is pretty fast and streamlined. Without knowing more data that chart is useless it only shows general product decline with cyclical spikes when expansion or major patch is released.
By your reasoning WoD is better then most of vanilla and cataclysm as good as tbc and better then mop, dragon soul is better then tot if you are just blindly going to look at subs.

You are just doing what most of people on this forum are doing you are cherry picking data that supports your argument and ignore rest, we get it you dont like WoD and its alright you dont have to but stop acting like you know what people that quit think.

[Deleted]

Same game its always been.

Agreed. WoW is still WoW, mechanics never change. You still run around hitting stuff with your spells/weapons and it dies. I've been playing since Vanilla and haven't seen the game really change much, just new dungeons and features ( which result in the game still feeling the same ).

I really enjoyed WOD and I'm continuing to, the raid content has been great and the PvP balance is about the same it's ever been, leaning towards a few certain comps stomped the meta. Game is old, people can't move on, hence the QQ over forums..

[Magnosh]

I think its situation where both Blizzard and the players need to work together. Let me explain, players should pressure Blizzard to deliver the best experience possible by not buy pre release as they did with WoD, in fact WoD pre release money was so huge that Blizzard stop caring about it after launch and just focus on the new expansion. Meanwhile Blizzard needs to feel the threat of not getting all the expected money and work towards delivering a good product.

The big difference people don't understand is this,
Players perspective: there is NO difference between buying Legion 10 months ahead or buying it the day before Launch.
Blizzard perspective: seeing low income a month or two before Launch will make them work harder to deliver a good product to hype players to buy it

Ofc if you are buying a physical edition where it usually sells out its understandable that you pre order it.

With this situation players will be able to buy the game and experience it as it should without the fear of a terrible expansion nor the need read a review.

[Deleted]

That chart doesn't indicate any sort of expectation for all you know all people that left in 3 month time had a blast in WoD they just left because thats what they do when they finish leveling in game and leveling in WoD is pretty fast and streamlined. Without knowing more data that chart is useless it only shows general product decline with cyclical spikes when expansion or major patch is released.
By your reasoning WoD is better then most of vanilla and cataclysm as good as tbc and better then mop, dragon soul is better then tot if you are just blindly going to look at subs.

You are just doing what most of people on this forum are doing you are cherry picking data that supports your argument and ignore rest, we get it you dont like WoD and its alright you dont have to but stop acting like you know what people that quit think.

You've missed the point; sub numbers are not the indicative information; it's sub retention with regards to sub numbers. This is why the first three expansions visibly met and exceeded expectations, and why the latter three have not met said expectations. A standard was set, and that standard is no longer able to be reproduced by Blizzard. This leads to a disappointing expansion when the game is advertised as it was. There are also none of the 'cyclical spikes' for major content patches that you speak of.

Sub number:retention does very much indicates a level of expectation. People don't buy games if they don't have expectations that the game will be worth playing. They also don't stop playing games (barring extreme circumstances) if the game meets those expectations. And before you say 'People stop playing when they complete games', an MMO is designed to keep players subscribed for as long as possible, and WoD failed colossally in that regard. It's a disappointment to Blizzard and it's a disappointment to the literal millions of players that expected a certain standard of quality for the expansion.

And this isn't cherry-picking. I couldn't find any reviews that weren't made post 02/15 that have any conflicting words. The constantly-updating Metacritic user score puts it at 6.0, which for a game that's king of its genre from one of the most prestigious companies, is pretty clearly a disappointment. Could also mention that Blizz are now refusing to reveal their sub numbers, which suggests they're not only disappointed but also ashamed of this release.

But if you have any conflicting evidence, I'd be interested to read it.

[ro9ue]

I actually find the best experience is about 1-2 weeks after launch. No lag, still a considerable amount of players leveling up and basically all of the people who burn through that stuff to get to raiding have completed it already. There is nothing more annoying as a player who likes to level slowly, watch cutscenes and read quest text to be thrown into the mix with a bunch of "Go, go, go" guys as soon as the expansion hits.

2 weeks out is best.

[grandgato]

They also don't stop playing games (barring extreme circumstances) if the game meets those expectations.

This is an opinion, and easily refutable from any number of anecdotal examples.

And before you say 'People stop playing when they complete games', an MMO is designed to keep players subscribed for as long as possible, and WoD failed colossally in that regard.

If this were the case, the FTP or BTP MMO would not exist. Games like Destiny and The Division have been extremely successful without a monthly fee.

It's a disappointment to Blizzard and it's a disappointment to the literal millions of players that expected a certain standard of quality for the expansion

The decreased number of subscriptions is certainly a fact; however, what percentage, if any, that can be correlated to Warlords not meeting some perceived standard of quality is an opinion.

[MoanaLisa]

Does blizz want to sell expansions and in game sales, or do they want to try to keep subs?

People might be surprised at the answer to that. Based on what they've said over the last few years and how their message has changed with the acceptance of cyclical subscribers and the rest they are rapidly moving to selling over subscriptions.

Subscription revenue is gravy and of course they aren't about to abandon that but the entire push for more frequent expansions and the rest speaks for itself. I'm presuming that in the best of all possible worlds for Blizzard, expansion sales alone would pay for the cost of developing the next expansion.

[Kazgrel]

It's been really tough! Especially coming around this forum and seeing all the news. I just don't want to get burned again, I don't wanna buy into another WoD.

You, me, and a LOT of other folks on that boat.

We did equip it with Unsinkable, right?

[mizeri]

wont matter, they will have sales in the millions before it comes out, i am sure they already do

[bloodmoth13]

After WoD's disappointment, there are people who are now extremely cautious when it comes to Blizzard products, and are going to wait until after Legion launch and until after the reviews are in to see if it is worth buying and if enough has actually been delivered.

However, the problem Blizzard faces here is that WoW is best enjoyed at the very start of the expansion. Therefore it is in Blizzard's best interests to get as many players in at the very start as possible. But if players are holding out for reviews, etc. they won't be able to enjoy Legion at its best and may be even more disappointed.

Is there anything that Blizzard can do to fix this catch-22 situation? What can Blizzard say or do before Legion launch to assure the playerbase that Legion won't be another WoD and to get as many people playing at launch?

It will take a few days to get reviews, once reviews are seen players will make decisions.
Most players wont worry about playing on patch day, and content wont become irrelevant till much later.

Wont be a problem unless blizz are relying on day 1 sales to prove how good it is

[Armourboy]

Agreed. WoW is still WoW, mechanics never change. You still run around hitting stuff with your spells/weapons and it dies. I've been playing since Vanilla and haven't seen the game really change much, just new dungeons and features ( which result in the game still feeling the same ).

I really enjoyed WOD and I'm continuing to, the raid content has been great and the PvP balance is about the same it's ever been, leaning towards a few certain comps stomped the meta. Game is old, people can't move on, hence the QQ over forums..

I thought the same way until I started playing Vanilla again, the difference in how the game feels and plays is pretty big. Yeah if you go in a list and say, we still do this and that, it hasn't changed much, but having a chance to try it out again, the experience is night and day.

Leveling still exists, Raiding still exists, 5 mans and so on, but how it all works together and how you get it done is completely different. I still have an active sub so I'm not one of those rose colored guys that can't let go, but the contrast between the two experiences is there. We are like the frog in the pot, don't really notice that temp rising slowly.

Also I'll add I think the praise the leveling gets in WoD is way over done. I've just decided people liked it because it took a couple of days and was easy enough an amoeba could do it.

[Meiluy]

I find it funny how many people say they were disappointed with WoD, yet still put in 100+ hours into the game during the expansions life... you clearly got more for your money than most triple A titles, yet endlessly complain that Blizzard failed to give you a good product...

[Kazgrel]

I find it funny how many people say they were disappointed with WoD, yet still put in 100+ hours into the game during the expansions life... you clearly got more for your money than most triple A titles, yet endlessly complain that Blizzard failed to give you a good product...

Said people could be just sticking around to stockpile gold in hope that Legion won't suck as much, heh.

[Armourboy]

I find it funny how many people say they were disappointed with WoD, yet still put in 100+ hours into the game during the expansions life... you clearly got more for your money than most triple A titles, yet endlessly complain that Blizzard failed to give you a good product...

Not gonna lie, I've kept an active sub for one reason and one reason alone for the past year, the amount of gold I'm making is stupid and means I won't need to really ever worry about it again. Also helps that there is zero money coming out of my pocket anymore for it.

[Meiluy]

Said people could be just sticking around to stockpile gold in hope that Legion won't suck as much, heh.

I'm actually referring to regular play time, not Garrison "dailies". I've had guild members who've been there for every raid night complaining how there's nothing to do... and yet they're still showing up, and doing other stuff in game as well. There just seems to be a sense of entitlement within the community nowadays that I don't remember back in Vanilla, BC and Wrath... I dunno man.

[Armourboy]

I'm actually referring to regular play time, not Garrison "dailies". I've had guild members who've been there for every raid night complaining how there's nothing to do... and yet they're still showing up, and doing other stuff in game as well. There just seems to be a sense of entitlement within the community nowadays that I don't remember back in Vanilla, BC and Wrath... I dunno man.

Just because they are doing it doesn't mean they are enjoying it. People do things in WoW all the time they don't enjoy for various reasons. May be because they feel they owe it to other guild members, might be because it is the only way to go about doing something ( achievements) or just haven't reached the point where they can set it down yet.

I've played through a ton of crap content in this game and others before I learned to stop and put it down until something fun did come along.

[Meiluy]

Just because they are doing it doesn't mean they are enjoying it. People do things in WoW all the time they don't enjoy for various reasons. May be because they feel they owe it to other guild members, might be because it is the only way to go about doing something ( achievements) or just haven't reached the point where they can set it down yet.

I've played through a ton of crap content in this game and others before I learned to stop and put it down until something fun did come along.

But you're still playing it, is the point. It kills almost all power behind an argument like this. It'd be like going to a steak restaurant, eating all of your steak, then complaining to the waiter about how bad the steak is, and that the next one needs to be better. You consumed the steak. You didn't stop part way through because you didn't like it, but kept going and finished it regardless. Then, to top it off, you express interest in the next steak, even though you didn't like the one you just ate.

[Deleted]

This is an opinion, and easily refutable from any number of anecdotal examples.

It's not an opinion that people stop playing games because games aren't good. It's pretty much the only metric by which 'good' can be measured. As a side-note, I believe it was you that earlier said that announcing evidence without presenting it makes one look like a dunce?

If this were the case, the FTP or BTP MMO would not exist. Games like Destiny and The Division have been extremely successful without a monthly fee.

I guess this is a troll comment, since comparing sub games to f2p games is silly.

The decreased number of subscriptions is certainly a fact; however, what percentage, if any, that can be correlated to Warlords not meeting some perceived standard of quality is an opinion.

It's not an opinion that several million people resubbed for WoD and the unsubbed right after realising just what state it was in. That's not an opinion; whether or not you believe it doesn't change it. It's also not an opinion that people will not continue paying and playing a game that does not provide them with what they want from that game. You might argue that these people only actually wanted a month of gameplay, but since a spike of this magnitude has never happened before in WoW's recorded history, the onus would be on you to back that up. That's after trying to justify why the subs continued to drop and didn't simply plateau after these month-players left.

[Desparil]

It's not an opinion that people stop playing games because games aren't good. It's pretty much the only metric by which 'good' can be measured.

Its definition of opinion since if you dont have data why they quit its well just your opinion.

Lets go at it this way you say people quit because game isnt any good and i say people quit because lets say they got kids, you cant prove your claim and i cant prove mine making it opinion.