Blizzard needs to stop (PTR)ing raids for new content.

[PosPosPos]

I think it would be a great idea to cycle the top guild of every tier in either the US or EU to be a raid tester for the next tier ie, Method/Serenity finished this tier first, they test T19 and only they test T19, and their guild is taken out of the race for that tier. Blizzard can pay them to test.

It not only changes who wins the race every tier, it also incentivizes players to try and go for a world first.

Yeah, and this suggestion incentivizes people to think u of actual ideas and solutions which aren't entirely retarded.

[owbu]

Not quite sure, where the difference would be for players, who dont PTR right now (except for the content being more buggy)
There will still be guilds who will raid 80 hours within the first week, who will progress way faster than you and create guides/videos on the bosses, before you reach them. The only way to stop getting spoiled is to not look at these guides, when you go raiding. Which, out of experience, is impossible to do in a 20 man group, because there are ALWAYS people, who dont share your views on if its fun to find out stuff yourself or not.

[youngt913]

hey he;s cool

[borrborr]

Look at alpha. They may say it's not like this, but streamers and top mythic guilds usually get first invites. Why streamers? Half of them only play for fun of pvp and don't even raid. And if their streaming alpha, people watching are going to see the unfinished content.

[Albimoo]

Look at alpha. They may say it's not like this, but streamers and top mythic guilds usually get first invites. Why streamers? Half of them only play for fun of pvp and don't even raid. And if their streaming alpha, people watching are going to see the unfinished content.

Not really sure the point you're trying to make. There is no "usually get invites" or "they say it's not like this"; all mythic raiders with 3 archimonde kills a while ago got alpha access. It would make sense as to why blizzard wants these players who are obviously relatively capable at their class and have a greater interest in the min/max side of the game.

As for streamers, they get it to generate hype, and it works. People who watch streamers have fun playing alpha get way more interested in the game, everyone understands it's not finished.

[Deleted]

everyone understands it's not finished

That's not true.

[Albimoo]

That's not true.

Well then that's their bad. It is ALPHA TESTING, the game is not about to be released, a lot isn't set in stone and virtually no balance has been done. If people want to be foolish that's their perogative but it's not blizzards fault. And I'm saying all this while still thinking blizzard has greatly fucked up with wow in the recent past and there are a lot of things in alpha I don't particularly like. I'm not white knighting them, but everything that happens with their moronic bolster base isn't their fault.

[anaxie]

Savage FFXIV matches WoW in terms of difficulty. WoW is ahead, but it isn't enough where one game can be fully tested internally and the other can't. On top of that WoW has much more money to pay testers to get it done right.

I agree, Blizzard needs to fully internally test raids like FFXIV does. Players need to be in the dark when walking in to bosses if they want them to last more than a week or two. Thinks like dungeon journal are also problems in this regard, players can know 100% of what a boss does before ever seeing it on live servers.

Blizzards test team has gotten a ton better and they need to use them correctly to test all bosses and only them. Drop DJ out of the game until LFR opens up each time so that LFR players can know whats up or people stuck on bosses the same.

- - - Updated - - -



Savage FFXIV matches WoW in terms of difficulty. WoW is ahead, but it isn't enough where one game can be fully tested internally and the other can't. On top of that WoW has much more money to pay testers to get it done right.

Are you new to raiding?

Not testing would be dreadful. If Blizzards first line of internal QA and players cant find stuff like

People act like Saronite bombs was a big incident. and it's the only one they can site.

off top of my head
~ Atremedes kiting sound outside room
~ Al Akir 25 man strat AKA leave 1/2 the raid at the entrance to win
~ Sinestra Oh hey look our DK put Wrack in Sinestra
~ Ra-den 1/2 fight ignored
~ Ragnaros H Triforce not intended by blizzard
~ Sha of Fear phase change boss to gain buff / wipe / pull again to kill/progress
~ Spine of Deathwing being an abortion
~ the very idea that having Vizir Zor having a random pattern was a good idea
~ Same as above but for Wipe Kings
~ Thank god player testing told them Klaxxi would be going 3for3 on retard mode and they didn't do it
I'm sure I missed moresomewhere.

There are hundreds more examples but having LESS QA raid testing vs more is in my opinion the most ignorant foolish idea to spout.

[IIamaKing]

Some one needs to test the raids though.

[Bethrezen]

OP, you're fucking idiot. Doubt you even do mythic raiding at all in the live game.

Infracted;

[Deleted]

Yes it would be amazing that we wouldn't have guides for almost every boss on patch day, but really I don't think Blizzard want to hire like 20 people that won't compete in world first race for 2-3 weeks like 2-3 times a year, and having really bugged raid just won't go well at this time where we are getting almost completely bug free raids on patch days.
Either way in mythic you still need to figure stuff out because every guide doesn't work for every team.

[Tuesdays]

Thepeople they use to test raids always have an advantage. its no wonder method paragon etc always got realm first etc. No others got a chance to see even a hint of a mechanic.

Doesn't matter anyways, because the internet exists.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

People who don't do PTR testing of raid bosses will watch guides. If you have to watch guides then PTR raid testing won't affect you the slightest, the only people who should care about PTR testing are those who want to compete in top raiding.

While you're at it why don't you take a bash at guides and encounter timers, maybe even Weak Auras.

Where raiding matters these days is effort and hours- the "skills" required to do hardcore raiding has dramatically declined over the years.

[brunnor]

Are you new to raiding?

Not testing would be dreadful. If Blizzards first line of internal QA and players cant find stuff like

People act like Saronite bombs was a big incident. and it's the only one they can site.

off top of my head
~ Atremedes kiting sound outside room
~ Al Akir 25 man strat AKA leave 1/2 the raid at the entrance to win
~ Sinestra Oh hey look our DK put Wrack in Sinestra
~ Ra-den 1/2 fight ignored
~ Ragnaros H Triforce not intended by blizzard
~ Sha of Fear phase change boss to gain buff / wipe / pull again to kill/progress
~ Spine of Deathwing being an abortion
~ the very idea that having Vizir Zor having a random pattern was a good idea
~ Same as above but for Wipe Kings
~ Thank god player testing told them Klaxxi would be going 3for3 on retard mode and they didn't do it
I'm sure I missed moresomewhere.

There are hundreds more examples but having LESS QA raid testing vs more is in my opinion the most ignorant foolish idea to spout.

Are you new to reading? And/or other MMORPGs? FFXIV, the second largest MMORPG, doesn't open PTR/Beta test raids. Their raids and dungeons come out much less buggy and better tested than WoW's do. Every bug you listed can easily be found given a good enough testing team and time. The only reason we have ptr/beta testing is so Blizzard can nickle and dime some more. If they really cared about this game, they'd spend money on it.

You also have to remember that all those listed bugs, were still there AFTER public testing, proving that open PTR/beta doesn't solve all problems. The fact that you only list Wrath+ bosses(and even only a single wrath one) makes me think you never played when ptr testing wasn't really much of a thing. Not knowing what you are missing and saying we shouldn't miss it, is a very uninformed way to live.

[anaxie]

Are you new to reading? And/or other MMORPGs? FFXIV, the second largest MMORPG, doesn't open PTR/Beta test raids. Their raids and dungeons come out much less buggy and better tested than WoW's do. Every bug you listed can easily be found given a good enough testing team and time. The only reason we have ptr/beta testing is so Blizzard can nickle and dime some more. If they really cared about this game, they'd spend money on it.

You also have to remember that all those listed bugs, were still there AFTER public testing, proving that open PTR/beta doesn't solve all problems. The fact that you only list Wrath+ bosses(and even only a single wrath one) makes me think you never played when ptr testing wasn't really much of a thing. Not knowing what you are missing and saying we shouldn't miss it, is a very uninformed way to live.

WoW raiding is way more mechanically complex than simplistic small scale FF14 raids. Infact, there are many raid bosses that have more mechanics then entire FF14 raid boss rosters. Also lets see how FF14 does a few years from now. You know once that content production backlog starts to run dry.

Also you do understand that at least for Sunwell and beyond PTR is damn near mandatory for the sheer complexity of fights and also for class tuning because you know. Blizzard uses the data from the raids not just to tune the raids but to develop the damn class changes.



Oh and of course you imply they spend nothing on the game.

Why don't you just go circle jerk to FF14 keep in mind that game was so bad on launch it died and had to be remade. which pretty much sums up that square isn't the end all be all person of QA

Lastly, a quick armory swipe shows you have little experience with these glaring issues from the top tier raiding in the past 10 years outside THIS expansion. bravo!

I'll introduce myself I'm Anaxie a retired MMOer from ALL relevant Western MMOs and the biggest elitist prick on these boards. get cozy.

[Lora]

As someone that remembers the lack of PTR for shit like BWL and AQ please allow me to put this as eloquently as I can; fuck off with that nonsense.

[Eleccybubb]

WoW raiding is way more mechanically complex than simplistic small scale FF14 raids. Also lets see how FF14 does a few years from now. You know once that content production backlog starts to run dry.

Oh and of course you imply they spend nothing on the game.

Why don't you just go circle jerk to FF14 keep in mind that game was so bad on launch it died and had to be remade.

And the remake has proven to be successful and tbf even the dev team admitted it sucked which is very rare of a company to come out and say "look this sucks, we are gonna try again and this time get it right". The same could be said of you and wow right now. But yeah PTR is needed for WoW. FF14 mechanics are rotational I think is the word. But enough of this because it's turning into a pointless game vs game thread now. WoW does need a PTR because it's fights are complex as hell especially Mythic end of.

[anaxie]

And the remake has proven to be successful and tbf even the dev team admitted it sucked which is very rare of a company to come out and say "look this sucks, we are gonna try again and this time get it right". The same could be said of you and wow right now. But yeah PTR is needed for WoW. FF14 mechanics are rotational I think is the word. But enough of this because it's turning into a pointless game vs game thread now. WoW does need a PTR because it's fights are complex as hell especially Mythic end of.

Which is a good thing but again. It still happened. Fortunately they turned it around and are far from being a trash MMO


But to say WoW and FF14 at the top end are even remotely on the same scale in complexity is laughable. At Best FF14 would be like Heroic. But still far less complexity in boss design.

but you pretty much agree with this so High Five

[Eleccybubb]

Which is a good thing but again. It still happened. Fortunately they turned it around and are far from being a trash MMO


But to say WoW and FF14 at the top end are even remotely on the same scale in complexity is laughable. At Best FF14 would be like Heroic. But still far less complexity in boss design.

but you pretty much agree with this so High Five

I agree both games Hardcore content is equally as challenging but with the amount of mechanics wow has it does need testing to make sure stuff is working. I imagine ff14 goes through in house testing before release instead of public.

[brunnor]

WoW raiding is way more mechanically complex than simplistic small scale FF14 raids. Infact, there are many raid bosses that have more mechanics then entire FF14 raid boss rosters. Also lets see how FF14 does a few years from now. You know once that content production backlog starts to run dry.

Also you do understand that at least for Sunwell and beyond PTR is damn near mandatory for the sheer complexity of fights and also for class tuning because you know. Blizzard uses the data from the raids not just to tune the raids but to develop the damn class changes.



Oh and of course you imply they spend nothing on the game.

Why don't you just go circle jerk to FF14 keep in mind that game was so bad on launch it died and had to be remade. which pretty much sums up that square isn't the end all be all person of QA

Lastly, a quick armory swipe shows you have little experience with these glaring issues from the top tier raiding in the past 10 years outside THIS expansion. bravo!

I'll introduce myself I'm Anaxie a retired MMOer from ALL relevant Western MMOs and the biggest elitist prick on these boards. get cozy.

You are just dumb and wrong all over the place, it's quite funny to read your posts. I guess I should expect that kind of thing from WoW fanboys.

Have you done any recent FFXIV bosses recently? I did the first round of expansion bosses and I can say that every single boss, even on the "normal" mode, had more mechanically to do than every mythic HFC boss minus Gore, Manno and Archi. The first, and only, savage boss I did had more than Gore and Manno in it, M:Archi was still ahead. I can only assume that the other 3 raid encounters of that "tier" could rival what Archi has because as someone who has done him, he isn't that hard.

Square realizes when it makes a sub par product and tries to fix it instead of milking people with sub par products, like Blizzard. How long does a product need to be out to meet your standards? Because with how expansions are to MMORPGs, the only length that matters is how long the xpac has been around, not the game.

I didn't say that didn't spend money on WoW. I said they didn't spend enough. I think anyone who has been playing the past few years can vouch that year+ long content droughts can easily be fixed by more money. Testing problems can be fixed by more money. Every problem this game has can be fixed by putting more profits back in to it and less in the pockets. The same can be said for almost every product out there though, so this isn't an exclusive Blizzard problem, but they can easily fix it.

Maybe, just MAYBE people switch mains between expansions. Narye on ZJ > Brunnorx on ZJ > Telepathy on Greymane > Sendaii on Greymane > Brunnor on Greymane. Brunnor was main from lanuch until Illidan, switched to Sendaii to tank from Illidan until LK, switched to my priest in ICC until the end of SoO and Narye since then. Every single one of them completed all content while current minus 2 bosses. Heroic Sha of fear(the one in ToES) and vanilla Kel'Thuzad(44% best pull). Can go back farther than that with other MMOs as well if you really want, but I figure that should be good enough to shut you up.