If by support spec you mean a spec that can heal others and has a raidwide(or not raidwide) buff/cd, then by all means lets include Fecal durids, Doomkins, Shadowpriests, Prot Paladins, Guardruids and whatnot.
Then lets compare shall we?
If by support spec you mean a spec that can heal others and has a raidwide(or not raidwide) buff/cd, then by all means lets include Fecal durids, Doomkins, Shadowpriests, Prot Paladins, Guardruids and whatnot.
Then lets compare shall we?
I think a support that's kinda nice was when Shadow Priests were like Mana Batteries during BC.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
I find it quit funny that it is always the Paladin who should be the buffbitch. But you hear rarely people saying the very same thing about , well every other class that isn't ret.
Like Druids for instance. Since Warcraft 3 they were primary supportiv, or Priests who were primary healers , or Shamans , who could deal dps but in both WC3 and classic were primary supporters. Hell even Deathknights were supporter Heroes in WC3.
So why are they never mentioned there? Their roles are by far more fitting as the supporters than a ret is.
Or how should this scenario play out?
A Ret Paladin is a Fanatic , Zealot like Paladin who is bent on the destruction of all evil that could do harm to the innocent.
They are bringers of justice , divine avengars. It was they under the command of the legendary Alexandros Morgrain - the Ashbringer - who have cleansed most of the Plaguelands from the undead. It was they - a broken Paladin order - who have obliterated Tens of Thousand of Scourge forces.
Their Paragon the Ashbringer killed hundrets of Undead in an blink of an eye and we now , our selfs in command of this mighty sword - the elected leader of the newly reformed silver hand and de facto leader of all Paladins , who are stepping into his very footsteps.
And now we shall lead the worlds forces against the looming threat of the mighty Burning Legion and the apocalyptic forces of the Old Gods.
We shall do so , with our mighty sword we will purge the taint from the world an -
No , wait a second it goes more like this. We shall do so , by supporting the crap outa our buddys while they are doing the work with our mighty sword - BUFFBRINGER.
And it shall be echoed throughout history - Ret you stupid cunt give me might or you are getting kicked from the raid.
I don't understand how a spec with such a rich lore, has such a disappointing talent tree/skills.
We were so close this expansion, only needing a gap closer, a meaningful raid/rbg utility, and some better interplay between our skills to complete the spec but they decided to just take a giant dump on it instead.
Other specs allow you to pick certain patterns that actually allow for meaningful changes to the play style, while we're stuck with the same crap that let you do x more damage or x more healing. There is little synergy and even less interaction between the skills.
[PvE Rant]:
Currently half the tree just seems like absolute garbage:
- Repentance: Why does it have a cast time.
- Blinding Light: Better now but still meh, definitely less interesting than Fist now that there are ways of lowering its cooldown.
- Justicar's Vengeance: Don't see the point in PvE when I can't stun the targets that I need to stun for the extra damage. 5HP!? ya right.
- E4E: Maybe tanks will let me taunt every minute to get some use out of this? Super useful cause raid damage is usually physical.
- Word of Glory: I'm a DPS!!! if shit goes sideways I have LoH and hand spells, if anything more is needed the raid has issues.
- DI: the old version was more fun, if this wasn't blocked by forbearance or had another effect maybe it'd be more fun.
- Steed / SoL: ahh the pity mobility talents that are in direct competition and don't even do their intended jobs well...Thanks so much blizz. Steed CD is way too high, SoL cost should not be 3HP. If we could have Steed on a 20s with +~20% baseline runspeed, I'd be happy I think.
- Level 100 talents: This should be the most exciting tier and everything on it is just SO bad. We got BoJ to force us into liking the crappy greater blessings, HW (the channelled cast for a melee spec), and Equality that's already been beaten to death by everyone since it's just terrible.
So we have 3 rows of okay-ish talents and 4 really bad ones. Even the okay ones offer very little in the way of meaningful/fun talents. It would be more acceptable to have crap niche talents if we actually had the tools we needed baseine, but we don't!
This game is heavily based on mobility and for a melee spec not to have it is as ridiculous as not having a viable interrupt.
Every melee DPS spec has to be able to do certain things without relying on talents (unless they're just there to make them better or offer a different play style). We need to have a gap closer, an interrupt, a cleave, an on-demand AoE that doesn't need 20 seconds to ramp up, and one non-healing utility that is needed by the group (and is hopefully not the current greater blessing system ugh).
There is nothing in Legion Ret that makes me excited to play it. Fury looks like a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to using different talent combinations for my Frost DK (even though they need help in mobility as well) that result in different play styles. Hell even though DHs look very simple, their crazy mobility alone seems like a blast to play. In the end it seems the only fantasy that's involved in playing this spec is the one I have of the devs finally making it fun and equal to the other specs that have everything given to them on a platter. Oh but we look really good as we aspire to being mediocre in most aspects of the game, so yay us!
@Thete props for the spot on Gimli reference. It made me burst out laughing until I realized how true it will be in game. Also a big fan of the videos, keep it up!
Last edited by Bolt66; 2016-03-28 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Saw Thete's hilarious prophecy of things to come.
Is that still the case? The last build's tooltip diff removed its "Replaces Blessing of Protection." text. (Not in Alpha, so I can't check myself.)
[edit: Come to think of it, it probably still does since that was the build they removed "Replaces Crusader Strike" from our T2 talents.]
Last edited by Alindra; 2016-03-28 at 12:49 AM.
A little overzealous there(Pun intended) but really we do more then buff. -500 DKP minus for any dev that thinks Paladins are buffbots.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
That's my concern. If GBoM doesn't have any DPS loss attached to it, but also is a marginal gain (like improving total raid's dmg by about 0'67% as somebody calculated a few weeks ago here on this thread) then you can buff it and forget it, because it doesn't make a difference. So it can simply be eliminated because has no impact at all.
If GBoM is potent enough to be a noticeable gain, then our output will be reduced so in the end, GBoM is not a buff nor a gain, but a compensation for taking a ret paladin and it overshadows any other GBlessings, making them less desirable.
In both cases however, it's a RNG inside a RNG. I can buff it to a warr in Executing phase but it can proc or not. And if it procs, it can be on a white autohit, on a trinket proc or something instead an Execute. So I need to be lucky two times: to proc and to proc from the attack I want.
This isn't about numbers or DPS, it's about game design, about fun and mechanics. If somebody finds fun to buff and wants again a Casino experiencie waiting for a proc on a particular skill, then OK. But I don't want that Casino experience again.I have had enough.
In short, if GBoM is barely noticeable then it shouldn't exist at all (it doesn't impact gameplay as Seals and the latter were eliminated) and if it is a real gain, then GBoW and GBoK will be scrapped by vast majority of players and our DPS will be nerfed accordingly making GBoM not a buff but a part of our "DPS rotation".
Out of interest, I would like you all to state with a single sentence, what do you find exciting about Ret come Legion.
Let's see who finds what to be interesting and fun.
I think those of us that have been at it for 10+ years know that its very unrealistic to think that Blizzard would make us more powerful than other melee, even with lower mobility. Maybe some sort of burst or some sort of compensation on the PvP tree. But in PvE? I really wish i could believe that, but until i see it coming from a blue, i will keep my expectations in check.
If it were the case, it would be a trade-off i could live with... though i think it will raise more problem's than it will solve (other specs would definitly find it unnaceptable). Adding some more mobility options and normalizing the damage seems like a better solution overall for the game. But, we shall see. Honestly i am more concerned about the talent tree and the way judgement only seems to work in one target making swapping targets quickly a real pain.
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I haven't and won't hide the fact that i find live Ret way more fun and interesting than Legion Ret. But it is what it is. I used to be excited about Ashbringer until i saw the price it came with. ^^
Well... i guess the new animations are pretty exciting though!
Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2016-03-28 at 01:55 AM.
Hmm Alright. I look forward to incorporating talents like zeal (haste buff), and the new holy power generators into our rotation. Since judgement has that damage frame window now, I look forward to that type of rotation and squeezing as many holy power spenders as I can within the time window. I personally like that playstyle, so that's what I'm looking forward to in terms of rotation. I Like that better than the proc system we have now (although both are interesting). That's opinion though.
Another thing would be the sweet animations. Raising ashbringer into the air (or any sword for that matter) to use a spell or attack is something I've always wanted honestly. So glad to see it incorporated here.
Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-03-28 at 02:02 AM.
I like what Live Ret is right now. Is it what what I think is the best? No not really but I think it can improve. If Alpha went live right now? I'd be miffed but I'd find a way to get through it because well... I made it this far, have to keep going.
Ashbringer ability idea: You slam Ashbringer into the ground, sending a Holy Nova of sorts in front of you. Stuns Undead and Demons for X seconds and does X damage. >.>
Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2016-03-28 at 02:23 AM.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
Up until all the other changes occurred, Hand of Hindrance and Wake of Ashes both sounded really good; a powerful ranged slow and an on demand AE the generates Holy Power and hits really hard AND slows sounded pretty great.
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Google asks: Did you mean Wake of Ashes? (minus the weaksauce animation)
I can advocate for steed being baseline as is and get burned at the alter.
Solsacra can advocate for the cooldown being increased by HALF and hardly get a mention.
i will say im glad to see him and anaxie post on this topic since they are actually well known posters here on this site. Welcome back the both of you however short lived it was.
All people in these forums need to know is to listen to Solsacra and ignore 99% of other posters. I havn't been around in any way since this expansion started so I'm not reliable but I can still see mechanical advantages when others scream herpity derpity.
I know people miss my blunt force common sense insight. But don't weep for me. I'm gone and the only presence I am going to have ever again is a retired mascot.who posts pictures of hookers and gets banned like clockwork for invading the safe space of fragile posters.
Last edited by anaxie; 2016-03-28 at 04:56 AM.
The only chance rets actually have to get a melee raid spot in Legion is if GBoM still remains so strong that Rets in fact will be stacked by the more serious guilds, obviously the likelyhood of GBoM staying as it is now (6.66%~ dps increase for the person who has the buff) is small. I'm just quietly waiting for Beta to get close to the end and Devs realize that Rets might be too popular and then hit it with the Hammer of Wrath (RIP, seriously what are they thinking...?)
For my taste they're taking ret too far away from it's core and turning it into a warrior, it's borderline desperate how much crap they've taken from the old Arms Warrior model and put on top of rets so far in Beta. While I see a lot of potential for pvp I don't exactly see the fun gameplay anywhere, even if in theory there's a lot of good scaling potential with 50% haste again looking like the end goal. I just can't shake the frustration of Colossus Smash-esc gameplay being forced on ret, a gameplay style we've never had before.
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