Festival, Robert De Niro pull anti-vaccination film

[Anonymous1038853]

You're wrong. You push more people into the other camp when you censor like this. Has no one ever heard of the Streisand effect?

That's not what the Streisand effect outlines. It says absolutely nothing about advocacy. The claim is that the censorship of a work invariably causes it more exposure. I don't think that means we should actively facilitate harmful misinformation.

[Berengil]

I am in full agreement with the science on this matter. It's indisputable. Vaccines do not cause autism.

That being said, there's another facet to this discussion. The jurisdictions that force parents to vaccinate their children or the parents face fines and jail time...this offends me deeply. Bar unvaccinated people from your schools/private property if you so wish. But the idea that the government can use law to force medical procedures on the unwilling? Disgusting and deeply offensive to me.

Again, bar those who are unvaccinated from anywhere you wish, but the idea that people can be compelled to undergo an unwanted medical procedure is tyrranical. For me, bodily autonomy is absolute.

[Simulacrum]

It's as much censorship as not teaching that life began from the poop of the celestial lobster.

Can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. The tone of the posts suggests disagreement, but the content doesn't.

[Garnier Fructis]

Again, bar those who are unvaccinated from anywhere you wish, but the idea that people can be compelled to undergo an unwanted medical procedure is tyrranical. For me, bodily autonomy is absolute.

The only reason it needs to be violated at all is because when you have too many idiots refusing to get vaccinated, the system starts to fail. Bodily autonomy is great and everything, but people are actually dying and diseases are returning. Blame Wakefield for ruining it, not the people mandating the vaccines.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I do.


You're putting a stop gap in the scientific process.

All ideas, whether right or wrong, begin as an outlier until the establishment gets blue in the face with facts.


And before you knee jerk "anti vaxxer!", i'm arguing this in principle and not in support of an idea.

People are welcome to research vaccine links to causing diseases.

Saying they cause diseases without the research to back it up is why people get shouted down.

[GodlyBob]

So true. The anti-vaxxer movement is one of many movements supported worldwide by people's stupidity and their strenght in their belief. No matter how many hard facts are thrown at them, they continue to believe the fairytale. And thus people refuse to believe that their child is autistic "by chance" (or genetics as a matter) and call out someone guilty as means to exteriorize their suffering. Or people that are adepts of Homeopathy and "natural" remedies. The main problem is that these movements generate money for the ones involved as idiots keep funding them or buying their products. I'm not saying that the pharmaceutical industry is an angel, no and far from it, but what they offer works. Whether you overpay or if you could take a better drug for a certain illness, that is debatable, but drugs come out on the shelves after animal and human testing, so you know that they will be efficient on a certain disease.

It's a little weird that people would prefer alternate medicine when vaccination in itself is homeopathic.

[THE Bigzoman]

You guys.

I made that post this morning.

We agree. I rescinded the statement. I didn't know that the idea and guy was chewed up and spat out. I also confused two different ideas.

[Wells]

It's a little weird that people would prefer alternate medicine when vaccination in itself is homeopathic.

Vaccines aren't a cure.

[RaoBurning]

It's a little weird that people would prefer alternate medicine when vaccination in itself is homeopathic.

Vaccination lacks the two defining characteristics of a Homeopathic solution: They don't operate on the "like cures like" idea, and they don't get stronger with further dilution. Also, they work. I guess that's three strikes.

[Kasierith]

It isn't censorship for someone to decide not to permit something in their show. That's like saying that if someone tells me to put a quote of theirs in my sig, I would be censoring them by refusing. Censoring involves preventing someone from speaking out; he didn't go to the guys home and burn all of the equipment containing the film to the ground, he simply refused to show it. The man continues to be free to show it at any locale that chooses to cater to his nonsense.

Even if it were a government run show, refusing it would not be censorship, because again, he retains the film and is free to use it in other media.

[Jakexe]

Anti-vaxxers are idiots. Robert De Niro is an idiot. He's in the camp that if a family member has a disease etc. it makes him an expert on the disease. He clearly did fuck all research on this role and deserves all the bullshit that gets thrown his way.

[GodlyBob]

Vaccines aren't a cure.

In practice, most homeopathic medicine is working as treatments rather than out and out cures. Semantics aside, the ideological principals behind Homeopathy are present within vaccines. Namely that like cures like and dilution can lead to potency.

I'm really toying with the general concept more than anything else, like trying to figure out if beer it's kosher or not. Homeopathy is kind of like alchemy to me, they have some historic basis that can hold up in specific cases, but the spirit behind the concepts is going to be fundamentally flawed based on modem empirical understanding of the world.

- - - Updated - - -

Vaccination lacks the two defining characteristics of a Homeopathic solution: They don't operate on the "like cures like" idea, and they don't get stronger with further dilution. Also, they work. I guess that's three strikes.

Using weakened pathogens to build immunity fills both criteria. You use the actual thing that causes the illness to prevent it and you use a small amount which becomes stronger within your system.

[Wells]

In practice, most homeopathic medicine is working as treatments rather than out and out cures. Semantics aside, the ideological principals behind Homeopathy are present within vaccines. Namely that like cures like and dilution can lead to potency.

I'm really toying with the general concept more than anything else, like trying to figure out if beer it's kosher or not. Homeopathy is kind of like alchemy to me, they have some historic basis that can hold up in specific cases, but the spirit behind the concepts is going to be fundamentally flawed based on modem empirical understanding of the world.

I'm not sure you understand what a vaccine is.

[GodlyBob]

I'm not sure you understand what a vaccine is.

I'm not sure you understand what homeopathy is. And let me reiterate, I don't think it's a valid way to guide medical procedures any more than trying to balance humours, but it can easily be interpreted to encompass many treatments which exist today.

[Kasierith]

I'm not sure you understand what homeopathy is. And let me reiterate, I don't think it's a valid way to guide medical procedures any more than trying to balance humours, but it can easily be interpreted to encompass many treatments which exist today.

That kind of depends on how far you're twisting homeopathy from its base definition.

[Endus]

I'm not sure you understand what homeopathy is.

You're basing all this on the homeopathic premise that "like cures like".

Well, vaccines don't rely on that premise in any way whatsoever. Not even remotely, by any reasonable argument. The only way you could argue that they're "homeopathic" is if you don't understand either (or both) what homeopathy is, or how vaccines work.

[Twix]

Anti-vaxxers are idiots. They're putting all of our children at risk. People need to believe in science.

[Kasierith]

Anti-vaxxers are idiots. They're putting all of our children at risk. People need to believe in science.

People don't need to "believe" in science; they need to get enough scientific knowledge to at least be basically literate in it and be able to look at the information. That's ultimately the biggest problem here; people have no idea how a vaccine works, and so it's just a needle filled with clear magic juice as opposed to something with very well defined causality.

[GodlyBob]

You're basing all this on the homeopathic premise that "like cures like".

Well, vaccines don't rely on that premise in any way whatsoever. Not even remotely, by any reasonable argument. The only way you could argue that they're "homeopathic" is if you don't understand either (or both) what homeopathy is, or how vaccines work.

Again, I understand that physically vaccines are not preventing disease by having pathogens magically cancel each other out within your body. I'm also not saying that we should rely on medicinal information whose functions have been proven inaccurate for centuries. What I am saying, is that if a soul can rationally twist the notion of these old ideas in oder to fit into a modern scientific understanding of biology and the immune system, they should have no trouble taking both the principal of like cures like and homeopathic dilution to encompass both the creation and application of vaccinations.

[Endus]

Anti-vaxxers are idiots. They're putting all of our children at risk. People need to believe in science.

The last thing we need is for people to "believe" in science. Science isn't about faith. It's about observable truth. What we need is for people to open their minds enough to cast off their baseless presumptions, and see the truth of reality. Don't believe in science, and don't believe in scientists. Believe in what your own eyes and brain will tell you, if you bother to look with an open mind, rather than lashing out with fear because the truth challenges your ignorance.