[Movie] Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Florena]

Except in the comics, Batman has a more strict no kill policy than the boy scout. Seriously, Batman DOES. NOT. KILL. This didn't make Batman more realistic or gritty, it showed Snyder and WB has no clue about their own characters and just thought explosions are cool.

Batman is tactical and strategic, not cold blooded.

Even in the comics not every itteration of Batman has had the no kill policy. Heck even the Nolan Batman that DID have it killed in all three movies, albeit in justifiable circumstances. Anyone who didn't make it out of the flaming monastery, Ras at the end. "I'm just not going to save you" doesn't count if you masterminded the crash in the first place Batman. Harvey Dent. Talia al Ghul.

[Svifnymr]

Except in the comics, Batman has a more strict no kill policy than the boy scout. Seriously, Batman DOES. NOT. KILL. This didn't make Batman more realistic or gritty, it showed Snyder and WB has no clue about their own characters and just thought explosions are cool.

Batman is tactical and strategic, not cold blooded.

This is another of those times where someone acts like there's only been 1 batman series and that it's rules were consistent across the decades. Many different series, many different authors, many different ethical/ moral systems. Some of them had a strict rule against killing, others not so strict.

[QuiksLE]

Except in the comics, Batman has a more strict no kill policy than the boy scout. Seriously, Batman DOES. NOT. KILL. This didn't make Batman more realistic or gritty, it showed Snyder and WB has no clue about their own characters and just thought explosions are cool.

Batman is tactical and strategic, not cold blooded.

hmm

[Mormolyce]

I still think those movies were the end of the first era of modern super hero movies that started back in the 90s, Blade included. If you think about it, they started with promise but burned out hard and fast. Iron Man was what really lit the current generation of films. If DC had continued with Batman after Nolan's trilogy instead of starting with Man of Steel, then I could point to those movies as the concrete start.

Personally I think Blade was part of the post-Schumacher lull.

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hmm

I've read that comic. Batman also shoots a truck up with the Batgyro (Batplane). Has a line in that panel, "Much as I hate to take human life, I'm afraid this time it's necessary".

If you want to talk about Batman and Superman as coherent characters, you have to ignore a lot of early installment weirdness.

I'll never forget Action Comics 4 where Superman jabs an innocent man with a needle to knock him out so he can steal his identity to infiltrate a sports betting ring.

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Even in the comics not every itteration of Batman has had the no kill policy. Heck even the Nolan Batman that DID have it killed in all three movies, albeit in justifiable circumstances. Anyone who didn't make it out of the flaming monastery, Ras at the end. "I'm just not going to save you" doesn't count if you masterminded the crash in the first place Batman. Harvey Dent. Talia al Ghul.

And he killed in Tim Burton's films too.

Generally he goes out of his way to avoid it though. And you never see him lay about with a gun like in BvS.

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Cool trumps logic in movies. Sometimes, it's really stupid though.

Also, I appreciated the darker Batman who killed people. He's been doing it for 20 years and seen some shit. Presumably, because he never killed Joker, Robin got killed. At least, that's what I took away from the costume with spray paint on it. I feel like they could have explained the change a little more clearly, but I enjoyed the take on it.

Which they could've set up in flashbacks instead of showing us the pearls scene again for the fiftieth time.

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Yeah they're the best youtube critics imo. Right amount of humor and actual content on the subject

They're pretty good, they definitely don't hold back when they hate something! Which I like, personally I feel like a lot of Youtube critics are the kind of softcocks whose X/10 rating system starts at 7.

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Difference between a critical success and a commercial success.

And one is much preferred by the production.

As evidenced by the four Bayformers movies.

Ugh.

[Faroth]

This is another of those times where someone acts like there's only been 1 batman series and that it's rules were consistent across the decades. Many different series, many different authors, many different ethical/ moral systems. Some of them had a strict rule against killing, others not so strict.

Across those many different series, what's been the most prominent aspect of the character across 75 years? I'm willing to wager the vast majority of all iterations of Batman weigh far heavier towards no kill than openly murdering.

If Batman brazenly doesn't care about murdering common mercenaries, can you think of a single explanation for Joker being incarcerated?

It was lazy movie writing, plain and simple, while simultaneously missing an opportunity for him to have a plethora of cool non-lethal gadgets to deploy across the scenes.

I've always thought the past movie murders were out of character as well.

[Mormolyce]

Why does lex luthor know batman and supermans secret identities?

This was seriously never addressed. Presumably he's been researching them? Fucking ridiculous how little these movies give a shit about secret identities, which are integral parts of their characters and NECESSARY.

Saw BvS in IMAX last night. It was pretty neat.

Most of the people walking out of the movie were quite positive on the film it seemed. Audience was cheering during the big fight, cheering for Wonder Woman (it's kinda neat that both screenings I saw had the loudest applause for WW), lot of 'fuck yea!' when the big 3 were together, etc.

It was a late show (9:30) and 21+ too. So a mostly older crowd.

The theatre I was in was like attending a funeral (and not just at the end). For the first hour and a half people were playing with their phones. Midway through one guy let out a huge sigh and my wife and I pissed ourselves laughing because we were all feeling it. No fun was had in that cinema.

except age of ultron was good

I found it disappointing and messy, but it was still way above the level of BvS.

Considering its running about .5 ratingwise under Avengers on major sites and the same as Ultron, all this talk of it being terrible doesn't really hold up. The audiences, which are the major deciders of things decide success.

With a year plus long marketing campaign, this movie was always going to succeed commercially.

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Across those many different series, what's been the most prominent aspect of the character across 75 years? I'm willing to wager the vast majority of all iterations of Batman weigh far heavier towards no kill than openly murdering.

Mostly just in the movies since 1989.

I feel like the makers of this movie just don't know how to make a "cool" scene other than smashing through buildings or kung-fu murdering people.

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But when DC/WB makes a movie targeting comic book fans they get slammed ? i counted 10 scenes and dialogues ripped directly word for word, line for line from comic books, and here lies the problem with critics and the move getting a bad rep.

It's extremely unfaithful to the comics other than DKR, because Snyder (obviously) has a big hardon for Milller.

DKR is very out of character for Batman because it's a possible future Elseworlds type story outside the main continuity.

dont know why routh is there, superman returns was well recieved and did well, it just had such a huge budget that it couldnt make its money back despite having done 400 million

Personally I think Superman Returns was very underrated. Definitely has problems, but gets many important things right, and is leagues ahead of garbage like Man of Steel and BvS.

Henry Cavill is a great actor, and a great Superman when the script allows him to be. But for whatever reason, it doesn't do that very often.

Basically, like MoS this story was written by an idiot. The end.

[Svifnymr]

Across those many different series, what's been the most prominent aspect of the character across 75 years? I'm willing to wager the vast majority of all iterations of Batman weigh far heavier towards no kill than openly murdering.

But he HAS killed in plenty of the comics across the decades. You can write off this one as too early, that one as a side thing, this one as something else, but the DC universe has been rebooted enough times that who even KNOWS which Batman is "real". Generally they want to have him not gunning folks down so he's different than someone like the Punishers, but even when he doesn't directly kill, it's not like there's no criminals dying or being so badly wounded they probably wish for death...

If Batman brazenly doesn't care about murdering common mercenaries, can you think of a single explanation for Joker being incarcerated?

Because they need recurring villains? :-p
It's been a problem with TV Arrow/Flash, they keep killing too many of the bad guys off.

It was lazy movie writing, plain and simple, while simultaneously missing an opportunity for him to have a plethora of cool non-lethal gadgets to deploy across the scenes.

I've always thought the past movie murders were out of character as well.

I haven't seen BvS yet, from reviews it seems to have plenty of bad writing, but a design choice of having an older grizzled Batman that simply doesn't care about villains lives anymore doesn't automatically mean he's "not Batman" anymore. By the same token, I've always felt the movies rely too much on Batman as a martial arts ninja with a lot of tech toys rather than portraying him as a genius who solves complicated plots to thwart brilliant enemies.

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Personally I think Superman Returns was very underrated. Definitely has problems, but gets many important things right, and is leagues ahead of garbage like Man of Steel and BvS.

Truthfully, I remember less of Superman Returns than almost any other superhero movie (award probably goes to that Hulk movie that time...). It was very forgettable and didn't really fit into anything, while feeling like the middle of a trilogy.

Though remembering that Hulk movie, now I have this image of a Batman movie where every time there's an explosion, you have an off screen voice "The building blew up, but don't worry, we all barely made it out!" just to reiterate that Batman doesn't kill. :-p

[fooliuscaesar13]

Saw this on Saturday. I can see where people would want them to jump around a bit less (there were a ton of flashbacks), but I liked the overall story. Very comic-book, imo, and that's a good thing to me. Definitely didn't have the "marvel feel-good" vibe going on. And Affleck is a badass Bruce Wayne / Batman.

[Mormolyce]

Truthfully, I remember less of Superman Returns than almost any other superhero movie (award probably goes to that Hulk movie that time...). It was very forgettable and didn't really fit into anything, while feeling like the middle of a trilogy.

Though remembering that Hulk movie, now I have this image of a Batman movie where every time there's an explosion, you have an off screen voice "The building blew up, but don't worry, we all barely made it out!" just to reiterate that Batman doesn't kill. :-p

I agree it's not that memorable.

So much so that I've yet to see a single reviewer bring up the fact that BvS has the same ending as Superman Returns. Which was one of its biggest problems. Like, they learned NOTHING.

[Jotaux]

Across those many different series, what's been the most prominent aspect of the character across 75 years? I'm willing to wager the vast majority of all iterations of Batman weigh far heavier towards no kill than openly murdering.

If Batman brazenly doesn't care about murdering common mercenaries, can you think of a single explanation for Joker being incarcerated?

It was lazy movie writing, plain and simple, while simultaneously missing an opportunity for him to have a plethora of cool non-lethal gadgets to deploy across the scenes.

I've always thought the past movie murders were out of character as well.

You see this a lot in media with heroes, they will cut through bad guys without a care for human life then when it comes to the boss they will be all turn yourself in BS.

[zenkai]

Enjoyed the movie but thought a lot of the major plot points was stupid

1. The reason Batman was upset at Superman - That plot point was stupid, wasn't superman fault some aliens showed up to destroy the earth even if they were just after Superman. Hell he turned himself in so humans were not going to be hurt but they had planned on terraforming the earth anyway.

2. Let Luthor - Weak character, didn't really give a strong reason why he wanted Superman dead. The actor portraying him acted too much like Joker and less like Lex.

3. The Human/Alien Hybrid - What was Lex thinking? He obviously had no control over it what did he think would happened after it killed Superman? Made 0 damn sense

4. The setup at the beginning of the movie, do people really believe Superman killed a bunch of people with guns?

I enjoyed the action and I love comic book movie but the stupid plot points made my head hurt.

[Solidito]

Amazing film, what they did with Lex was god awful though, seemed like he was trying too hard to be like the Joker/Riddler.

[Mitters]

Warner Bro's just posted this

[Deleted]

Warner Bro's just posted this <snip>

you posted the wrong one, heres the correct one:

[EyelessCrow]

So I didn't realize who he was in the movie and not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but apparently the guy who was shot in the face with Lois Lane in the desert was Jimmy Olsen

What irritated me about hearing about that is they "didn't have room for his character and wanted to have fun with it"...THAT was having fun with it?

[Faltemer]

With marketing, to make enough money to break even, I think the estimate was 800 million+ or some shit. I also think Warner Brothers came out and said a couple weeks before release that if it didn't make 1 billion dollars it would be considered a failure.

It's definitely on track to do that, and it wasnt WB who said it, it was an unamed producer and I thought that was where the 800 number came from, ill try to find the article. Either way I don't see it not reaching 1 billion though at least. Getting 430 million in one weekend makes that number much more reachable.

[Faroth]

It's definitely on track to do that, and it wasnt WB who said it, it was an unamed producer and I thought that was where the 800 number came from, ill try to find the article. Either way I don't see it not reaching 1 billion though at least. Getting 430 million in one weekend makes that number much more reachable.

Should hit $700M in 3 weeks assuming a 64% drop next week and another 60% the following week (that's ballpark what Man of Steel did). So making 800 million shouldn't be hard. If it does, though, that vaulted $1.5B may be questionable.

Can anyone explain this one plot point to me?

Why did Lex blow up the Senate hearing? Afterwards, the news was immediately reporting the Wayne Financial employee was the one with the bomb, so no framing Superman there. Was that supposed to be what Lex wanted? As it stands, it just seems like the Senator told him no, so he threw a temper tantrum and blew up the Senate hearing. Was it supposed to show he's psychotic? It's obvious he didn't care about the import license since he was already smuggling it into the country by that point. Just seems like he was being a petulant brat because he was told no.

I also think Batman would have just put together contingency plans to deal with Superman "just in case" but then Superman had to go and mess up his sweet car and so Bruce was like "Well, I can't just sue him for repairs so I'm TAKING HIM DOWN." I think that's the real, deeper, truth.

[Bill Nye the Spy]

It's definitely on track to do that, and it wasnt WB who said it, it was an unamed producer and I thought that was where the 800 number came from, ill try to find the article. Either way I don't see it not reaching 1 billion though at least. Getting 430 million in one weekend makes that number much more reachable.

I expect it to drop harder than MoS in the second week

[Gemini Soul]

I expect it to drop harder than MoS in the second week

I expect this as well, opening weekend numbers only show how many people wanted to see the movie, it doesn't show if the movie was actually good that is whats shown the following weekend after word of mouth gets around as well as if people go to see it again.

They should of split this movie into 2 parts, part 1 being about SvB and part 2 being about doomsday.

[Faltemer]

I think it'll do fine, despite people on this thread lamenting how terrible it is, audiences as a whole seem to disagree, espicially considering it's doing better then most of the MCU on IMDB.