Celestalon: "streaming interferes with the feedback process"

[Mizix]

Blizzard can't just cut off, deny or regulate streamers access; that's akin to censorship.

That would be true if streamers had a right to access the testing phase; they don't.

[Mizix]

I'm saying Celestalon arguing that all Streamers (and by extension, Youtubers) do is make the testing process harder because of "false/hyperbole pretexts" is just flatout wrong and him only focusing on the people who say negative stuff.

Except Celestalon did not say that... Your whole argument is based on a false premise. He said that streamers are a problem "when" they campaign for their own interests, etc. etc. That means some streamers are some time a problem, which is true.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Is there even a way to dictate to the people you give alpha access what to stream and if they are allowed to comment on it? And why was that not an issue with streaming in previous alphas?

You are only going to get that kind of control if you employ the people that are streaming. As soon as you decide to go the "cheap" route, and basically use streamers as free advertising, you lose any control over what the message is going to be, and how it is going to be passed on.

Normally alphas would be under some form of NDA, so that this wouldn't be an issue. But presumably Blizzard decided to lift this to help to generate hype for the new expansion. They appear to be regretting that move.

[KrazyK923]

Why are you making stuff up? He doesn't do that - he didn't even say that.

Except Celestalon did not say that... Your whole argument is based on a false premise. He said that streamers are a problem "when" they campaign for their own interests, etc. etc. That means some streamers are some time a problem, which is true.

...I never said "All streamers" as in "everyone who streams." I didn't think it was this hard to understand basic grammar.

"All" in this case meant "the only thing" they do. Which was blatantly clear if you two bothered to actually try to read what I said rather than jump on a perceived misstatement.

My one and only point was to say that he should have made a bigger distinction between "shitstreamers," as they are (people who do nothing but talk shit to get attention) and other people who actually stream and provide feedback.

There was zero indication from any of his tweets of a positive impact streamers could have, when it's clear certain people do. If he's going to go whine about dumbasses on Twitch being assholes for views, then at least he could make a distinction between people who do good or even are open minded and willing to see positives and negatives. Not a hard concept to understand.

That was it. But holy shit, people who are looking to score a gotcha on this forum are pretending I'm saying Celestalon said literally 100% of streamers in the world who play their alpha/betas are doing so for views, when I never did. Not surprising from one of you, but I'm not sure why the other one is taking that biased individual's interpretation of my statement as what I really meant. But I look forward to seeing how y'all take my new comments out of context and pretend I'm saying something else.

[Rehok]

Is there even a way to dictate to the people you give alpha access what to stream and if they are allowed to comment on it? And why was that not an issue with streaming in previous alphas?

Yeah, You can tell streamers not go to to certain parts and should they do so, they get access revoked as blizzard can see where you are within their game. Alot of streamers do respect what Blizzard tell them e.g. the no addon rule. A lot of streamers if not all don't use addon's until blizzard give the go ahead

[Aleksej89]

Blizzard intentionally invites streamers to alpha without thinking it through.
Nothing new really

Blizz gotta deal with their own mess now.

[Deleted]

Except Celestalon did not say that... Your whole argument is based on a false premise. He said that streamers are a problem "when" they campaign for their own interests, etc. etc. That means some streamers are some time a problem, which is true.

Yep - Az from HeelsvsBabyface is a perfect example of this. He's the exact kind of money grabbing a-hole that harms the feedback process.

[Lilija]

One thing I don't get. How streamer's opinion is really a problem in receiving proper feedback? The majority don't have a clue about proper feedback and streamers have nothing to od with it in particular. It's natural that majority of streamers won't have a clue. It's nothing new that devs need to go thru tons of crap before they can find proper feedback.

Also, I think that in general alfa/beta forums are quite good source of feedback. It's the place with the most well thought posts.

[Rehok]

One thing I don't get. How streamer's opinion is really a problem in receiving proper feedback? The majority don't have a clue about proper feedback and streamers have nothing to od with it in particular. It's natural that majority of streamers won't have a clue. It's nothing new that devs need to go thru tons of crap before they can find proper feedback.

Also, I think that in general alfa/beta forums are quite good source of feedback. It's the place with the most well thought posts.

The problem with some streamers is that they leave out other things to increase their viewership (this is was celastalon mean't) like the tweet said a Streamer was complaining about ability pruning but ended up with bars of buttons after talents and his viewership will increase as hes talking about one of the major points that's been brought up from various people

[Raiju]

One thing I don't get. How streamer's opinion is really a problem in receiving proper feedback? The majority don't have a clue about proper feedback and streamers have nothing to od with it in particular. It's natural that majority of streamers won't have a clue. It's nothing new that devs need to go thru tons of crap before they can find proper feedback.

Also, I think that in general alfa/beta forums are quite good source of feedback. It's the place with the most well thought posts.

You remember this? Full of incorrect statements and misleading information, yet it was parroted constantly because it was a hot topic put out by a streamer.

A streamer who is going on about information that is either incorrect or just not useful leads to a lot of invalid feedback.

[Kyanion]

Jesus this thread was interesting until a petulant child came in the thread and started throwing a temper tantrum.

On topic: I think feedback from some people on the alpha forums is helpful but most of it seems to be focused on the smallest percentages of the playerbase. What I mean is that there is tons of theorycrafting of abilities and breaking down how things work which is fine and good for the best of the best. However, most of our playerbase are NOT optimal players and abilities/pruning/changes need to be looked at with a careful eye. I mean I can speak for my class/spec of Balance Druid that many of the things being talked about just make the class seem not very fun. I'd love to go post in the alpha forums about why I feel X and Y might not be the best moves but that can't happen right now.

As far as streamers go I think it just a bad move any time a game company/game will take that route to generate hype/feedback. Many games in beta get forgotten quickly and the streamers move on to other things. The sad reality is this expansion is MONTHS away and all this 'streamer feedback' is mostly useless and will not cause people to buy the game that weren't already pledged to buy it.

[Lilija]

The problem with some streamers is that they leave out other things to increase their viewership (this is was celastalon mean't) like the tweet said a Streamer was complaining about ability pruning but ended up with bars of buttons after talents and his viewership will increase as hes talking about one of the major points that's been brought up from various people

You remember this? Full of incorrect statements and misleading information, yet it was parroted constantly because it was a hot topic put out by a streamer.

A streamer who is going on about information that is either incorrect or just not useful leads to a lot of invalid feedback.

That's just a problem with people being stupid and believing in everything they hear without any verification. Streamers or no streamers, this will never stop. There are so many misconceptions being constantly brought up on WoW forums regardless of them being mentioned by any streamer. It's more that people are trying to enforce their own biases by popular streamers. A thoughfull person will never spread misinformation only because someone on the internet said so.

This isn't the problem with streamers but human nature that is especially visible on the internet where many people have yet to learn how to filter information. I'm a bit amazed that Blizzard sees this as an issue. I would assume a huge game company should know by now that 99% of things said on the internet is crap and they have to filter the valuable things.

I don't think they should stop sending invites to streamers because some of them are really valuable giving decent feedback. It's just a mirror of the whole community. From all people who get alfa/beta keys, the majority won't be able to give proper feedback and that will never change. I'm also glad they've given keys to people who have cleared Mythic HFC because those people mostly are interested in how the game will be next expantion and those are mostly very active and experienced players. Yet even many of those are not able to give proper feedback. In fact in my own guild I have people who whine at ability pruning without really understanding the issue.

[Raiju]

I mean if you look at his tweet, he's not saying there shouldn't be streamers streaming this content - he's just saying it interferes. That doesn't mean there aren't positives.

One of the negatives unfortunately is you get a lot of invalid information due to people relying on streamers.

[Pull My Finger]

...I never said "All streamers" as in "everyone who streams." I didn't think it was this hard to understand basic grammar.

"All" in this case meant "the only thing" they do. Which was blatantly clear if you two bothered to actually try to read what I said rather than jump on a perceived misstatement.

My one and only point was to say that he should have made a bigger distinction between "shitstreamers," as they are (people who do nothing but talk shit to get attention) and other people who actually stream and provide feedback.

There was zero indication from any of his tweets of a positive impact streamers could have, when it's clear certain people do. If he's going to go whine about dumbasses on Twitch being assholes for views, then at least he could make a distinction between people who do good or even are open minded and willing to see positives and negatives. Not a hard concept to understand.

That was it. But holy shit, people who are looking to score a gotcha on this forum are pretending I'm saying Celestalon said literally 100% of streamers in the world who play their alpha/betas are doing so for views, when I never did. Not surprising from one of you, but I'm not sure why the other one is taking that biased individual's interpretation of my statement as what I really meant. But I look forward to seeing how y'all take my new comments out of context and pretend I'm saying something else.

LOL who are you trying to BS here. For the record, you wrote:

I'm saying Celestalon arguing that all Streamers (and by extension, Youtubers) do is make the testing process harder because of "false/hyperbole pretexts" is just flatout wrong

Which is complete nonsense, he doesn't do that at all. You're completely misrepresenting what he said and I'm not fully sure if that's deliberate or because you simply lack reading comprehension. And now you're backtracking, trying to retroactively create a different context and act as if it was all totally different - get outta here.

[KrazyK923]

No backtracking at all, but you can't see that because of your hate boner for me. Impressive but I'm not interested. That won't stop you from trying to pretend to make some gotcha. Going back to ignore with you, because you've made no actual contributions to the thread instead of attacking me.

Keep on keepin on broseph, you do you gurl.

[kamuimac]

Is there even a way to dictate to the people you give alpha access what to stream and if they are allowed to comment on it? And why was that not an issue with streaming in previous alphas?

because there was never streaming in previous alphas - there was some streming in late beta period beauce those who were in alpha would be booted from it if they released confidential info - same in early beta people were very careful what they were saying not to get banned from blizzard betas in future - its just legion that blizzard went full marketing retard mode because they knew perfeckly well there was going to be a year o abslutely 0 content in game and they tried desperately to keep people hyped and subbed

[KrazyK923]

because there was never streaming in previous alphas - there was some streming in beta inlate period beauce those whore were in alpha would bet booted from it if they released confidential info - same in early beta people were very careful what they were sying not to bet banned from blizzard betas in future - its just legion that blizzard went full marketing retard mode because they knew perfeckly well there was going to be a year o abslutely 0 content in game and they tried desperately to keep people hyped and subbed

Since at least Cataclysm Blizzard has been fine with people streaming and showing off early access stuff. In fact they even encouraged it.

I've streamed/posted to Youtube Alpha/Beta content since Mists of Pandaria. And the few people who got into the Cataclysm testing phase did as well. The difference is that starting with Mists of Pandaria, they've been calling what is basically a beta as an Alpha.

They've just been bringing more and more people into each expansion's testing phase it seems. And much like everything else on the internet, when more people get involved more assholes will be involved.

[Jibjub]

It makes sense ... just look at modern "news" outlets and the US elections. They all lie / slant to get viewers, not to inform.

[Celarent]

This is April Fool's, right?

PSST, NERVIG, YOU HAVE AN EASY OUT, DUDE

[Kryos]

Again until you people can link Wow armory profiles with streamsrs, shut the fuck up. This is trolling and even worse can lead to harassment. I'm sorry people in the Legion alpha aren't beating down your door to lick your ass and ask what you think of something you haven't even fucking played yet. Grow the god damn hell up.

You have some Anger issues my friend. Some here already wrote that they are streamers.