The UK Government to deport seven-year-old Lachlan, whose first language is Gaelic

[Rend Blackhand]

Are we going to lose our shit every time somebody's visa is rejected? Get a grip, shit happens.

Gaelic is a dying language, let it end. The Scottish Government spends millions on stupid shit like Gaelic road signs that less than 1% of the population can understand. there are far more Polish and Urdu speakers in Scotland, where are their road signs?

[Theodarzna]

It might have looked like it but I was not arguing for English to be the one language. Any other language depending on who becomes the next superpower could become the one language by force or even just entropy. I get your example about Israel but this seems to be the exceptions, languages disappear at a far larger rate than they appear.

The advent of the internet I think has the opposite effect that you claim. It opens up our social life to the rest of the world and usually that means using an other language than our mother tongue. Eventually just for the sake of convenience and laziness really people will coalesce into the same language.

Also, are people really still using the old celtic languages in common usage in parts of the UK ? For every day things like talking to the cashier at the store or is it more of a ceremonial thing ?

Currently yes, but that is the result of policy,

As for usage of Celtic Language, first they may be old but they are not fossils. And yes, in the UK, parts of Argentina and Canada as well as North Western France and Ireland Celtic languages can be used. For example Manx Gaelic went from 1 speaker left to 2% of the Isle of Man and growing, 1 to 1,800 is not a terrible showing. Cornish likewise enjoys the same story. And having traveled Wales, Cornwall, and the Isle of Man, I was able to use them relatively well in a lot of settings, though with Cornish it depended on if the signs of the shop had Cornish writing, same with Manx were as Welsh, well I know were to go and to use it.

So far it has not been the case, for minority languages the Internet has been mana from heaven as its avoided the key problem they all face, geography. If someone wanted to learn Cornish 20 years ago, they HAD to live in Cornwall or being extremely good at learning from Grammar Translation (Which nobody is) were as today you can learn from speakers and talk over skype. What is happening is that speakers are becoming more culturally dedicated to the languages they use. Welsh I am able to use in my native areas of Northern Wales effectively and to this day it is the language I think in, even if I use English a majority of the time for interactions (Being in America and living here its kind of a must).

What helps a language grow mainly is other forces ceasing trying to smother them out, such as the insistence, largely by English speakers, that everyone else's language is dead and must be forgotten..... since its a moral affront to thine pure English ears that people insist on knowing and using something else. In the UK its a bit of a difficult issue since the English have decided these languages are dead and they shouldn't have to do anything for them, even though they attempted to ethnically cleanse them, by a sense of justice, DARE I SAY SOCIAL JUSTICE they kind of owe a debt, but that is just my opinion.

[Shadowmelded]

Source

My commentary: It is rather pathetic if the UK, and Scotlands MP's cannot retain a speaker of one of Scotlands native languages. I mean the UK, specifically Scotland is going to be asked to absorb thousands whom will never learn Gaelic, maybe not even English, but a family whom raise their kid with it as his mother tongue gets the boot? It is IMHO an absolute travesty that this family gets threatened with deportation after showing a commitment to Scotland above and beyond that of most people who go there, or even whom are born there IMHO.

Sadly Scotland doesn't have the power to prevent this, which is why their MP had to write a letter (it's the most he can do). Post-study Visas were something we'd been hoping to get devolved control over since a lot of foreign students study here (particularly medicine and science) and actually want to stay for a little while after finishing their degrees but can't. The current situation is bizarre especially considering we (both Scotland and the UK) need to recruit more Doctors. Hopefully they'll be able to force a change (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...nal_graduates/) but with only 56 MP's it's unlikely.

[nextormento]

Post-study Visas were something we'd been hoping to get devolved control over

Do you guys have any immigration-related power devolved?.
Like, I would imagine, if any citizen of the UK can travel the land and settle anywhere, it'd be hard for that to be devolved in the constituencies.
(Mostly curious since our divisions work similarly, but emigration is entirely controlled from Madrid).

[Shadowmelded]

Do you guys have any immigration-related power devolved?.
Like, I would imagine, if any citizen of the UK can travel the land and settle anywhere, it'd be hard for that to be devolved in the constituencies.
(Mostly curious since our divisions work similarly, but emigration is entirely controlled from Madrid).

Nope, none. We have control over tourism, so I guess that's something? It would be pretty difficult to implement without border controls though, yeah.

[Deleted]

Source

My commentary: It is rather pathetic if the UK, and Scotlands MP's cannot retain a speaker of one of Scotlands native languages. I mean the UK, specifically Scotland is going to be asked to absorb thousands whom will never learn Gaelic, maybe not even English, but a family whom raise their kid with it as his mother tongue gets the boot? It is IMHO an absolute travesty that this family gets threatened with deportation after showing a commitment to Scotland above and beyond that of most people who go there, or even whom are born there IMHO.

This family are relatively local to me. I dont know them personally, but I have absolutely no sympathy.
The parents voluntarily left Australia, sold their house and effectively burned all their bridges without any guarantee of British citizenship.
What gives them the right to assume they can just move here and stay as long as they like? They're not refugees, they're not political asylum seekers, they're a pair of Aussies with a boner for Scotland.
Using their child as a bargaining chip is just desperate. He's seven years old for fucks sake, he'll get over it when they're sent packing ask to Australia.
Also, the claim that Gaelic is Lachlan's first language is complete and utter bullshit. Yes, there are a couple of Gaelic schools in the Highlands, but nobody under the the age of 60 can legitimately claim Gaelic to be their first language unless they've been brought up on one of the remote Western Isles with practically no contact with the mainland. Are the parents seriously trying to claim that their son's first language is different from theirs? I'd be really fucking surprised if those two knew how to even hold the most basic of conversations in Gaelic, it's essentially an archaic, dying language in Scotland.
There are people coming to the UK who need to be here due to conflict in their homeland. Those people deserve our help. These two don't.

[Theodarzna]

Sadly Scotland doesn't have the power to prevent this, which is why their MP had to write a letter (it's the most he can do). Post-study Visas were something we'd been hoping to get devolved control over since a lot of foreign students study here (particularly medicine and science) and actually want to stay for a little while after finishing their degrees but can't. The current situation is bizarre especially considering we (both Scotland and the UK) need to recruit more Doctors. Hopefully they'll be able to force a change (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...nal_graduates/) but with only 56 MP's it's unlikely.

I was under the impression it had been devolved, I suppose that is my mistake. Which is good, I'm much more accustomed to Westminster being the problem.

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This family are relatively local to me. I dont know them personally, but I have absolutely no sympathy.
The parents voluntarily left Australia, sold their house and effectively burned all their bridges without any guarantee of British citizenship.
What gives them the right to assume they can just move here and stay as long as they like? They're not refugees, they're not political asylum seekers, they're a pair of Aussies with a boner for Scotland.
Using their child as a bargaining chip is just desperate. He's seven years old for fucks sake, he'll get over it when they're sent packing ask to Australia.
Also, the claim that Gaelic is Lachlan's first language is complete and utter bullshit. Yes, there are a couple of Gaelic schools in the Highlands, but nobody under the the age of 60 can legitimately claim Gaelic to be their first language unless they've been brought up on one of the remote Western Isles with practically no contact with the mainland. Are the parents seriously trying to claim that their son's first language is different from theirs? I'd be really fucking surprised if those two knew how to even hold the most basic of conversations in Gaelic, it's essentially an archaic, dying language in Scotland.
There are people coming to the UK who need to be here due to conflict in their homeland. Those people deserve our help. These two don't.

A Scotland that doesn't work towards Gaelic is honestly not really Scotland IMHO.

Also if its ones mother tongue it does not matter if the parents are not native speakers. In theory I could decide to bring up either of my kids in say Manx Gaelic which I am reasonably fluent in, It would be THEIR native language but not mine.

[Deleted]

A Scotland that doesn't work towards Gaelic is honestly not really Scotland IMHO.

Also if its ones mother tongue it does not matter if the parents are not native speakers. In theory I could decide to bring up either of my kids in say Manx Gaelic which I am reasonably fluent in, It would be THEIR native language but not mine.

Perhaps the English should all start using Anglo-Saxon again too then?
I'm all for the upkeep of Gaelic as part of our national identity. But it's completely bonkers to claim it as your first language in modern Scotland. By all means call yourself bilingual, but Gaelic is a relic. In my job, I hear a fair few of the oldboys conversing in Gaelic, particularly those from Skye, Uist, etc and it's nice and everything. But it seems to be over romanticised by those outside of the Highlands. Unless you're competing in the Mod or applying for a job at BBC Alba, there's absolutely no reason to learn Gaelic unless you fancy doing it out of personal interest.

[Theodarzna]

Perhaps the English should all start using Anglo-Saxon again too then?
I'm all for the upkeep of Gaelic as part of our national identity. But it's completely bonkers to claim it as your first language in modern Scotland. By all means call yourself bilingual, but Gaelic is a relic. In my job, I hear a fair few of the oldboys conversing in Gaelic, particularly those from Skye, Uist, etc and it's nice and everything. But it seems to be over romanticised by those outside of the Highlands. Unless you're competing in the Mod or applying for a job at BBC Alba, there's absolutely no reason to learn Gaelic unless you fancy doing it out of personal interest.

Besides the inherent Racism of claiming one language is the natural successor to another, that is akin to telling say a Navajo that their language is dead and English is all that matters.

Nothing is a relic except in the eyes of the English whom see their language and culture as superior. I am shocked such a textbook liberal like yourself has such little care for a minority language.

[Tackhisis]

Why does it matter what language the child speaks? He is an Australian citizen and has to live in Australia.

[Deleted]

Yeah you shouldn't deport the good folks that work and fit in.

Also I thought Australia and the UK had some sort of special thing going on, when it comes to immigrating from one country to the other.

[Stacyrect]

Good get those illegal trespassers out of your country, America desperately needs to do the same, little kids, old people, the whole lot. Enter legally or GTFO

[Kalis]

Do not abuse your visa, do not get deported. Britain is not a free for all.

[Deleted]

Yeah you shouldn't deport the good folks that work and fit in.

Also I thought Australia and the UK had some sort of special thing going on, when it comes to immigrating from one country to the other.

we let them be barmen when they are 18-21 after that they can fuck off.

[Kalis]

we let them be barmen when they are 18-21 after that they can fuck off.

We have even set aside Earl's Court for them to live in and taken one of their paedos off their hands for decades. What more do we need to do for these people? Let them win the Ashes?

[Deleted]

We have even set aside Earl's Court for them to live in and taken one of their paedos off their hands for decades. What more do we need to do for these people? Let them win the Ashes?

They've taken over Fulham. Don't speak the language, won't intergrate (G'day, you mean Hello you cunt). Its a no go zone.

[Deleted]

Do not abuse your visa, do not get deported. Britain is not a free for all.

I am not sure how a 7-year old "abused his visa".

[Deleted]

I am not sure how a 7-year old "abused his visa".

that motherfucker never had one. His mum had a student visa, dad and kid were blaggers.

[Tyrianth]

I am not sure how a 7-year old "abused his visa".

Maybe his "parents" should stop being disgusting people trying to use their kid as a political scapegoat for breaking UK law.

[Deleted]

Besides the inherent Racism of claiming one language is the natural successor to another, that is akin to telling say a Navajo that their language is dead and English is all that matters.

Nothing is a relic except in the eyes of the English whom see their language and culture as superior. I am shocked such a textbook liberal like yourself has such little care for a minority language.

Generations of Scottish and Irish vote for the encouragement of Gaelic by their governments but they never bother to learn it or speak it.

I find your characterization of the English unfair. Mostly we have a positive view of the celts, whereas they are generally quite hostile towards us. I tried to learn and speak Gaelic when I was living in Ireland, but the apathy of the locals was de-motivating. It isn't the English who are killing the language.