Sylvanas responsible for Theramore's Fall?

[Koryn123]

And besides, orcs aren't the only ones who get manipulated into doing bad stuff by a bad guy.

Night Elves - Azshara and the Highborne were manipulated by the Burning Legion, and Fandral was manipulated by Xavius and the Old Gods. I suppose all Night Elves are naturally evil, then.

Dwarves - The Dark Irons summoned Ragnaros and served him to kill the Bronzebeards and Wildhammers. I suppose all Dwarves are naturally evil, then.

Draenei - Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, along with their two tribes of Eredar were manipulated by Sargeras. I suppose all Draenei are naturally evil, then.

Gnomes - That one gnome that infected Gnomeregan with leper gnomes was bad, so I suppose all Gnomes are naturally evil, then.

Worgen - Worgen actually have a hard time keeping their cool when provoked, and often lash out just like the Orcs. I suppose all worgen are naturally bloodthirsty and evil, then.

Humans - Arthas, Kel'thuzad, King Perenolde, Baron Rivendare, Renault Mograine, and many more were seduced by the promise of power or manipulated by Scourge, Deathwing, or the Legion, so I suppose all humans are naturally evil, then.


Orcs lead a harder lifestyle than humans, and have for generations. Therefore, they have a natural biological reaction when under pressure or in extreme situations where, if they're not careful, the bloodlust can take over. Drinking demon blood made this bloodlust much stronger, so they were in a constant state of it. When Grom killed Mannoroth, it lifted, and they could be free. Now if an orc loses their head, it's their natural reaction because they're not controlling themselves well enough.

In Draenor's case, the Iron Horde was not a result of bloodlust. It was a result of Garrosh telling them that if they didn't invade and conquer Azeroth, they'd all be enslaved by us. And they believed him because they thought he was a prophet who knew the future, because he knew certain details from history such as Gul'dan's attempts to seduce the orcs to work for the Legion.

- - - Updated - - -

So Jaina attempted to prove how the Horde wanted nothing but the power of the Thunder King by...claiming the power of the Thunder King.

Exactly. She's a hypocritical egomaniac, and because Blizzard wanted her to be the victim and Garrosh to be the bad guy, they gave everyone amnesia so nobody mentions that Theramore was not neutral, and never address any of her bs because that would immediately make it obvious to those who don't follow the lore that Jaina's a fraud, and everyone in the Alliance is ignoring her bs because she's Alliance and they don't see her actions against the Horde as a bad thing, and everyone in the Horde is ignoring her bs because the Horde was crippled after SoO and would be incredibly foolish to bring it up with the Alliance looking for any reason to keep fighting and kill them, not that the Alliance wouldn't suffer a lot of casualties too.

Alliance say "the whole world will suffer" when talking about the Horde gaining power, but what they really mean is "the Alliance will suffer."

Like we humans say something like "global warming will be the end of the world" but it won't. It'll just be the end of us humans if plants die and we can't manage to adapt and survive.

[Deleted]

Whether or not the orcs are bloodthirsty has nothing to do with the facts presented in my post. 6 counts of Theramore making itself a huge pain in the Horde's ass, and a more than legitimate military target by anyone's definition aren't nulled by the orcs being bloodthirsty. They weren't bloodthirsty. They were struggling to survive because Thrall forced them to settle in a desert wasteland, forbade them from settling in Ashenvale, and wouldn't declare war even if it meant the deaths of his own people. You can't grow crops in a desert. You can't find any herds in a desert. You can't find lumber in a desert. You can't find much water in a desert. Basically, all you can do in Durotar is scour the land for extremely dangerous animals like scorpions and raptors, deadly creatures that can kill you, or you can try fishing if you're lucky enough to live near the coast. Game scale =/= lore scale, so lorewise, you can't run from the bridge to the Barrens to the beach of Durotar in just a few minutes. You'd die of heat stroke and dehydration before you got there, or killed by the deadly animals along the way, then scavenged by buzzards.

The Night Elves refused to trade with the Orcs, Mulgore doesn't have enough trees to sustain the orcs without severely damaging Mulgore's ecosystem, and the Orcs didn't have the luxury that Theramore had by having two large kingdoms willing to give them everything they needed to survive. The only thing Theramore got on their own in Kalimdor was the stone used to build their city, cut from a nearby quarry, according to the comics.

The Night Elves had claimed almost every healthy piece of land that had trees, except Stonetalon Mountains, which is an impossible terrain for logging operations, Ungoro Crater, full of huge vicious dinosaurs, and Feralas, full of ogres and other things I forget. The Night Elves couldn't share, and would rather go to war than give up a few trees in their half a continent. And not only war against the small clan attacking them, but the entire Horde, including the Tauren and Trolls (since it was likely before the Forsaken joined).

The orcs did the same thing in AU Draenor as they did in the MU because Garrosh told them that we were coming to make them all slaves, just as the Burning Legion was going to. He said that the Draenei were in on it as well, and that they had to conquer Draenor and Azeroth if they wanted to be safe. And the orcs believed him, because he came with predictions of the future that came true, namely Gul'dan and the Legion's coming. The orcs thought Garrosh was a prophet, and thus, they believed him when he told them that the Horde and Alliance would make them slaves if they didn't conquer Azeroth first.

Theramore, as Alliance Member, helped the Alliance in the war and helped the Horde reclaiming Thunderbluff and safed the asses of two of their leaders when Varian attacked them.

Yeah, Theramore is soooo evil...

It's not the Fault of the Alliance when they don't have the guts to rise up against Thrall and settle to some nicer place like...maybe Lordaeron after the Argent Crusade healed the western plague lands? Or Stonetalon. Or the Horde Side of Ferelas. Or Un'guro, after sending the Hordes army against the dinosaurs.

Or maybe they could have tried to go up to the humans and try to straighten the things up once in a lifetime. You know, trying to apologize for everything they did to the peoples of stormwind. Showing remorse for the things they did against these people who never did something to their people, when the orcs invaded and destroyed their kingdom? Even the interment camps were something Lordaeron did, so the people who are to blame for this are the Forsaken, as successor state of Lordaeron. Or apologize for the things they did to the night elves. No, instead of forgetting their pride once in a lifetime, they just commit the same crimes over and over again, never learning their lesson. It's not like Jaina didn't even sacrificed her own father for peace with the Horde, while the Orcs never did something to make peace by themselves, all they did was demand that everyone accepts them and forgives everything they did while naming their City after Orgrimmar, a kick in the teeth for every human and dwarf who suffered or lost somebody in the second war and the fortress of their warchief after Grom Hellscream, the same thing for every Night Elf.

Sorry, but it's hard to believe that many Orcs have a good core when they do the same stuff over and over again. The only clan that was ever truly noble and honorable are the Frostwolfs.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Theramore, as Alliance Member, helped the Alliance in the war and helped the Horde reclaiming Thunderbluff and safed the asses of two of their leaders when Varian attacked them.

So that gets her a free pass later on when she decides to aid the Alliance? That isn't how war works. And this was Way before Varian had wolf powers, to say he would kill Thrall and Sylvanas is by no means a guarantee.

Yeah, Theramore is soooo evil...

Not evil, just naive and stupid as hell.

It's not the Fault of the Alliance when they don't have the guts to rise up against Thrall and settle to some nicer place like...maybe Lordaeron after the Argent Crusade healed the western plague lands? Or Stonetalon. Or the Horde Side of Ferelas. Or Un'guro, after sending the Hordes army against the dinosaurs.

So your saying acts of war are acts of war. And the Aliance invaded Barrens and got their asses kicked, same as they did with Lordaeron.

Or maybe they could have tried to go up to the humans and try to straighten the things up once in a lifetime. You know, trying to apologize for everything they did to the peoples of stormwind. Showing remorse for the things they did against these people who never did something to their people, when the orcs invaded and destroyed their kingdom? Even the interment camps were something Lordaeron did, so the people who are to blame for this are the Forsaken, as successor state of Lordaeron.

First off, the orcs are apologetic, but they arent going to fucking grovel, and the overwhelming majority of humans don't give a shit and still want to kill orcs. Hell the orcs built Orgrimmar in the Desert as a form of Repentance, something that bit thrall in the ass later because it made all the young orcs pissed off.

Or apologize for the things they did to the night elves. No, instead of forgetting their pride once in a lifetime, they just commit the same crimes over and over again, never learning their lesson. It's not like Jaina didn't even sacrificed her own father for peace with the Horde, while the Orcs never did something to make peace by themselves, all they did was demand that everyone accepts them and forgives everything they did while naming their City after Orgrimmar, a kick in the teeth for every human and dwarf who suffered or lost somebody in the second war and the fortress of their warchief after Grom Hellscream, the same thing for every Night Elf.

Battlegrounds are not canon with the timeline, for a long time they had a treaty with the nelves it was only after wrathgate did the Nightelves cut it off, blaming the orcs despite the fact they had nothing to do with it. And no way in fuck are the orcs ever going to care more about the humans then they do themselves, that makes no sense.

Sorry, but it's hard to believe that many Orcs have a good core when they do the same stuff over and over again. The only clan that was ever truly noble and honorable are the Frostwolfs.

Sure when you look at it from the Alliance side, and honor is a point of view.

[Dartz1979]

i get r4eally sad when people hate on jaina she's my bae i wouldnt know what to do if she ever were to die there sno other woman in azeroth as sexy as her

[Friendlyimmolation]

i get r4eally sad when people hate on jaina she's my bae i wouldnt know what to do if she ever were to die there sno other woman in azeroth as sexy as her

and that right there killed me for tonight.

[Deleted]

First off, the orcs are apologetic, but they arent going to fucking grovel, and the overwhelming majority of humans don't give a shit and still want to kill orcs. Hell the orcs built Orgrimmar in the Desert as a form of Repentance, something that bit thrall in the ass later because it made all the young orcs pissed off.

Did they ever tried to apologize to the human directly? You see, even if they live in the Desert, if they call their City Orgrimmar it doesn't look like they actually regretting the second war. Especially if they even refuse to give Garona to the Alliance. Why they never build a first and second war memorial, to remember the Humans und Draenei who died in battle against the demon corrupted Monsters they knew they once were? Berlin has a Holocaust Memorial. It's not like the majority of humans isn't without sympathy towards the Orcs.

Finally I break out and head back to my hometown and what do I get? People spitting on me, protesting me, calling me a baby orc killer and all kinds of vile crap!

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=26568/this-aint-my-war


The Orcs on the other hand kept innocents civilians, mothers and childrens for months as Slaves in Orgrimmar.

[Martymark]

Sylvanas was also responsible for Sargeras' fall.

[Deleted]

They were struggling to survive because Thrall forced them to settle in a desert wasteland, forbade them from settling in Ashenvale, and wouldn't declare war even if it meant the deaths of his own people. You can't grow crops in a desert. You can't find any herds in a desert. You can't find lumber in a desert. You can't find much water in a desert. Basically, all you can do in Durotar is scour the land for extremely dangerous animals like scorpions and raptors, deadly creatures that can kill you, or you can try fishing if you're lucky enough to live near the coast. Game scale =/= lore scale, so lorewise, you can't run from the bridge to the Barrens to the beach of Durotar in just a few minutes. You'd die of heat stroke and dehydration before you got there, or killed by the deadly animals along the way, then scavenged by buzzards.

Plenty of societies survive in deserts just fine.

They used the few wooden resources they got to build houses, while they could’ve build their homes out of stones, sand and earth, which they have plenty of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra using a RL example they could’ve also built Orgrimmar into the canyon. They wouldn’t need to rebuild huge parts of it after fires (which seem to happen regularily, though I can’t remember which books mention that). And they wouldn’t need to use wood to not freeze during night since the stones save the heat.

While Durotar is a desert, it does have the Southfury River originating in the highlands around Hyjal (and thus not having salty water) directly passing the gates of Orgrimmar. It could’ve been used for agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancien...agriculture” like in Ancient Egypt

Yes Durotar has dangerous animals, but it’s surely easier to kill those to keep your resources safe than to wage a war against an ancient “tall and savage” armed society you were recently allied with.

Last but not least, while the night elves didn’t want to trade wood from Ashenvale with them, they could’ve traded with several others including at least the forsaken and several goblin cartels.

So yes, the orcs were in a bad situation on Kalimdor but you cannot play the victim card here because there were plenty of nonmilitary solutions to their problems. They chose to fight.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Did they ever tried to apologize to the human directly? You see, even if they live in the Desert, if they call their City Orgrimmar it doesn't look like they actually regretting the second war. Especially if they even refuse to give Garona to the Alliance. Why they never build a first and second war memorial, to remember the Humans und Draenei who died in battle against the demon corrupted Monsters they knew they once were? Berlin has a Holocaust Memorial. It's not like the majority of humans isn't without sympathy towards the Orcs.

They Tried, and Jaina's dad had none of it, they tried again with Varian and he just grew a Lordaeron Boner and wanted to take over. And Most of the orcs now are the younger generation that had nothing to do with their parents war, asking them to apologize would be fucking stupid beyond comprehension.

The Orcs on the other hand kept innocents civilians, mothers and childrens for months as Slaves in Orgrimmar.

The Kor'kron did, who most of the Orcs hated, hence the fact most of the orcs went against Garrosh.

- - - Updated - - -

Plenty of societies survive in deserts just fine.

They used the few wooden resources they got to build houses, while they could’ve build their homes out of stones, sand and earth, which they have plenty of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra using a RL example they could’ve also built Orgrimmar into the canyon. They wouldn’t need to rebuild huge parts of it after fires (which seem to happen regularily, though I can’t remember which books mention that). And they wouldn’t need to use wood to not freeze during night since the stones save the heat.

While Durotar is a desert, it does have the Southfury River originating in the highlands around Hyjal (and thus not having salty water) directly passing the gates of Orgrimmar. It could’ve been used for agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancien...agriculture” like in Ancient Egypt

Yes Durotar has dangerous animals, but it’s surely easier to kill those to keep your resources safe than to wage a war against an ancient “tall and savage” armed society you were recently allied with.

Last but not least, while the night elves didn’t want to trade wood from Ashenvale with them, they could’ve traded with several others including at least the forsaken and several goblin cartels.

So yes, the orcs were in a bad situation on Kalimdor but you cannot play the victim card here because there were plenty of nonmilitary solutions to their problems. They chose to fight.

The night elves started the entire thing by shooting first and asking question later, it would also have helped if the tauren warned the orcs about the Night elves. But once the Night elves shot the first arrow, the Horde was going to focus on that area.

[Lupinemancer]

Garrosh had mood swings because he was Garrosh. And Theramore wasn't neutral Jaina had a highway built so they could help the Night elves and troops invaded the barrens.

She didn't. Varian was the one who ordred her to do anything, he was the one using it to invade, not Jaina. He was the king of the HUmans and the leader of the Alliance so even though she might not have liked it, she had to follow his orders, no different from how the Horde members who might disagree, still followed Garrosh's orders.
But that is how Hordes are, anything they do, is ok, but anything the Alliance does is not ok. Hypocrites.

If Jaina didn't want Theramore destroyed, she shouldn't have made it a military target especially with Garrosh in charge.

With Garrosh in charge, any Alliance settlement, hostile or not, would have been targeted. This is, of course, evident with Theramore, a city that while being an Alliance city, was neutral and the leader fought for peace between both factions. It was built by the survivors of Lordaeron and other kingdoms who just wanted a place to live, no different from the evil Orcs. They had a military to defend themselves mostly due to the dangers of the marsh tehy chose to live, but also because we all know you can't trust Hordes. Jaina even let her own father be killed as a proof that she was not solely Alliance and wanted to work with both faction. She helped Baine reclaim Thunder Bluff.
But then again, Hordes will use any excuse to justify their actions and pretend the Alliance is the evil ones, which is, of course not true.

[Deleted]

They Tried, and Jaina's dad had none of it, they tried again with Varian and he just grew a Lordaeron Boner and wanted to take over. And Most of the orcs now are the younger generation that had nothing to do with their parents war, asking them to apologize would be fucking stupid beyond comprehension.

You sure can post me the scene were the Orcs actually apology for the crimes they commited and asked how they can put things right with them? Also, many young Orcs hyped Garrosh at his path at first, we never saw some form of guilt or alienation between young Orcs and the sins of their fathers.

The Kor'kron did, who most of the Orcs hated, hence the fact most of the orcs went against Garrosh.

Between the destruction of Theramore and the Siege of Orgrimmar were a couple of month. Every Horde Member played before Garrosh has screwed with them.

The night elves started the entire thing by shooting first and asking question later, it would also have helped if the tauren warned the orcs about the Night elves. But once the Night elves shot the first arrow, the Horde was going to focus on that area.

And that's why they Ashenvale again, just because they have nothing the could offer the Night Elfs for their wood?

[Friendlyimmolation]

You sure can post me the scene were the Orcs actually apology for the crimes they commited and asked how they can put things right with them? Also, many young Orcs hyped Garrosh at his path at first, we never saw some form of guilt or alienation between young Orcs and the sins of their fathers.

Go and play WC III , Thrall's entire story is about how the orcs just want a new home, and how Daelen won't let that happen. And The young orcs fucking hate the humans because most of them were born in camps. And they hate Thrall for keeping them in a desert. Garrosh notices this when he first arrives in Org.

Between the destruction of Theramore and the Siege of Orgrimmar were a couple of month. Every Horde Member played before Garrosh has screwed with them.

Yea no, they weren't there until SoO, if they were captured earlier the majority of the Horde had no idea.

And that's why they Ashenvale again, just because they have nothing the could offer the Night Elfs for their wood?

They traded metal to the night elves before, but it all stopped when the Night elves blamed the orcs for Putress

- - - Updated - - -

She didn't. Varian was the one who ordred her to do anything, he was the one using it to invade, not Jaina. He was the king of the HUmans and the leader of the Alliance so even though she might not have liked it, she had to follow his orders, no different from how the Horde members who might disagree, still followed Garrosh's orders.
But that is how Hordes are, anything they do, is ok, but anything the Alliance does is not ok. Hypocrites.

If you go ahead and bother to read lore you would know Jaina doesnt answer to varian.

With Garrosh in charge, any Alliance settlement, hostile or not, would have been targeted. This is, of course, evident with Theramore, a city that while being an Alliance city, was neutral

It was not fucking Neutral, even jaina recognizes its a military city, it forfieted any rights to be called neutral when it invaded the barrens back in classic WoW.

they had a military to defend themselves mostly due to the dangers of the marsh tehy chose to live, but also because we all know you can't trust Hordes. Jaina even let her own father be killed as a proof that she was not solely Alliance and wanted to work with both faction. She helped Baine reclaim Thunder Bluff.

Jaina being an ignorant twit and playing both sides for her convince doesn't mean shit. Theramore was being built before the Horde Showed up, and already was invading the barrens back by the time of Cycle of Hatred.

But then again, Hordes will use any excuse to justify their actions and pretend the Alliance is the evil ones, which is, of course not true.

Go ahead and spew more, doesn't change the fact that Theramore Got what was coming, who would have guessed screaming you're neutral while actively aiding one side would bite you in the ass?

[Deleted]

Go and play WC III , Thrall's entire story is about how the orcs just want a new home, and how Daelen won't let that happen. And The young orcs fucking hate the humans because most of them were born in camps. And they hate Thrall for keeping them in a desert. Garrosh notices this when he first arrives in Org.

Yeah, but these Humans are the Forsakens now. Their allies. You don't see the big big hypocrisy?

Yea no, they weren't there until SoO, if they were captured earlier the majority of the Horde had no idea.

Because the whole Horde wouldn't notice if intercepts ships full of women and children?

They traded metal to the night elves before, but it all stopped when the Night elves blamed the orcs for Putress

The Orcs, as leaders of the Horde, had pretty much the responsibility for the Forsaken. And if the Night elves would really had needed the metal the Orcs offered them, they would never had stopped the trade. That's how trade works, if you have something another really needs, you can make the price. Also, the Horde has never prohibited the production of the plague, even with the Kor'kron in Undercity the Forsaken could still mix it.

[Traveler Voltin]

You wont get through the wall that is mega wall bias M-ra

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yeah, but these Humans are the Forsakens now. Their allies. You don't see the big big hypocrisy?

There is no Hypocrisy because the Forsaken are Allies and haven't brought up past stuff at all, hell half the Forsaken can't remember their past lives well enough, or they just don't care.

Because the whole Horde wouldn't notice if intercepts ships full of women and children?

Considering lorewise we would have been in Pandaria either way? And by the time we get back are locked out of org (lorewise?)

The Orcs, as leaders of the Horde, had pretty much the responsibility for the Forsaken. And if the Night elves would really had needed the metal the Orcs offered them, they would never had stopped the trade. That's how trade works, if you have something another really needs, you can make the price. Also, the Horde has never prohibited the production of the plague, even with the Kor'kron in Undercity the Forsaken could still mix it.

Pleases learn Forsaken lore before you try to make assumptions. The Forsaken are responsible for themselves, and the Korkron did prevent them from making True Blight. The Night elves just threw a shitfit.

[steelballfc]

Forgive me if I'm not going to read everything, but since the obvious assumption is that Sylvanas was somewhat involved with Theramore's fall, I have to stop you right there. When Garrosh called the leaders to discuss the matter, Sylvanas was second only to Baine when it came to oppose the idea to attack Theramore, she didn't want to "stir" Jaina to more direct action nor wanted the Alliance to threaten her kingdom again as a form of reprisal for the attack, kingdom she quite struggled to hold in Cataclysm. Not only that, she was one of the two Horde leaders who didn't show her face during the campaign (the other is Lor'themar) and only sent a sort of representative who got eventually murdered (along the Blood Elf one) because of his shown dislike for Garrosh's tactics used in Theramore.

Theramore got destroyed in that way because it was a crucial act for Garrosh's goals, the first necessary step for his plan of continental dominion.

the scene of Blood elf's and undead generals being killed was shown in War crimes novel
you remind me of good book

- - - Updated - - -

Garrosh didn't bomb civilians. His actions are horrible, but when Theramore was bombed it was a military target.

also I may add that Jaina knew about the attack from baine and sent most of the Civilians away to SW

[Deleted]

The night elves started the entire thing by shooting first and asking question later, it would also have helped if the tauren warned the orcs about the Night elves. But once the Night elves shot the first arrow, the Horde was going to focus on that area.

Well I was not playing the victim card on night elves either. Yes, they shot first, however after WC3 at a point when they were trading and allied the Horde/the Warsongs could have just left Ashenvale alone and be creative.

Playing the victim card on the Orcs is just wrong in this scenario: “poor little green angry misunderstood beings, they had no choice but to invade a sacred forest of a former ally again and chop sacred wood again and provoke an attack again, they would’ve died else! Those evil night elven druids even refused to grow new trees for them [despite the fact the horde has several potent druids, too in addition to the ability of terrashaping on a massive scale as seen in Azshara]” is just wrong, because like I said there were several acceptable nonmilitary ways out.

[steelballfc]

Whether or not the orcs are bloodthirsty has nothing to do with the facts presented in my post. 6 counts of Theramore making itself a huge pain in the Horde's ass, and a more than legitimate military target by anyone's definition aren't nulled by the orcs being bloodthirsty. They weren't bloodthirsty. They were struggling to survive because Thrall forced them to settle in a desert wasteland, forbade them from settling in Ashenvale, and wouldn't declare war even if it meant the deaths of his own people. You can't grow crops in a desert. You can't find any herds in a desert. You can't find lumber in a desert. You can't find much water in a desert. Basically, all you can do in Durotar is scour the land for extremely dangerous animals like scorpions and raptors, deadly creatures that can kill you, or you can try fishing if you're lucky enough to live near the coast. Game scale =/= lore scale, so lorewise, you can't run from the bridge to the Barrens to the beach of Durotar in just a few minutes. You'd die of heat stroke and dehydration before you got there, or killed by the deadly animals along the way, then scavenged by buzzards.

The Night Elves refused to trade with the Orcs, Mulgore doesn't have enough trees to sustain the orcs without severely damaging Mulgore's ecosystem, and the Orcs didn't have the luxury that Theramore had by having two large kingdoms willing to give them everything they needed to survive. The only thing Theramore got on their own in Kalimdor was the stone used to build their city, cut from a nearby quarry, according to the comics.

The Night Elves had claimed almost every healthy piece of land that had trees, except Stonetalon Mountains, which is an impossible terrain for logging operations, Ungoro Crater, full of huge vicious dinosaurs, and Feralas, full of ogres and other things I forget. The Night Elves couldn't share, and would rather go to war than give up a few trees in their half a continent. And not only war against the small clan attacking them, but the entire Horde, including the Tauren and Trolls (since it was likely before the Forsaken joined).

The orcs did the same thing in AU Draenor as they did in the MU because Garrosh told them that we were coming to make them all slaves, just as the Burning Legion was going to. He said that the Draenei were in on it as well, and that they had to conquer Draenor and Azeroth if they wanted to be safe. And the orcs believed him, because he came with predictions of the future that came true, namely Gul'dan and the Legion's coming. The orcs thought Garrosh was a prophet, and thus, they believed him when he told them that the Horde and Alliance would make them slaves if they didn't conquer Azeroth first.

I will just add that the Horde biggest resource was mines, and Garrosh hinted that Horde Must get Lumber, hurbs.....Etc. by force from the alliance after Theramore Peace Negotiation failed, specially after Varian accused the Horde for trying to kill him.
the trading part was also mentioned in Cycle of hatred, were the Alliance living in Theramore hated the Orc's because there trade was failing Gazlow, for Gazlow was siding with the Horde, and gazlow has the biggest trading post in Kalimdore

- - - Updated - - -

Battlegrounds are not canon with the timeline, for a long time they had a treaty with the nelves it was only after wrathgate did the Nightelves cut it off, blaming the orcs despite the fact they had nothing to do with it. And no way in fuck are the orcs ever going to care more about the humans then they do themselves, that makes no sense.
.

I will add to point of Battleground that every BG is event from the past, whatever the BG, and most of them ended after MOP.
the War is Over Solider, everybody lost, you just don't know it.

[Zulkhan]

While Durotar is a desert, it does have the Southfury River originating in the highlands around Hyjal (and thus not having salty water) directly passing the gates of Orgrimmar. It could’ve been used for agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancien...agriculture” like in Ancient Egypt

Except Durotar is no ordinary desert, is a rocky one. Being prevalently rocky undermines every successful attempt of developing agricolture in a larger scale. That's why the orcs in Durotar had just a bunch of farms (sustained by exploiting those rare chunks of fertile soil) and no crops at all, they had to trade all that stuff.

Last but not least, while the night elves didn’t want to trade wood from Ashenvale with them, they could’ve traded with several others including at least the forsaken and several goblin cartels.

The Forsaken? The ones who lives in a dead forest on the other side of the planet? And goblin cartels aren't definitely known for wood trading.

The only valuable option was trading lumber with Theramore itself, something Thrall attempted to do. But all the peace talks and diplomatic shit went constantly south for a reason or another.

it would also have helped if the tauren warned the orcs about the Night elves

Unlike Night Elves, Tauren weren't immortal and those who fought alongside them in the War of the Ancients were dead by ages. After that the two civilizations pretty much forgot about each other. One of the reasons I find funny when people pretend Tauren had to give a shit about Night Elf lives when Night Elves never gave a crap about their centaur problem.

[steelballfc]

Except Durotar is no ordinary desert, is a rocky one. Being prevalently rocky undermines every successful attempt of developing agricolture in a larger scale. That's why the orcs in Durotar had just a bunch of farms (sustained by exploiting those rare chunks of fertile soil) and no crops at all, they had to trade all that stuff.



The Forsaken? The ones who lives in a dead forest on the other side of the planet? And goblin cartels aren't definitely known for wood trading.

The only valuable option was trading lumber with Theramore itself, something Thrall attempted to do. But all the peace talks and diplomatic shit went constantly south for a reason or another.



Unlike Night Elves, Tauren weren't immortal and those who fought alongside them in the War of the Ancients were dead by ages. After that the two civilizations pretty much forgot about each other. One of the reasons I find funny when people pretend Tauren had to give a shit about Night Elf lives when Night Elves never gave a crap about their centaur problem.

Give this man a chocolate cookie