Wisconsin issued 300,000 concealed carry permits in 5 years + Homicide Rate

[jayeffkay]

What a surprise, when there is potential, immediate, harsh consequence for crime people mind their own business.

[Guy4123]

Fly over rural states also have some of the lowest population density, and population density has a HUGE effect on gun violence, ESPECIALLY when guns are easy to acquire.

You could compare similarly sized city areas and come to the same conclusions if you compare the right cities. Like say, Seattle and Detroit. Roughly the same population sizes and city area with Seattle having 3.0 murders per 100k and Detroit having 43.5 murders per 100k.

Then one side will point out demographics, then the other point out historical disenfranchisement and it will go round and round in circles like it already has many a time.

[Azadina]

What a surprise, when there is potential, immediate, harsh consequence for crime people mind their own business.

Harsher punishments do not deter crime.

[breadisfunny]

Harsher punishments do not deter crime.

the role of punishment is to punish.

[Breccia]

Harsher punishments do not deter crime.

Well to be fair, if the punishment to "I am going to rob a guy" is "he was a permit holder and shoots me" I'm fairly sure that counts as both punishment, and deterrence. Which, in Wisconsin, is apparently a one in nine chance.

[Azadina]

the role of punishment is to punish.

He just seemed to imply, that harsh consequence for crime makes people not commit crime. Which isn't how it works.

Well to be fair, if the punishment to "I am going to rob a guy" is "he was a permit holder and shoots me" I'm fairly sure that counts as both punishment, and deterrence. Which, in Wisconsin, is apparently a one in nine chance.

And with more guns in circulation, the robber might aswell shoot the person they are going to rob, to not risk getting shot himself.

[Deleted]

He just seemed to imply, that harsh consequence for crime makes people not commit crime. Which isn't how it works.



And with more guns in circulation, the robber might aswell shoot the person they are going to rob, to not risk getting shot himself.

it does work in some cases

but not with crimes of passion

[Vurdah]

Apparently the homicide rate is lower than Japan's?



This would go towards solidifying that a huge chunk of our homicide rate is coming from specific "trouble areas" in our country.

I would hope that the numbers are impressive regardless of which side of the fence you sit, but you know how that goes.

The main issue has always been with big city areas with high rates of poverty/drug trade.

[satimy]

You live in Wisconsin? I do. Walker is terrible. The economy is worse, he gutted education, right to work laws, gutted unions, opposed marriage equality etc...etc.

I was born in Wisconsin but no longer live there. My entire family basically lives in Milwaukee, half of them hate Walker, half of them like him.

The economy is worse

Sometimes things get worse when you pull the curtain of lies away

gutted education

Why because teachers unions dont have a disproportionate amount of power?

right to work laws

this isn't a bad thing

gutted unions

unions are a disgrace and have too much power

opposed marriage equality

rather meaningless as marriage is a federal law now

[akris15]

So I went looking for some less biased information. As it turns out, there is a website that lists homicide rate by state 1996-2014 (highlighting death penalty legality, but that's irrelevant to this discussion).

Wisconsin:

1996 - 4.2
z
2005 - 3.5
2006 - 3.0
2007 - 3.3
2008 - 2.6
2009 - 2.6
2010 - 2.7
2011 - 2.4
2012 - 3.0
2013 - 2.8
2014 - 2.9

Now, what year was concealed carry introduced? 2011. What I see is a steady downtrend from 4.2 to 2.4 in 2011, and then a jump up to ~2.9 for three consecutive years thereafter.

One might conclude from this data that there is a correlation between firearm availability and homicide rate. Which is quite contrary to the claims made in the OP.

Wow that /micdrop

[kail]

Scott Walker is probably the best governor in America right now.

Good news for Wisconsin.

I'm sure...

Violent crime in Wisconsin higher under Scott Walker actions

And the article is not lying on 2012's spike in violent crimes.

https://wilenet.org/html/justice-pro...rime-in-wi.pdf

Stats show bad grades across the board in 2012's shift. Hell, the use of handguns for homicides and robberies also increased percentile wise. Even at the low end of 57% use of firearms for muder, that is the reason I question why they are legal to the public.

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Why do you need free speech? Why do you need habeus corpus? Why do you need the 4th amendment?

Need is irrelevant to a right existing

OK? It's the right that is being questioned. Anti-gunners are not debating on whether guns are legal or not, that can be looked up under federal and state laws. What's being questioned is if the practicality of that right outweighs the dangers and misuse.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

OK? It's the right that is being questioned. Anti-gunners are not debating on whether guns are legal or not, that can be looked up under federal and state laws. What's being questioned is if the practicality of that right outweighs the dangers and misuse.

If we are going to ban things based on how dangerous and how misused they are... I don't think guns will be on the top of that list.

[Wyrt]

There are 5.7 million people in Wisconsin. I doubt 300,000 made any meaningful difference in any direction.

[ezgeze]

and tanked wisconsins economy along with it? but of course you ignored that part of it. in fact it still hasn't fucking recovered after 8 years and is among the slowest in growth rates among all 50 states. not only that he denied health care to poor people but i bet that makes him a fucking hero for saving your precious tax dollars so more people can die of easily treatable diseases. that's all you care about is you.

Wisconsin by and large lost fewer jobs than most states in the great recession so when viewing recovery rates, Wisconsin had slower growth rates because growth is measured by the change from the previous month. Still, Wisconsin's unemployment rate is and has been lower than the US average so where exactly has Walker "destroyed" the states economy? Tip; he hasn't. That's just a radical liberal talking point that holds no merit.

As for your "he denied health care to poor people" claim......

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo...239456711.html

About 83,000 of the state's poorest residents will gain state BadgerCare Plus health coverage in April and a slightly smaller low-income group will lose that coverage and be shifted to a federal program, under a plan by Gov. Scott Walker that has been approved by federal officials.
.....
.....
.....
The federal government can't be trusted for the long term to pay for an expanded Medicaid program, especially given the other problems with Obamacare, they said.

"The governor's reforms will strengthen health care in Wisconsin and provide Wisconsin residents with opportunities in the commercial health care market and will reduce Wisconsin's uninsured rate (by) half," state Health Services Secretary Kitty Rhoades said.

https://wallethub.com/edu/rates-of-u...bamacare/4800/
Currently Wisconsin ranks the #8 best state as having the fewest number of uninsured people by % of total population at 7.35% when the national rate is 11.4%. So again, you are using radical liberal talking points which have no merit.

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Wow that /micdrop

Correlation does not imply causation.

Wisconsin has a lot of issues when taken together could explain the increase you mentioned but by and large the increases you mentioned are driven by the Milwaukee population. Milwaukee has many problems like.....

The current heroin epidemic in the state.
The idiotic Milwaukee police chief no chase policy which has allowed the criminal elements to thrive in Milwaukee.
etc

[Cthulhu 2020]

You could compare similarly sized city areas and come to the same conclusions if you compare the right cities. Like say, Seattle and Detroit. Roughly the same population sizes and city area with Seattle having 3.0 murders per 100k and Detroit having 43.5 murders per 100k.

Then one side will point out demographics, then the other point out historical disenfranchisement and it will go round and round in circles like it already has many a time.

Population density isn't the only factor, socioeconomics are another big one. We all know there are a plethora of factors. One of the biggest is ease of access, whether legal or illegal.

[Aori]

Pssh in my small town in Illinois we just had 2 shootings, one person injured, 2 days later another person killed on Easter. The shootings happened 2 days apart and are apparently by the same guy who is on the run. The person killed was shot by a stray round at his own home across the street from a party going on. 2 people arrested for unlawful discharge of a firearm, 2 on the run. Someone completely unrelated was killed instead.

Person killed was one of our local musicians, he left behind his wife and 5 y/o kid.

[jayeffkay]

Harsher punishments do not deter crime.

Tell that to some of my Canadian friends who are chronic pot smokers, yet wouldn't even consider messing with it in a place like Thailand.

[TZucchini]

The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Permit requires applicants to:

1). Pass a background check
2). Attend a firearm training course

Great job with your firearm regulation, Wisconsin. The results are truly telling.

[Tinykong]

The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Permit requires applicants to:

1). Pass a background check
2). Attend a firearm training course

Great job with your firearm regulation, Wisconsin. The results are truly telling.

It's almost like responsible people are capable of safely owning and using potentially deadly items. I'm stunned.

[Aggrophobic]

Apparently the homicide rate is lower than Japan's?



This would go towards solidifying that a huge chunk of our homicide rate is coming from specific "trouble areas" in our country.

I would hope that the numbers are impressive regardless of which side of the fence you sit, but you know how that goes.

Sounds great.
Why do they need to carry guns though, if there is no need for self defence in Wisconsin?

I'm not against people owning guns though, just curious.