Is Druid the weakest class in lore?

[Wewlad]

Just like how thrall was an amateur for wearing beads which allowed garrosh to get a few good hits in?

Nice false equivalency there, but yeah, Thrall shouldn't wear stuff that could be grasped with ease, yet it isn't so stupid as entering anime mode, a deliberately idiotic move in combat.

[Deleted]

Warrior is obviously the weakest class in lore. They can't do shit to any kind of spell-caster, unless, of course, plot-armor...

[Ratyrel]

In Warcraft nothing beats the killing power of a mage, especially one with a power source (rhonin and well of eternity, Jaina with iris, Illidan with skull etc). Potentially someone like Malfurion has even greater power, but it is usually presented as being much slower and less on-demand.

[Deleted]

Malfurion got imprisoned for a long time because he was such a weakling. Blizzard retconned him back in Cataclysm for some reason. Same thing with Gul'dan. He died but they just had to use him again for some reason.

Anduin is the strongest Priest alive and he is just a weak kid.

Jaina is a crazy woman who thinks too highly of herself. Even Khadgar is more powerful and Khadgar couldn't even kill Gul'dan.

Thrall is a wise old orc but not very powerful.

Paladins and Death Knights are almost like Warriors but they are too weak to fight like a real Warrior and have to rely on spells to even get close to the true Warriors like Grommash.

[Deleted]

Rogues are the weakest class probably, that or hunters.

[Deleted]

Paladins and Death Knights are almost like Warriors but they are too weak to fight like a real Warrior and have to rely on spells to even get close to the true Warriors like Grommash.

When Turalyon, a 20 Year old boy by that time whose physical build was never described as something special, and Orgrim Doomhammer, a orc who was described as big and imposing, clashed their weapons, Turalyon with a broken sword, Doomhammer with his legendary Warhammer, Orgrims Weapon flew right away.

We can assume that a Paladin with te power of the light is even physically far stronger than a normal warrior.

[Ratyrel]

Malfurion got imprisoned for a long time because he was such a weakling. Blizzard retconned him back in Cataclysm for some reason. Same thing with Gul'dan. He died but they just had to use him again for some reason.

Anduin is the strongest Priest alive and he is just a weak kid.

Jaina is a crazy woman who thinks too highly of herself. Even Khadgar is more powerful and Khadgar couldn't even kill Gul'dan.

Thrall is a wise old orc but not very powerful.

Paladins and Death Knights are almost like Warriors but they are too weak to fight like a real Warrior and have to rely on spells to even get close to the true Warriors like Grommash.

Malfurion slept. He wasn't imprisoned, and he returned in Warcraft III, to fall prey to the Nightmare before WoW, to return in Cataclysm. He was removed from the storyline because he is too powerful, not because he was weak.

Velen is the strongest priest alive.

Thrall killed Garrosh with one spell.

This whole warrior ethic is just the assertion of the primitive over the sophisticated.

[Ielenia]

No. Taran Zhu was the amateur by leaping way too high because he tried to go anime mode, and Garrosh exploited his foolishness.

Saying 'go anime mode' as if it's some kind of insult only shows how poor your argumentation skill is. Taran Zhu getting his foot stuck wasn't due to his skill, or Garrosh's skill. It was pure blind luck on Garrosh's part, and bad luck on Taran's part, to have landed exactly on the single piece of shoddy wood on the bridge.

[Deleted]

Saying 'go anime mode' as if it's some kind of insult only shows how poor your argumentation skill is. Taran Zhu getting his foot stuck wasn't due to his skill, or Garrosh's skill. It was pure blind luck on Garrosh's part, and bad luck on Taran's part, to have landed exactly on the single piece of shoddy wood on the bridge.

Yeah, but this attack was kinda pointless. Even a normal Grunt could avoid this.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, but this attack was kinda pointless. Even a normal Grunt could avoid this.

Maybe. However, if it connected, it would likely end the fight right then and there, as I imagine the entire weight of a big pandaren concentrated on a single foot falling on the face would, at the very least, knock Garrosh out. You can say that that Taran Zhu traded swiftness for power in that attack in particular to try to end the fight.

[satimy]

Malfurion is stronger the basically everyone

[Zulkhan]

No. Taran Zhu was the amateur by leaping way too high because he tried to go anime mode, and Garrosh exploited his foolishness.

Garrosh got out from Taran's trajectory at the very last second, despite the high jump. And if Taran jumped that way is obviously to give strength to his kick and exploit gravity at his advantage. He missed Garrosh for an inch.

Have you thrown a chain at someone and choked their neck? Or even wrap the chain in a way that you can even acquire a grasp with it.

Against someone who can't move, can't defend himself and has his back turned on me? Yeah it doesn't require any hardcore training, moreover for an orc who possesses a considerable muscular mass.

And that wasn't a Mak'gora. It was just a scrap. Mak'gora has to be declared and the terms agreed upon.

It doesn't matter. The point is, the Mak'gora denies the very things Garrosh did in such duel because it focuses on the sole ability of the warriors. Garrosh exploited more than his warrior skills to win. Which doesn't mean Garrosh is a piece of shit for doing that. He definitely did the smart thing. He had an agenda in mind and couldn't waste time with technicalities and honorable bullshit. Point is, to win he had to step beyond his warrior "limits" and use a trick to gain the upper hand.

That duel merely proved the point that warriors by themselves are kinda hopeless against most classes.

Only reason why Taran Zhu's foot got stuck because he underestimated Garrosh's speed and tried some idiotic airkick.

It wasn't idiotic at all, if Garrosh didn't manage to run the hell out of Taran's trajectory in time the monk would have obliterated his face away. Again, Garrosh escaped that kick on the very last second.

And on topic of Garrosh using chain, improvising is what makes a good warrior.

Bullshit. What makes a good warrior is the way he uses his strength, skill and experience with the tools he has in hand. Grabbing an iron chain and throwing it to choke an opponent who can't defend himself from a safe distance is nothing but a cheap trick. Hell, he got even disarmed after 10 seconds of fighting. That's pretty shameful for a warrior.

This wasnt a Mak'gora.

Of course it wasn't a Mak'gora, it doesn't change the point. The Mak'gora is the way it is exactly because is meant to put the sole strength and experience of the warrior to test, nothing else. That's the kind of duel that demonstrates the value of the warrior. There's a reason if orcs, the most war-like people of the game, came up with that shit.

This was a fight on a wooden bridge and Taran Zhu failed to realise all the aspects of that.

It's more that his fighting style simply put him in disadvantage in such environment. Garrosh had to not worry about anything on that regard. In literally every other environment Taran Zhu could have reacted and reached Garrosh before he managed to reach either his weapon or the iron chain.

Just look at MoP cinematic trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvYXoyxLv64) they both improvise the hell out of weapons, and this alone is the reason why neither loses.

Which weapons improvised Taran Zhu?

Taran Zhu tried to match his aggression against Garrosh's. Bad move for any person let alone someone(monk) whose whole combat system is based on emotional control and patience.
Garrosh might have been a fool politically, but he was great at reading a battlefield or duel. He saw that Taran was making an all or nothing attack he evaded and countered. If Taran Zhu had been fighting like a monk he might have won

Actually, Garrosh has quite a bad record when it comes to duels. And he got disarmed after 10 seconds of fighting. If there was someone who approached the fight with rage and fury after Taran Zhu mocked his dad that one was Garrosh.

Seriously, is quite evident that Garrosh won because the cinematic was meant that way, but is likewise evident that such win has been granted for reasons that had little to do with Garrosh's incredible expertise as a warrior. In terms of that, he looked quite awfully bad actually.

Maybe. However, if it connected, it would likely end the fight right then and there, as I imagine the entire weight of a big pandaren concentrated on a single foot falling on the face would, at the very least, knock Garrosh out. You can say that that Taran Zhu traded swiftness for power in that attack in particular to try to end the fight.

Kinda this. Taran Zhu charged a powerful attack to one-shot Garrosh. Garrosh missed that for an inch and Taran got stuck to the bridge, which would have required a solid knowledge about the brittleness of a bridge Garrosh's own orcs built. And even assuming Taran Zhu got overconfident with such attack, Garrosh wouldn't have been able to exploit such brief advantage without grabbing a "gap-closer" to quickly choke and comfortably pull Taran upon the edge of Gorehowl.

[pateuvasiliu]

Malfurion was stated to be the strongest ''mortal'' in Azeroth by Blizzard.

[Deleted]

It wasn't idiotic at all, if Garrosh didn't manage to run the hell out of Taran's trajectory in time the monk would have obliterated his face away. Again, Garrosh escaped that kick on the very last second.

If and if. It took Taran Zhu 3 seconds to hit the ground from the moment he jumped (approximately, checked the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzQOyS5TqQ). Garrosh was fully aware this whole time of Zhu's intentions. How can anyone be even slightly suprised by the fact that a proper warrior like Garrosh manages to evade such clumsy attack. Even after Garrosh proves to be able to take advantage of the small time window of Zhu watching Gorehowl after he disarmed Garrosh (1:45 in video).

Bullshit. What makes a good warrior is the way he uses his strength, skill and experience with the tools he has in hand. Grabbing an iron chain and throwing it to choke an opponent who can't defend himself from a safe distance is nothing but a cheap trick. Hell, he got even disarmed after 10 seconds of fighting. That's pretty shameful for a warrior.

Of course it wasn't a Mak'gora, it doesn't change the point. The Mak'gora is the way it is exactly because is meant to put the sole strength and experience of the warrior to test, nothing else. That's the kind of duel that demonstrates the value of the warrior. There's a reason if orcs, the most war-like people of the game, came up with that shit.

Taran knew that this was an all-in duel. The goddam Vale was at risks, and to protect it he needs to do everything he can. Taran Zhu had the same chance to pick up the chain. He could've used it to his advantage. But he didn't. He chose to rise 20 meters or so in the air and try to kick Garrosh's face in. And you even say that good warrior uses tools in his hands. That's exactly what the chain is. While Taran practised to use Chi and all those monk stuff in his advantage, Garrosh practised using every weapon he can find. Because thats what makes a good warrior. being able to take anything around you and use it as a deadly weapon. Hell, this is even shown in the game: warriors can use most weapon types because thats what they excel at lorewise.

Which weapons improvised Taran Zhu?

Meant that both the orc and human use every piece of improvised weapon to beat the other combatant.

[Ielenia]

If and if. It took Taran Zhu 3 seconds to hit the ground from the moment he jumped (approximately, checked the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzQOyS5TqQ). Garrosh was fully aware this whole time of Zhu's intentions. How can anyone be even slightly suprised by the fact that a proper warrior like Garrosh manages to evade such clumsy attack. Even after Garrosh proves to be able to take advantage of the small time window of Zhu watching Gorehowl after he disarmed Garrosh (1:45 in video).

Neither of that changes the fact that the only reason Garrosh won that fight was because Taran Zhu had the worst luck and land exactly on the one weak wooden board and got his foot stuck, pinning him to the spot.

Meant that both the orc and human use every piece of improvised weapon to beat the other combatant.

Neither "loses" because Chen Stormstout (I assume that's him) interrupts the battle. Also technically both the orc and the human lost as they were downed by the Pandaren simply slamming his wooden staff on the ground.

[Deleted]

Neither of that changes the fact that the only reason Garrosh won that fight was because Taran Zhu had the worst luck and land exactly on the one weak wooden board and got his foot stuck, pinning him to the spot.

If you jump 20 meters into air to kick a wooden bridge, this outcome is more than likely to come. And he didn't hit the "one weak wooden board". He hit between 2 boards.

Neither "loses" because Chen Stormstout (I assume that's him) interrupts the battle. Also technically both the orc and the human lost as they were downed by the Pandaren simply slamming his wooden staff on the ground.

Yea I know neither loses, but if one them weren't able to improvise a weapon he would've most likely lost. Ergo (atleast in this case) a good warrior knows how to improvise a weapon.

Edit: I hope the OP dont mind us hijacking the thread to discuss/speculate cinematic .

[Ielenia]

If you jump 20 meters into air to kick a wooden bridge, this outcome is more than likely to come. And he didn't hit the "one weak wooden board". He hit between 2 boards.

The boards break, either way. And check out the video: that bridge has no framework at all, yet when it's dropped from a vertical position, down to a horizontal position, not only it doesn't break on impact, but it barely wobbles. With that in mind, we're talking about sturdy, strong wood here, and since Taran Zhu broke two on his landing, we can only assume he had the worst luck to land right on the weak boards.

But that doesn't change the fact of the matter: the warrior class, lore-wise, is the weakest of all classes in the game.

[Deleted]

The boards break, either way. And check out the video: that bridge has no framework at all, yet when it's dropped from a vertical position, down to a horizontal position, it barely wobbles. With that in mind, we're talking about sturdy, strong wood here, and since Taran Zhu broke two on his landing, we can only assume he had the worst luck to land right on the weak boards.

But that doesn't change the fact of the matter: the warrior class, lore-wise, is the weakest of all classes in the game.

His foot is basically a wedge at that point, of course the wood is gonna break, thats what wedges do. It wasn't bad luck, it was bad decision making. And say he wouldn't have gotten his wedge stuck between planks, he still would've exposed his back to Garrosh open wide, a deadly mistake.

And on the topic of weakest class, as I said few pages back, classes can't be compared like that. IMO the only reason why warriors are considered to be weakest is that they are the cannon fodders of both armies. Easy and fast to train. But the top tier class examples (aka. playable characters) aren't on the same level as front line infantry. PC warrior has ripped apart Deathwings backarmor. PC monk stopped the rise of Thunder King with his bare hands, etc etc. PC is on his own power level, no matter the class, and saying that PC mage can beat PC warr is absurb: warrior dodged firebreath from Onyxia, what stops him from dodging mage's fireball? Or the other way around; mage blocked an attack from the Frostmourne wielded by Lich King with iceblock, so why would any traditional weapon ever be a threath to the mage?

E: And oh yea. Monks are specialised in fighting with kicking and punching. Taran Zhu is one of strongest monks. Wouldn't it be odd if his kick wasn't able to break wooden planks?

[Ielenia]

His foot is basically a wedge at that point, of course the wood is gonna break, thats what wedges do. It wasn't bad luck, it was bad decision making. And say he wouldn't have gotten his wedge stuck between planks, he still would've exposed his back to Garrosh open wide, a deadly mistake.

Had his foot not broken the wood planks and gotten stuck, I imagine he'd react just like he has so far: he'd swiftly turn around to face Garrosh, likely jumping away to put some ground between him and Garrosh as he turns around.

And on the topic of weakest class, as I said few pages back, classes can't be compared like that. IMO the only reason why warriors are considered to be weakest is that they are the cannon fodders of both armies.

Actually, the reason they're considered the 'weakest' is because Warriors are, basically, 'budget Paladins'. By definition, plate-wearing Warriors are slow, due to the heavy weight of their weapons (usually a two-handed weapon) and their armor. Paladins greatly off-set their lack of mobility with healing and protection spells. Monks are fast, hard to hit, and, just like rogues, are trained to hit with precision on weak spots on a person's armor and/or body.

Warriors have nothing but their armor and weapon. Basically all the other melee classes have that and much more, not to mention the ranged classes.

[Echocho]

I think you meant to say monk.