Dutch Voters Reject European Union’s Trade Deal With Ukraine

[Furyfire]

LONDON — Voters in a Dutch referendum on Wednesday overwhelmingly rejected a trade and cooperation agreement between the European Union and Ukraine, casting doubt over the future of the accord and delivering a new blow to supporters of European integration.

After all votes were counted and reported to the election service of the national news agency, ANP, 61.1 percent rejected the pact and 38.1 percent voted for it, Dutch broadcasters NOS and RTL reported.

In addition, the turnout was 32.2 percent — above the 30 percent required for the result to be declared valid, the broadcasters said.

Before the final figures of the nonbinding referendum were announced, Prime Minister Mark Rutte, who had supported the accord, said that if the 30 percent threshold had been reached, Dutch ratification of the accord would probably not be possible.

In any event, the result will be seen as a sign of the fragility of public support for the European Union as it battles economic problems and an acute migration crisis caused in part by the civil war in Syria.

The Dutch referendum took place less than 80 days before Britons are to decide whether to leave the European Union, a decision that could have profound consequences for the 28-nation bloc.

Voters were asked to approve an association agreement intended to forge closer economic integration between Ukraine and the European Union, and which has already been approved by the Dutch Parliament and supported by the government.

Even through the vote was nonbinding, political analysts had argued that it would be hard for the government to ignore a no vote if the turnout exceeded the 30 percent threshold.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/07/wo...h-ukraine.html

[Grimbold21]

Voters were asked to approve an association agreement intended to forge closer economic integration between Ukraine and the European Union, and which has already been approved by the Dutch Parliament and supported by the government

Okay, what am i missing here? It's been approved yes?

[DrMcNinja]

Okay, what am i missing here? It's been approved yes?

That agreement has been "delayed" so to speak. The parliament now has to decide its course of action.

[Grimbold21]

That agreement has been "delayed" so to speak. The parliament now has to decide its course of action.

But it's been approved. The only consequence i can think of is the government taking a political blow if it chooses to ignore the referendum result.

[Kronik85]

Okay, what am i missing here? It's been approved yes?

It's a nonbinding referendum, aka the Government gets to do what it wants to regardless of the vote. I must confess though it seems strange to bother at all if such is the case but for whatever reason the Dutch Government had the referendum, lost the vote and will feed the Dutch Right more ammo to fire back at the EU when they ignore the results rather than just not having the referendum at all.

Don't know anything about Dutch Politics though.....seems like a real odd ball if it was an election promise like the Brexit here in the UK was. "We will have a referendum on closer economic integration between the Ukraine and the EU!" doesn't sound like much of a vote winner to me or an issue that "the people" care about as a whole.

[Furyfire]

Okay, what am i missing here? It's been approved yes?

That is correct, it has been approved but not ratified. I believe parlement can now decide to not sign it at all or it will have to be again approved and then signed.

[Deleted]

Good for the Dutch people.

[Shadowmelded]

It's a nonbinding referendum, aka the Government gets to do what it wants to regardless of the vote. I must confess though it seems strange to bother at all if such is the case but for whatever reason the Dutch Government had the referendum, lost the vote and will feed the Dutch Right more ammo to fire back at the EU when they ignore the results rather than just not having the referendum at all.

Don't know anything about Dutch Politics though.....seems like a real odd ball if it was an election promise like the Brexit here in the UK was. "We will have a referendum on closer economic integration between the Ukraine and the EU!" doesn't sound like much of a vote winner to me or an issue that "the people" care about as a whole.

They didn't decide to hold one really. There's a new rule that, if you can get 300,000 signatures a referendum is held on laws and treaties that have been passed but not yet put into practice (with some exceptions like the Constitution, Royal Family and Budget).

Apparently it's not entirely certain whether they actually achieved the 30% participation rate since the margin of error was 3%.

[Damajin]

It's a nonbinding referendum, aka the Government gets to do what it wants to regardless of the vote. I must confess though it seems strange to bother at all if such is the case but for whatever reason the Dutch Government had the referendum, lost the vote and will feed the Dutch Right more ammo to fire back at the EU when they ignore the results rather than just not having the referendum at all.

Don't know anything about Dutch Politics though.....seems like a real odd ball if it was an election promise like the Brexit here in the UK was. "We will have a referendum on closer economic integration between the Ukraine and the EU!" doesn't sound like much of a vote winner to me or an issue that "the people" care about as a whole.

It's a test the waters vote, which countries sometimes engage in before they totally fuck over their people. See how hot the water is before they jump in the pool with the populace.

[Furyfire]

They didn't decide to hold one really. There's a new rule that, if you can get 300,000 signatures a referendum is held on laws and treaties that have been passed but not yet put into practice (with some exceptions like the Constitution, Royal Family and Budget).

Apparently it's not entirely certain whether they actually achieved the 30% participation rate since the margin of error was 3%.

That news is from some time ago. 32.2 % participation rate. It is valid. Prime Minister said that they will talk about this for days or weeks and they wouldn't simply ratify this treaty with such a high percentage of voters being against it.

[Kronik85]

They didn't decide to hold one really. There's a new rule that, if you can get 300,000 signatures a referendum is held on laws and treaties that have been passed but not yet put into practice (with some exceptions like the Constitution, Royal Family and Budget).

Yeah this makes sense. Did a lil research and it looks like 300k signatures will get you a referendum under Dutch law like you say. Which leads me on to.....

It's a test the waters vote, which countries sometimes engage in before they totally fuck over their people. See how hot the water is before they jump in the pool with the populace.

If that was the case (which it isn't) then there are far less politically risky ways to measure public support for a policy or issue. If you want to know what your people are thinking then employ a Polling Organisation and get the results sent to you privately.

[Damajin]

Yeah this makes sense. Did a lil research and it looks like 300k signatures will get you a referendum under Dutch law like you say. Which leads me on to.....



If that was the case (which it isn't) then there are far less politically risky ways to measure public support for a policy or issue. If you want to know what your people are thinking then employ a Polling Organisation and get the results sent to you privately.

Well the referendum was forced so it's out of their hands on that account but I'd ask anyone who lives there what type of media campaign preceded this vote as far as state friendly support and coverage went. There's more than one way to test the water in politics.

[Shadowmelded]

That news is from some time ago. 32.2 % participation rate. It is valid. Prime Minister said that they will talk about this for days or weeks and they wouldn't simply ratify this treaty with such a high percentage of voters being against it.

And the margin of error is still 3%. We won't know definitively until Tuesday when the Electoral Council announces the results.

[caervek]

This is interesting on two counts, firstly if the Netherlands government take the likely course of action and switches stance on the Ukraine deal would that mean that the Netherlands is exempt from having to trade with Ukraine under the deal terms or would it scupper the whole deal if one member state was against it?

Secondly, this bodes poorly for Ukraine's EU membership ambitions, it's application could be vetoed by member states some of which would hold referendums and if this result is mimicked...

[Deleted]

And according to the Panama papers and mr Petro Poroshenko's latest tweets and comments.

The Dutch didn't vote so bad.

Seriously, if the Dutch government still goes ahead with a treaty in any kind, then all hope for this world is lost.

[Deleted]

This is good for obvious reasons. Ukraine in its current state is not a gain to anyone under any aspect. Having said that... I mean... did national votes against european policies actually ever prevented those european policies from being applied?

[FuxieDK]

Any EU referendum that results in a NO, is a victory...

I salute the Dutch people..

[Aggrophobic]

Good for the Dutch people.

How so? Letting Russia eat them up helps no one, not even the US.
Well, maybe Russia but you know...

[Deleted]

How so? Letting Russia eat them up helps no one, not even the US.
Well, maybe Russia but you know...

What do you mean how so? There's nothing to gain from Ukraine in its current form. The amount of investment to be directed in is way too much and the place is too unstable to make long term plans.

[Aggrophobic]

What do you mean how so? There's nothing to gain from Ukraine in its current form. The amount of investment to be directed in is way too much and the place is too unstable to make long term plans.

You can never have too many "friends".