Europe has a hope afterall

[Kalis]

The figure of 70 billion pounds you quoted as being the economic cost of leaving the EU is higher than any figure given as a worst possible case scenario, which would involve all of Europe becoming extremely angry with Britain and acting out of spite, and refusing to act on a number of treaties and trade agreements which date back from decades ago, and which consider what would happen were Britain to become isolated from the rest of the world - including the USA on the assumption that the USA would become nasty and spiteful were Britain to leave the EU. Only if those conditions were all to be met (highly unlikely) could such a figure even come close.

A more likely figure is put at 1-2billion pounds a year. My own personal opinion is that democracy is worth that. Easily. But do what you want. Not my country.

Where are you getting £1-2 billion per year from? The CBI estimated that £70 billion and I trust them, they are interested in what is best for business in the UK.

You are going to have to provide a trustworthy independent source giving a breakdown for that £1-2 billion, as it seems like utter bollocks from UKIP or some anti-EU website.

[phillys]

Where are you getting £1-2 billion per year from? The CBI estimated that £70 billion and I trust them, they are interested in what is best for business in the UK.

You are going to have to provide a trustworthy independent source giving a breakdown for that £1-2 billion, as it seems like utter bollocks from UKIP or some anti-EU website.

From the CBI, believe it or not. The figure you posted was their estimate of the worst possible case scenario, which even they believe is unlikely.

[Kalis]

From the CBI, believe it or not. The figure you posted was their estimate of the worst possible case scenario, which even they believe is unlikely.

You are going to have to link that, as looking at the CBI website, even under their best case scenario, they are giving £55 bn loss to GDP by 2020.

Optimistic
In 2020:
• GDP 3.1% lower than counterfactual (lower by £55bn)
• Household income £2,100 lower
• Employment 550,000 lower than counterfactual and unemployment rate at 7%

For comparison:

Pessimistic
In 2020:
• GDP 5.5% lower than counterfactual (lower by £100bn)
• Household income £3,700 lower
• Employment 900,000 lower than counterfactual and unemployment rate at 8%


Source The Two Futures report.

[Deleted]

wow you guys sound big pices of shit and where all this refuges should go ?

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

[stabetha]

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

so France?

[Deleted]

Any individual / organisation who purports to know what would happen economically in the event of UK leaving the EU is either lying or delusional. There are so many unknowns you might as well throw darts at a board with your eyes closed to get an answer.

In any case for some of us this decision has nothing to do with the economics anyway. Personally it is far more (a) about preserving the principles of our legal system which works on common law, unlike the EU with is civil, and (b) self determination combined with the benefits of being small and adaptable.

Oh and before we get into any "little Englander" malarkey, I have worked plus have friends all over Europe. I like the Europeans in all their glorious diversity. To the point whereby the last thing I want for them as well is to be slowly eroded into a one size fits all grey mass decided by small minded politicians driven by fear.

[Xarkan]

I just found out about this guy. If everything he said was true, I sure hope that GB votes for Brexit.

I hear that if the Brexit happens he wont be in the EU parliament and that should make the average attendance in [the eu] parliament go up. We need MEPs who show up to do the work if we want decisions that should approximate reflecting the population so that would be a win.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Now there's an orator.

All we got over here is this guy...

[Nathreim]

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

But they don't all want to be free. A large portion want they want to have the same barbaric laws they have in their own countries.

If you want to embrace truly freedom and equality please come to America if not stay the fuck out.

[Mihalik]

For the life of me, I can't think why anyone would vote to keep their nation in the EU.

Means you need a new social circle made up people who have a comprehension of macro-economics, geopolitics and aren't prone to jizz in their pants whenever they hear quasi nationalist populist one liners that are completely removed from reality and if were ever to come true would cause seismic damage to our collective standards of living.

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greece would just devalue drahma if they wasnt in EU , cant do that with euro

Contrary to popular opinion inflation is not a catch all solution. Without fundamental structural changes and strict austerity to satisfy creditors inflation would solve nothing at all and would send the Drachma into hyperinflation. This effect was observed in half a dozen Eastern European countries during the mid to late 90's.

Greece is simply nonviable either with or without the Drachma without the cooperation of its creditors. Creditors who lent Euros on certain premises that Greece didn't stick to.

If someone tells you that there is a simple solution for something that guy is usually full of shit.

[Incredibale]

Sovereignty is an inconceivable notion to the pro-EU voters. I guess to them it must be racist.

[Mihalik]

Any individual / organisation who purports to know what would happen economically in the event of UK leaving the EU is either lying or delusional. There are so many unknowns you might as well throw darts at a board with your eyes closed to get an answer.

In any case for some of us this decision has nothing to do with the economics anyway. Personally it is far more (a) about preserving the principles of our legal system which works on common law, unlike the EU with is civil, and (b) self determination combined with the benefits of being small and adaptable.

Oh and before we get into any "little Englander" malarkey, I have worked plus have friends all over Europe. I like the Europeans in all their glorious diversity. To the point whereby the last thing I want for them as well is to be slowly eroded into a one size fits all grey mass decided by small minded politicians driven by fear.

It's EXTREMELY easy to know what would happen economically. The idea that comprehending that is some mystical science we can't grasp is absurd. The primary purpose of the EU is free movement of goods (this doesn't mean only physical products or people, but most importantly equity). Britain is very dependent economically on these frameworks. This would mean that if Britain was to leave the EU they would have to associate themselves to the European Economic Area.

The EEC is regulated by the EU, but countries like Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland are associated with it. In essence this simply means that while EU law applies to them, they actually have no say in the writing of that EU law. So what Britain would essentially achieve with its exit is the suspension of its own negotiation power, as within the EU it wields the mighty Veto Hammer.

Small and adaptable is a myth. There is no such thing as small and adaptable country, small and adaptable in this case refers to the illusion that Britain could become some sort of Tax Haven. Sorry to burst your bubble but we already have a plethora of those within the EU and some are even Crown colonies of the UK, yet their existence benefits the average Briton in no way.

Specialization within a larger market is what best suits the British economy and it is the policy Britain has been pursuing for over 30 years whether ran by Labor or Tories.

Again. Don't fall for hollow and meaningless populist jingles.

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Sovereignty is an inconceivable notion to the pro-EU voters. I guess to them it must be racist.

It is when used utterly out of context, more like a sports cheer than anything policy related.

[Daws]

To me the European Union just seems a little pointless as somehow Europe has managed to create an organisation where the chances of any real change are remote and the more who join the less chance of change there is. Yes ideally it has collective power but since everyone has there own agenda that collective power is often undermined.

[Mihalik]

To me the European Union just seems a little pointless as somehow Europe has managed to create an organisation where the chances of any real change are remote and the more who join the less chance of change there is. Yes ideally it has collective power but since everyone has there own agenda that collective power is often undermined.

It seems pointless because you are thinking in foggy terms of "ideals". The EU exists for economic reasons. Peace and cooperation is a byproduct of economic interdependence.

The impact it has on the lives of its citizens is universally beneficial, but also subtle to the point where most people living within take it for granted because they literally haven't experienced a world without it, or remember the past before it with rose tinted glasses and aren't actually capable of understanding how their lives improved.

It's also related to how national politics deal with the EU. If things go well, they tap themselves on the shoulder and take credit (disregarding the role the EU had in it all) and when things go bad they deflect blame to the nebulous Brussels bureaucrats.

[Deleted]

From what i've seen from UKIP which is mostly linked by pro-ukip on atleast the specific matter.
Is that their extremely good with their argument and do it on professional level.
This into comparison to other Dutch more populist parties who stay vague or can't call out others bullshit.

Their is a lot I don't agree with ukip as well and I do find their conslusion a bit too populistic where i assume their misleading.
But overal it it might be good to have a more anti EU period in power so we will reavaluate EU. Right now everytime the people voice their opinion they just walk over it and go about their bussiness with that they know better. But if EU really knows better than the 2008 crisis should have never happened.

[Cosmoz]

Nigel Farage and Douglas Murray are without a doubt Britain's finest, either would be an excellent prime minister.

[Deleted]

Nigel Farage and Douglas Murray are without a doubt Britain's finest, either would be an excellent prime minister.

I have to ask. What's up with those on the anti-feminist side and political right glorifying persons on their side.

Eventhough I agree with many of the things especially anti-feminism. I often see youtube glorifying titles of milo yanopolis (im butchering his name) where they state that he butchered the opposition. But it seemed seemed fairly equal where both sides didn't fully succeed and i get dissapointed.

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Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

sounds like a prayer to bring them to their god ..........how bloody........:P

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we actually do have numbers on the will of the people. The people of the Netherlands voted to not allow Turkey accession into the EU about 2 weeks ago primarily because it would make a torrent of new migrants coming into western Europe.

Uhh what. The referendom was about ukrain not turkey. Ah you mentioned that alter it a post, you might want to edit your earlier post

[Evolixe]

Well, I know that having your country run by unelected officials who make laws for your own nation that your country has to follow, such as it being illegal to criticize the EU may be attractive to some, but I much prefer democracy. Even if it just gives the illusion of choice. I dislike the way they make laws bound in clauses, and when nations refuse to vote on laws, they push them through the Courts. I dislike their plan (already enacted) for regions where they dictate to nations what they can and can't do in terms of industry and how to run the country economically, and I dislike how much nations are forced to pay the officials.

How is that different from the US federal gov vs State gov?

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Nigel is a boss.

[Tommi]

Nigel is a boss.

Farage: Putting the Great back into Britain.

ALL HAIL FARAGE!!!