Do you think BGs should have stats averaged?

[Kagthul]

This is how pvp at max level is in legion. The only difference in stats comes from being a different spec and class, a frost DK would have different stats from a fury warrior, but the same stats as another frost DK.

The difference in progression now comes from PVP talents and artifact weapons.

...and gear. .25% flat increase to your stat template per iLevel over 800

[ElDoorO]

Why would I play the game if I can't get better gear? PvP would be dead basically.

Many people would stop pvping if there was no new gear to get or gear didn't give some advantage.

Counter Strike says hello.

There are skins, pets, achievements, etc that you can get. If the ONLY reason you're playing is because you like having an advantage over someone else to make them easier to kill then you lack skill and, to be frank, you aren't going far anyways. You'll quit at or below 1800.

I don't think "many" people would stop. I think it'd be a small few. Further, I think it'd bring in far more than we'd lose. It would remove a dynamic that make it hard to tell where someone went wrong. If we KNOW all things being equal -- it's either a skill or a class imbalance.

Did they go for haste/crit when they should have went mastery/vers? That shouldn't matter -- AT ALL.

To add, I wish Mythic Raiding was like this too. Gear should be normalized and you should be instanced with BiS gear. This would mean that you can't ever cheese mechanics. You can't ever go back and get that Mythic (formerly Heroic) achievement without genuinely earning it.

Competitive things in this game should be EARNED. Not cheesed.

Even random battlegrounds should be considered "competitive" for practice reasons. We *NEED* fresh blood in this game and pushing them away isn't going to help just because we want the few stubborn that will stick. There's nothing fun losing simply because you are out geared. No longer will they have that as an excuse if we do away with it. They simply got outplayed.

I once 1v1'ed a rogue as a rogue. We had equal gear. I was doing pretty well in arena and thought I was the bomb diggity. They handily owned my ass. Let me CD's come back up, let me heal back up, owned me again. Obviously I was out-skilled. I couldn't blame it on gear and we were in the same spec. This is how it should be. I lost fair and square. Cheesing because you lack the skill is pretty lame.

[Alvito]

Counter Strike says hello.

There are skins, pets, achievements, etc that you can get. If the ONLY reason you're playing is because you like having an advantage over someone else to make them easier to kill then you lack skill and, to be frank, you aren't going far anyways. You'll quit at or below 1800.

I don't think "many" people would stop. I think it'd be a small few. Further, I think it'd bring in far more than we'd lose. It would remove a dynamic that make it hard to tell where someone went wrong. If we KNOW all things being equal -- it's either a skill or a class imbalance.

Did they go for haste/crit when they should have went mastery/vers? That shouldn't matter -- AT ALL.

To add, I wish Mythic Raiding was like this too. Gear should be normalized and you should be instanced with BiS gear. This would mean that you can't ever cheese mechanics. You can't ever go back and get that Mythic (formerly Heroic) achievement without genuinely earning it.

Competitive things in this game should be EARNED. Not cheesed.

Even random battlegrounds should be considered "competitive" for practice reasons. We *NEED* fresh blood in this game and pushing them away isn't going to help just because we want the few stubborn that will stick. There's nothing fun losing simply because you are out geared. No longer will they have that as an excuse if we do away with it. They simply got outplayed.

I once 1v1'ed a rogue as a rogue. We had equal gear. I was doing pretty well in arena and thought I was the bomb diggity. They handily owned my ass. Let me CD's come back up, let me heal back up, owned me again. Obviously I was out-skilled. I couldn't blame it on gear and we were in the same spec. This is how it should be. I lost fair and square. Cheesing because you lack the skill is pretty lame.

Entirely different type of game. You could use the flip side of that to say counter strike could be better if it had things that would improve you along the way. Just look at pvp from any mmo.... oh wait those aren't legit comparisons.

[ElDoorO]

Entirely different type of game. You could use the flip side of that to say counter strike could be better if it had things that would improve you along the way. Just look at pvp from any mmo.... oh wait those aren't legit comparisons.

Different game doesn't matter. Competition is competition.

You *might* be able to argue that but the fact that there are *still* tournaments revolving around Counter Strike (the original), CS:GO, etc is something that can not be denied.

To help you understand since competition may be something you've never done before. When you start a game of Counter Strike you play for X amount of rounds and have a fairly low max currency to buy weapons. Everyone starts with similar weapons and the same amount of currency. Even if you lose, you still gain a small bit of currency so as not to be fucked. The max currency isn't set absurdly high so the winning team *can* be brought down over time and can't be so absurdly out of reach they practically can afford the best things forever. Since each team effectively has access to similar items -- it's pretty balanced. Every now and then the map restarts and everyone is back to square one. The restarts aren't months long either. They vary but you can usually go through a few maps a night -- so meaning if you join mid to late game, you may be behind but you aren't FUCKED because you can still pick up enemy weapons and such.

The same could be applied in WoW. You're given the BiS items and potentially a choice in trinkets for whatever style you want to play.

This is called a "fair comparison". Both teams in both games are relatively the same, they start out on fair ground. Neither have an inherent advantage over the other and neither can gain some unusually high advantage.

There's practically no reason for random BG's, rated BG's, Ashran, and arena's not to just give you BiS gear. Unless, of course, you want to cater to people who need gear to compensate for.. *ahem* something they are short of such as skill which seems to be the only reason to defend not doing this.

Since you seem to only play WoW and probably no other MMO's I'll point you to sPVP in Guild Wars 2. They've done it correctly, hell even low levels can join on in with the high levels. *gasp*. This gives fresh blood something to do with max level people (blasphemy to the World of Warcraft community, I know).