Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

At least it facilitated a discussion if nothing else.

Unless Blizzard says anything its not a discussion but 5 years olds crying "gimme gimme cause I want it!"

[Jewsco]

I used it as a fact to showcase there is genuine interest. Which there is, how high it is can be debated (I never argued it was proof of endless demand). My sole argument is the existence of private servers and their success in terms of how high the demand actually is. And that is, if I choose to neglect all the potential people who could be interested but avoid private realms. You, sir/miss, are on deep water if you bring up the idea of splitting those between WotLK and TBC as well, as I said: those big private servers numbering half a dozen are Vanilla exclusive, only.

So none of that "success" is based off the fact it is free?
They would all start to pay blizz for it?
Yet the petition can't even hit the numbers of the "active" server of one of these private servers?
Any more bs you got for the rest of us?

[xChurch]

Well, I guess you prove my point, and I was right in not bothering to make a long post and a lot of arguments that would be just wasted efforts dismissed mindlessly by people who just want to dismiss anything which contradict what they want to believe.

Your completely devoid of actual evidence argument? Yes I agree that was quite pointless. I really couldn't care less what your logical mind tells you, I want actual numbers, actual proof, not just guesses and assumptions. It's mind boggling how you don't see why that wouldn't be convincing. Especially when your argument requires me to believe that Blizzard is intentionally ignoring such a low-cost venture simply for PR reasons.

[Ielenia]

We need proof this is true. You are just making up things to support your argument.
You must provide undeniable proof from Blizzard , or this is just assumptions on your part.

You have not seen the photos of their hardware, of all the server blades and racks they have? Besides, they've said it themselves about the logistics and resources needed for such an endeavor. Why would they say that if they wouldn't be doing the work themselves?

[Triks]

Maybe disposable income but not the time to grind out a game like back when a teen.
Maybe why MMO's overall are fading away and hardcore ones like wildstar failed.

I don't think MMO's are fading away - they were never popular to begin with, WoW was - but that WoW failed to attract new players with the whole Cata revamp and class simplification while also managing to piss off long-time players. As it stands, the game caters to only 20% of its audience which are the 10% at the bottom that want everything for free and subsequently got LFD, LFR and Garrisons and Mythic raiders who only care about Mythic and nothing else. The other 80% are left with nothing.

WildStar had a lot of problems on launch.

So we should seperate his twitter messages from his persona? how silly and ironc can you get....

Always keep an open mind. I have often agreed with people whom I can't stand.

[Deleted]

The NA WOW forums will not allow this discussion to occur. Threads get deleted once moderated.

ofc your not allowed to discuss illigal things there...

Though the EU WOW forums does allow this conversation - link below if you want to follow
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1751857331

and this gives you hope? this only shows once more how fucking they dont care for eu forums....

[Tuesdays]

Can you show me with 100% fact they can not make a profit with Vanilla WoW?

Do I have access to to the unknown? Nope.

I believe this is exactly why Blizzard doesn't jump off the cliff, they have no idea how far they will fall. To suggest otherwise is suicide, but by all means, if you have 100% facts on profit, let us know, let Blizzard know.

[Ielenia]

Usually, we don't trust criminal about their crime because they have an incentive for lieing about them (like reduced sentence). Regardless of the loaded "criminal" emphasis, what exactly would lieing bring to Nost guys ?
Fame ? Legitimacy ? Be it 400 000 or 800 000 it's all in the same ballpark anyway. Unless they inflated like one hundred-fold, which seems just conspirationist-theory worthy.

Fame. Support from the pro-vanilla crowd. Attempt to give their crime some form of legitimacy.

- - - Updated - - -

You can add anything from 3-10k more from other "free" servers. The demand for a product targeting such a demographic is present.

I wonder when did I ever claim there was no interest in classic servers... Oh, right: never.

Nostalrius is the tip of the iceberg. You see it, you hear about it right now, but there's much more where that came from.

And, just like Nostalrius, as soon as they get above the surface of the water they'll be beaten back down again or destroyed. So what?

[Tuesdays]

There's no such thing as a guaranteed success in development. Didn't you get the memo? The idea is that the potential demographic more than justifies an attempt at utlizing already existing code at some point (notice the term, I am not saying today, I am not saying tomorrow). This would be wise because they have already alienated the demographic in question a long time ago, so the idea that will truly split their playerbase is a fraud. The playerbase has been split for years. They left the game a while ago, and at some point they may never return. I am not saying that it should necessarily be implemented before or even after Legion, but to ignore the idea on the premises that have been made (such as bullshit excuses about lost code) is about as stupid as it can get. Legacy servers for a game, that in it's classic state resonated with millions of players at a time where the MMORPG-genre was far more narrow than now, could be the biggest success Blizzard ever ventured into. I don't think people realise how big Vanilla WoW was at the time, it created a cultural stigma that exists today, ten years later. Think about it.

Oh, btw: "the proof is out there". Just use google properly and spend more than 10 minutes researching the topic. I can not provide evidence as it is against forum policy.

You know what, I'm not even going to read it until you drop the bold text, and please if you're going to bitch about me not addressing the quote, don't quote me and rant about shit that has nothing to do with what I said.

[Atelniar]

So none of that "success" is based off the fact it is free?
They would all start to pay blizz for it?
Yet the petition can't even hit the numbers of the "active" server of one of these private servers?
Any more bs you got for the rest of us?

So, we're arguing monetization, are you in Ielenia's habit of arguing that a subscription model is the only way to go for a possible stale server that does not receive any updates (the idea of updates is the reason a subscription is justified to begin with, ironically, f2p titles receive far more frequent updates than WoW does)?

Put the petition aside for a moment and expand that narrowminded view. Think. Legacy servers are perfect for improving an issue WoW has had the last 5 years: catching the interest of new players. A f2p or b2p addition which no subscription would be required to play, could potentially bring in many new players as well. And, upon having their fill of Classic WoW they might be genuinenly interested in seeing what the current expansion offers, no?

[Akka]

Legacy servers (done right) aren't going to be cheap. The amount of overhead required to modernize Classic WoW (or BC/Wrath WoW) is a large task considering the interfacing with b.net.

Bullshit. They could do it with old games which have practically no sales and no sub today (Warcraft III, Diablo 2, Starcraft), but they wouldn't be able to do it for a game with sub and much higher exposure ?

Even if Blizzard had the old server blades around, it would be a nightmare in terms of upkeep because parts would be very rare.

Bullshit again. If a bunch of guys working on their free time can make an emulation of the game on a regular rented server and manage to get very acceptable performance for three to five times the amount of player of a retail server, then Blizzard working on its own code with its own hardware and its own programmer can certainly do at least as much.

Lastly there's always the cost factor. Would private servers actually have a large following if there was a sub fee? Say equal if not more than the current wow sub?

The technical cost is about the price of the hardware for a few servers (not that high) and maybe a few monthes for a few engineers to make the software adaptation and integration. Even if it was a total failure with ZERO subscribers, it would still be pocket change, in the few tens to maybe one hundred thousands bucks. That's as low-risk as you can be when it comes to costs.
There is tens of thousands people playing on private servers. That alone is a fraction of people who might be interested in Vanilla - plenty don't play on PS. The potential for at least breaking even is easily here.
That's both low-risk and low-cost.

Again, the real problem is the risk when it comes to PR, loss of face, strategy, etc.
There is where the risks rise, and what the direction can consider that long-term, the potential damage to the brand might be high.

[Ielenia]

You can't look at private server numbers and expect the same if official servers come out. Private servers are a niche thing and 15k peak players is VERY impressive for a private server. Most players either don't know about them or don't bother trying to install them because they're private servers ("not the real thing"). If Blizzard comes out with official private servers it's a whole different story. A lot more people will play than a private server.

If it is free, maybe. But according to what Blizzard has said about it ever since the first question about classic servers came about, they won't be making it free.

[Atelniar]

You know what, I'm not even going to read it until you drop the bold text, and please if you're going to bitch about me not addressing the quote, don't quote me and rant about shit that has nothing to do with what I said.

So you give up? Awesome.

[Gadzooks]

Can you show me with 100% fact they can not make a profit with Vanilla WoW?

The reality that Blizzard hasn't done it. Do you really think they'd walk away if these mythical millions of dollars were on the table?

The people running Blizzard aren't dumb - not the WoW devs, the guys in the corporate suite, who make the business plans for the company. If there was a business case to be made to bring in a significant amount of money - much like the decision to roll out Hearthstone and HOTS and Overwatch - do you really think they'd say no?

It's the same reasoning they closed down Titan - the ongoing expense wasn't matching the expected revenue of 0, because the project was too flawed to continue. But, they saw profit in the PvP portion, and viola - Overwatch.

Your entire premise, and the premise of too many of the small crowd bellowing about this is, you think Blizzard is dumb.

They built and run a billion dollar company, listed on the stock exchange, with positive growth projected for the future, and record gains in profit and stock price.

You have...what?

To think you know more than trained professionals who sell video games for a living is...well, it's cute from one angle, and it's insufferably arrogant from another.

Tell you what - when you land a job at a gaming company as large as Blizzard, where your research and work building business plans for profitability are your job duties, then you can start swinging your big ePeen around about how much you know, and how sure your fantasies about legacy servers and their profitability are. Okay?

[Atelniar]

I wonder when did I ever claim there was no interest in classic servers... Oh, right: never.

Yet, you attempt to refute it by implying that the "free"-label somehow devalues the interest in any shape or form? You know, as if price had anything to do with lessening the potential demographic before Blizzard even decides on a potential monetization model? You even have a pre-determined stance that it MUST be a subscription model to make a profit. A stance that you have never even provided evidence or logic behind.

[Deleted]

after legion will be: world of safespace: hello kitty^^ *FREE EPIC with every purchase!

Nope after reading the lastest novel the next target would be Argus....

[Mullet Man]

You have not seen the photos of their hardware, of all the server blades and racks they have? Besides, they've said it themselves about the logistics and resources needed for such an endeavor. Why would they say that if they wouldn't be doing the work themselves?

This is conjecture on your part and just something you are using to push your agenda.
It is on you to provide undeniable proof this is actually how they will do it.

[Tuesdays]

So you give up? Awesome.

Yes, I give up if you cannot back up what you say. It isn't worth my time listening to you rant about all the answers you have, yet cannot provide any, you dance around with the same bullshit.

I asked you how much it would cost, how it would be implemented, how to monetize legacy.

What did you say? Blahblahblah lied about this blahblahblah they can do it, blahblahblah greedy!

Has nothing to do with your cause, you want everyone to listen to you, and this is all you have to say?

Legacy is going far guys.

[Mullet Man]

If it is free, maybe. But according to what Blizzard has said about it ever since the first question about classic servers came about, they won't be making it free.

You are making up things again.
If you are going to state things as fact, you must provide proof.

[Deleted]

vanilla balance was bad yes you are right, but at least there was diversity, and a feeling of value behind various classes for various activitie.

how people still clinge to this lie is beyond me. even Nost proves you wrong in this point 1/3 of all players was Warriors....