Should WoW also add a Paragon-level system once you hit max-level?

[Kryos]

The World Quest system and all the Diablo-like things in Legion made me wonder if one important thing from Diablo 3 should also be added now.

WoW character progress is 100% exclusively via gear. If you don't get better gear, it's useless. That's how WoW works (unfortunally). It's a bit one dimensional and also limiting the rewarding system (giving mythic or heroic loot for clicking something on a table always felt wrong and exessive).

We need smaller but still meaningful endgame rewards outside of raids to make people play in the world even when their gear is already BiS. That would be good for the game if you meet players all the time in the world and not just at the start of the expansion.

Imagine you could continue to level "Paragon" levels doing outworld content like the new World Quests.

They could increase other things like the speed how fast you can gather, craft or cook, more gold dropping from mobs or a small movement speed boost (let's say capped at 10%). Just like Paragon levels you would need to spend points in those, too to continue spending in base stats. When you capped all stats you would only increase your base stats. The great thing about this is, you don't need a group (but they could give a small paragon xp boost for playing in a group), you can do it at your own pace, everybody gets it and if you want more, you just play more.

The final difference (at the end of the expansion for example) should be measurable there but not gamebreaking high (lt's say the dps difference between a high paragon level player and low paragon player with identical gear and skill is 5% max).

[A Chozo]

We need smaller but still meaningful endgame rewards outside of raids to make people play in the world even when their gear is already BiS. That would be good for the game if you meet players all the time in the world and not just at the start of the expansion.

Imagine you could continue to level "Paragon" levels doing outworld content.

You are proposing a change in the very gameplay of WoW: instead of gear-progression, now you have exp-bar progression. There are other ways to make people go to the world, Blizzard just isn't very capable of implementing it well enough. Paragon levels is a way, but IMO it isn't a good one.

[angrys13]

I have nothing constructive to add to this. I'm not sure how you think this is a good idea. It's already a bad idea in Diablo that encourages unfair playstyles.

[ro9ue]

I think this is what a new MMO should have instead of traditional leveling. This way the player base isn't segregated, all content is always relevant, but it would take time to fill out all your best gear and stats in a paragon system. But a noob and a veteran would be much closer in power to each other.

[Isheria]

You even played diablo? Endless paragon levelling is basically the bane of that game so i'm not even sure how you think adding it to WoW is a good idea. The greater rifts and bounties getting ported to WoW were actually good features to port but endless paragon levelling is not.

[Kryos]

You are proposing a change in the very gameplay of WoW: instead of gear-progression, now you have exp-bar progression. There are other ways to make people go to the world, Blizzard just isn't very capable of implementing it well enough. Paragon levels is a way, but IMO it isn't a good one.

Getting a real piece of loot would still be the most important thing. But since you can only get raid loot from the same boss once a week, you are pretty much done with stuff to do between raids or after clearing the raid id for the week. This is where Paragon levels help to continue to reward you for playing in the time between the big pieces of loot.

"My" or better the Diablo 3 system of Paragon levels allows you to add minor stat increases all over the character, independet of the gear. But even with Paragon level 1000 in Diablo 3 you still need to wear actual gear to be able to fight and kill monsters. Same would still apply in WoW.

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You even played diablo? Endless paragon levelling is basically the bane of that game so i'm not even sure how you think adding it to WoW is a good idea. The greater rifts and bounties getting ported to WoW were actually good features to port but endless paragon levelling is not.

Really? I think Paragon levels where a great addition and a major motivator since you get the levels no matter how bad your loot luck is. I only have a Paragon level 700 in this D3 season and consider myself a D3 casual (haven't played D3 for a while now after I got a full set on each of my alts and some very good items on my main but I will play Season 6, again).

They always can cap the number of paragon levels you can do each month to preven people burnout themself (or start using bots for unfair advantages). They could make it so, that playing 1 hour each day would cap you for the month. That's still veeery much playing but not the unhealthy numbers D3 streamers and botters have and you can not play for days and still catch up if you think you have to cap each month. Don't focus so much on these finer tuning details more on the general concept of a second progression path.

BTW: The legendary ring and the artifacts where already a similar system, just limited to a single expansion and a single item. But there are many players who haven't capped their legendary ring or even have the legendary version of the ring and there is not much uproar about that.

[Frolk]

Blizz cant handle bots now, how u think they would do if they added this? amount of bots would skyrocket

[Deleted]

Why is it always grinding that comes out of "casuals" mouths?

Why not just try to progress up the difficulty ladder then begging blizzard to let you no life it?

[Rendark]

No thank you.

[Arkura]

Bad idea.....

[Deleted]

NO, progression atm is leveling and gear we dont need something as bad as fake (aka paragon) levels added to wow.
There IS stuff to do outside raiding - people just tend not to do it.

[sleezyg]

They basically are it is just with artifact power and not XP. After you finish your artifact tree there is a talent off to the side to you fill up more more and more player power. They could change it, and probably will when people realise this and the forums explode, but as it stands now the final point takes over 800k artifact power to fill.

[Kryos]

Blizz cant handle bots now, how u think they would do if they added this? amount of bots would skyrocket

Just like they did with the legendary ring? If you cap it each month at a resonable rate, then bots won't help much.

[ComputerNerd]

You are proposing a change in the very gameplay of WoW: instead of gear-progression, now you have exp-bar progression. There are other ways to make people go to the world, Blizzard just isn't very capable of implementing it well enough. Paragon levels is a way, but IMO it isn't a good one.

No content in the world is going to be universally appealing.
No matter how they do it.

The new world quests are a good step in the right direction though, in offering a variety of content you can see and go do as and when it suits you.

[Kryos]

Why is it always grinding that comes out of "casuals" mouths?
Why not just try to progress up the difficulty ladder then begging blizzard to let you no life it?

I'm a mythic raider. Are you happy with logging in 2-3 times each week, do your raid, log out and be done with the game? No need to enter the world, no social contacts outside the raid? I think this system would give the people a reason to go out in the world again. Just like they did during Vanilla and BC. They had reputation grinds to make you go out. I think a Paragon system is more universal and lasting than grinding reps for yet another faction.

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NO, progression atm is leveling and gear we dont need something as bad as fake (aka paragon) levels added to wow.
There IS stuff to do outside raiding - people just tend not to do it.

Continue... why don't they. How can you make them interested? A game that is about progression and better stats needs to give you progression and better stats. New loot is just a very big step on your progression ladder. The paragon system is just baby steps in between and a reason to leave the citys.

[nazrakin]

The artifact system is basically wow's version of paragon levels. The design is different but they share the goal of providing players with an additional power progression beyond level cap and gear treadmill.

[Socialhealer]

yeh give a reason to bot 24/7 like diablo 3, it's fun going lol 170 hours played of season 5 when game been out for 180 hours, 10 hours sleep/food/wash etc? yup seems legit don't ban this player.

[Kryos]

The artifact system is basically wow's version of paragon levels. The design is different but they share the goal of providing players with an additional power progression beyond level cap and gear treadmill.

Yep, I mentioned that, but it's a system with a cap and once you reached that cap it's back to the old big-step upgrade system (you will cap your weapon talent tree and then you only increase in big chunks of raid upgrades).

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yeh give a reason to bot 24/7 like diablo 3, it's fun going lol 170 hours played of season 5 when game been out for 180 hours, 10 hours sleep/food/wash etc? yup seems legit don't ban this player.

Resonable monthly paragon point cap - problem solved. Next.

[Deleted]

Resonable monthly paragon point cap - problem solved. Next.

Then what's the point? Just another thing to cap or you fall behind.

[nazrakin]

Yep, I mentioned that, but it's a system with a cap and once you reached that cap it's back to the old big-step upgrade system (you will cap your weapon talent tree and then you only increase in big chunks of raid upgrades).

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Resonable monthly paragon point cap - problem solved. Next.

Yeah but in a game like WoW Im not sure you can have a system that doesn't cap player power levels.