US and Germany say No to Poland on Nato base

[caervek]

20th century: Poland = sad because USSR building bases in Poland
21th century: Poland = sad because USA not building bases in Poland

Poor Polan, Polan just want be stronk.

[Deleted]

Too risky to place a base there.

In the case Poland gets overrun by Russia, western countries still rather don't want to get sucked into a possible WW3, so Poland can be sacrificed for that.

[Cybran]

Those nations would love to be marginalized by the west. It's a step up from being shit on by Mother Russia. Baby steps.

They were led on that they would be treated as equals (which is why Poland was the first country to jump to invade Iraq), but as the Polish foreign minister said the USA treats Poland like a Hooker and doesn't even pay well.

[Notchris]

Soooooooooooo...wait a minute.

You're always blubbering about the West doing things like opening bases and shit.

But now, NOT opening a base is bad.

Fucking hell. That's some insane doublethink.

[Mehrunes]

The Polish minister wants a permanent base, but the Americans and Germans told him to fuck off. How is this not a sign of a strained and unequal relation?

And "Poland says it wants bases" "NATO has to obey" would be equal relationship? What? Anyway, why would anyone in the world care what Waszczykowski has to say? He's a certified failure even by the current government's standards (and they barely have any standards for anything). When even PiS politicians think you're embarrassing Poland, then you're indeed the embodiment of embarrassment.

[Slant]

I still don't know why we keep bases in the original NATO countries and not move the bases forward to the Balkans, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, etc.

Personally, I'd say it's because they're new members and I'd like to see them in NATO for a decade or two before investing billions into military infrastructure there.

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Too risky to place a base there.

In the case Poland gets overrun by Russia, western countries still rather don't want to get sucked into a possible WW3, so Poland can be sacrificed for that.

Nah, that hasn't stopped the allied forces from planting a solid amount of bases in West Germany. This is the time of the cold war were projections had Russians in Hamburg within 2 hours of a war in theoretical scenarios.

[Ravenblade]

They were led on that they would be treated as equals (which is why Poland was the first country to jump to invade Iraq), but as the Polish foreign minister said the USA treats Poland like a Hooker and doesn't even pay well.

Two things:

- the 2nd Iraq war wasn't a NATO-run war, so if some Polish minister thought jumping to the US side in 2003 would earn them bonus points for future NATO ops then he simply erred because doctrines have changed and it never works. I mean it would be like gifting my boss a chocolate bar for a wage raise.

- not building NATO bases should actually appeal to people who always criticized the constant expansion towards the East as a way to offend Russia

[Cybran]

- not building NATO bases should actually appeal to people who always criticized the constant expansion towards the East as a way to offend Russia

It's a lose-lose situation for America. The Polish government will grow more radical as a result. I just made the thread to gloat about the failing NATO alliance.

[Crispin]

Atleast it'll stop your "NATO is encircling Russia, agression agression!" Nonsense.

Countries not beeing able to order bases like it's a pizza isnt newsworthy.

[GennGreymane]

It's a lose-lose situation for America. The Polish government will grow more radical as a result. I just made the thread to gloat about the failing NATO alliance.

Gloat? What did you have to do with it?

[Kellhound]

It's a lose-lose situation for America. The Polish government will grow more radical as a result. I just made the thread to gloat about the failing NATO alliance.

Failing? Hardly. That NATO isnt building permanent bases doesnt mean much when NATO countries are cycling troops through Poland in a consistent manner and conducting integrated training exercises regularly. You just need enough US troops present to perform a tripwire function and present a "Those F'ing Russians killed Americans! Burn them to hell!" moment for America.

[Sunseeker]

I still don't know why we keep bases in the original NATO countries and not move the bases forward to the Balkans, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, etc.

Really? You can't even wager a guess?

Okay, I'll give you a hint. It starts with an "R" and ends with an "-ussia".

[breadisfunny]

poland should show them who's boss and invade germany.

[Wyrt]

poland should show them who's boss and invade germany.

Poland can into Germany. Gib clay.

[Xarkan]

It's a lose-lose situation for America. The Polish government will grow more radical as a result. I just made the thread to gloat about the failing NATO alliance.

So you are admitting to nation bashing?

[Easo]

poland should show them who's boss and invade germany.

Could actually work given the current German forces and the military buildup Poland has had. Number of tanks on each side is fascinating
Reverse blitzkrieg, anyone?
P.S.
I am joking.

[Bakis]

Cybran thread

They build a base, he would be mad and say they are trying to antagonize Russia

They dont build the base, he says some conspiracy garbage.

Haha exacly my thoughts. He is simply mad whatever is with NATO or EU or anything not in bed with Putin.

[Guy4123]

It's a lose-lose situation for America. The Polish government will grow more radical as a result. I just made the thread to gloat about the failing NATO alliance.

So hows that Warsaw Pact goi--oh never mind it hasn't been a thing for 25 years.

[Kallisto]

Personally, I'd say it's because they're new members and I'd like to see them in NATO for a decade or two before investing billions into military infrastructure there.

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Nah, that hasn't stopped the allied forces from planting a solid amount of bases in West Germany. This is the time of the cold war were projections had Russians in Hamburg within 2 hours of a war in theoretical scenarios.

Exactly and these days Russia which isn't USSR (much like UK isn't England) would get bogged down I'm Poland or eastern Germany if they went super dumb and invaded Europe. This is without the US. With the US they'd be lucky to reach Poland.

[Airlick]

How is them not expanding their force and budget not caring? Poland isn't off in no man's land and can be covered by existing bases and forces.

Poland is in fact a no man's land in both Russian and NATO strategical plans. The northern half of Poland is one huge plain with absolutely no notable natural defensive positions between Vistula (and that river is barely an obstacle, anyway) and Oder rivers. NATO intended to glass Poland in case of war with Russia in order to try to slow Russians down enough that they could organize their defenses along Oder river. Russians were aware of that and intended to blast through Poland, ignoring radiation, before NATO fortified their positions. They even designed a tank that was supposed to withstand the shockwave of a nuke and their main tanks came with an anti-radiation layer, the purpose of which was getting them as far west as possible before the crews fell sick.

But yeah, the whole eastern Europe is supposed to be a buffer for core NATO countries, so it's obvious they won't establish bases in Poland. They might establish a forward base in one of the baltic states to serve as a deterrent, but it will be a token force at best. Nor do we care, aside of our delusional minister of national defense, hardly anyone believes Russia is a threat - not because it lacks potential, as it could plow through baltic states and take half of Poland before NATO even printed their notes of protests, but because it's not in its best interest.