Drug for pedophiles to be tested in Swedish trial

[BuckSparkles]

This is the best you could come up with?

.

Let me ask you. What is your end goal?

If pedophilia were to be legalized, what's next? Bestiality? Necrophilia?

What level of decadence and depravity do we need to sink to please your crowd?

[Deleted]

I know all that - and of course I hope it's clear that I'm not advocating chemically castrating anyone. I don't even think a law like that would be tenable (ECHR would challenge the fuck out of it). However, a person who is a strict pedophile (with the caveat that it is probably a spectrum like anything, so ofc many of these people CAN have sex and relationships with adults) doesn't really have any "safe" (not frowned upon) sexual opportunities. By which I mean, in almost all societies except some specific countries with very low age of consent, such a person can't really do anything rather than just abstain from sex with their preferred partners, due to their preferred partners being children. Abstinence is easier with low libido, so I can see people taking a treatment like that voluntarily, and indeed, the authors themselves suggest it as a preventative measure, not punishment or forceful treatment etc.

The procedure sets a pretty horrible precedent. Imagine if they had proposed this as a way to "treat" gay people. The public outroar would have been extreme.

[Underverse]

Let me ask you. What is your end goal?

If pedophilia were to be legalized, what's next? Bestiality? Necrophilia?

What level of decadence and depravity do we need to sink to please your crowd?

The goal is to shift people away from the chimpanzee-like violence-as-a-means-to-everything mindset that we've cultured over the last 15,000 years+, and towards the bonobo-like let's-just-love mindset. A lot of our problems, as a society, come from weak social support networks. Increasing pair bonding via sex will strengthen those networks, and in turn we will see a decline in violence and violent crime, bigotry, hatred, and a vast landscape of actually destructive behaviors.

As to your question of what's next: bestiality and necrophilia have an additional disease component. Bestiality has a physical harm component. These could be justified under certain circumstances, but I would say that these circumstances would be much rarer, because you're no longer having a sexual interaction with another human, and thus you are gaining no pair-bonding benefit - which is the main benefit of any sexual interaction.

[BuckSparkles]

The goal is to shift people away from the chimpanzee-like violence-as-a-means-to-everything mindset that we've cultured over the last 15,000 years+, and towards the bonobo-like let's-just-love mindset. A lot of our problems, as a society, come from weak social support networks. Increasing pair bonding via sex will strengthen those networks, and in turn we will see a decline in violence and violent crime, bigotry, hatred, and a vast landscape of actually destructive behaviors.

You discount human nature completely.

If you make everybody exactly equal 100% in every way, I predict in a few years it will go back to how it was. We simply are not wired in the way you seem to think.

That is reality. People are imperfect creatures. There is no such thing as a perfect person free from any negative aspects.

[Underverse]

You discount human nature completely.

If you make everybody exactly equal 100% in every way, I predict in a few years it will go back to how it was. We simply are not wired in the way you seem to think.

That is reality. People are imperfect creatures. There is no such thing as a perfect person free from any negative aspects.

My entire argument is from human nature.

What I'm suggesting has nothing to do with equality.

What I'm suggesting will take time, but it's existed in the past.

What I'm suggesting is not a magic bullet to cure all of society's woes; it's just a beneficial effect that will ameliorate some of them.

[Egregious]

we have to get to human experimentation so that we can learn how to change sexualities.

Now that's a fucking rabbit hole if I've ever seen one.

[BuckSparkles]

My entire argument is from human nature.

What I'm suggesting has nothing to do with equality.

What I'm suggesting will take time, but it's existed in the past.

What I'm suggesting is not a magic bullet to cure all of society's woes; it's just a beneficial effect that will ameliorate some of them.

Where did this society exist in human history?

I just disagree with your idea.

I mean, sure, it would be great to have a society with no crime and everything else. But that just isn't realistic.

And to be civil, I just don't think enabling pedophilia will fix anything. I also see it as harmful..

[Egregious]

The very notion is repulsive to me and it sets a scary precedent. Testosterone is what makes men in to men.

But we all know men are bad. And if men are bad, and testosterone makes people into men, then we also know testosterone is bad. It's really very simple. Unsurprisingly, it took the cleverer gender to figure this out as men are blinded by inherent self-interest and Patriarchal biases.

[Underverse]

Where did this society exist in human history?

I just disagree with your idea.

I mean, sure, it would be great to have a society with no crime and everything else. But that just isn't realistic.

And to be civil, I just don't think enabling pedophilia will fix anything. I also see it as harmful..

I didn't say no crime. I said less crime. In fact, you already misrepresented my argument and I already corrected you once here.

There have existed many pederastic societies. The ancient Greeks (and even the Romans) usually get all of the attention, but there have been numerous African and Southeast Asian societies in which up to 100% of the male population engages in pederasty. But I was more referring to pre-agricultural times, before large populations of humans were divided into neat monogamous units for ease of control by a hierarchical cultural structure.

You can say you don't think it will fix anything, but you need to at least back this up with a logical argument, as I have done. And I understand that you see it as harmful, but I think you should do some introspection here and question whether you're just being stubborn or if there's a legitimate argument to be had.

[derpkitteh]

Now that's a fucking rabbit hole if I've ever seen one.

not when you also add a constitutional amendment saying that straight and gay sexualities will never be forcibly changed.

[Egregious]

inherently wrong

There is no such thing as inherent wrong. Hyperbole and irrational thought.

[Underverse]

not when you also add a constitutional amendment saying that straight and gay sexualities will never be forcibly changed.

Presumes knowledge of human sexuality. We're far from understanding it. We should probably understand something before we try to change it. Culture is the great deceiver.

[Egregious]

It's not curable. And it's not a disease.

It will likely be capable of manipulation one genetic engineering reaches a certain point. However, once we reach that point, I hesitate to think how we will utilize it.

No more mental disorders, no more physical disabilities, no more difference in sexual expression, identity, orientation. Only beautifully engineered Versace and McQueen model babies with 150+ IQs and Olympic athlete bodies... until that becomes boring. Life would certainly me more straight forward.

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if a PILL can CURE it then it is a DISEASE. not much to pick or choose from that sentence.

Assuming you actually believe the pill magically targets the undesired orientation and thought processes and converts them into healthy hetero/gay/whatever-it's-2016 orientation.

Which it doesn't, but God bless your magical thinking.

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People are idiots so I'm sure they'll push for pedophilia as a new sexuality. And I'm sure there will be activists. Personally, I think this is the wrong way to go about it. Sexuality is fabricated and only served to divide us into (ever smaller) groups. Orientation suggests exclusive attractions, and pedophilia is not exclusive to other sexual orientations.

But that's a very complicated concept. It's sooo much easier to define people categorically.

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That being said, pedophilia is still something that should be legalized. Bonobo mothers use it to calm their children when they're getting out of hand (unlike we humans, who use violence). Human morphology suggests a greater extent of this behavior due to our lowered sexual dimorphism and neotenous traits. If it's approached from a parenting practice and contrasted against the violent tactics we use now, I think it could gain acceptance, and rightly so. People have failed to divorce destructive pedophilia from benevolent pedophilia for too long. It's like conflating sex and rape. The logic is there, people just need to take a moment to consider it.

I can hear the pitchfork militia being mustered. I, sir, would prepare myself for death threats.

[Underverse]

It will likely be capable of manipulation one genetic engineering reaches a certain point. However, once we reach that point, I hesitate to think how we will utilize it.

No more mental disorders, no more physical disabilities, no more difference in sexual expression, identity, orientation. Only beautifully engineered Versace and McQueen model babies with 150+ IQs and Olympic athlete bodies... until that becomes boring. Life would certainly me more straight forward.

Neural plasticity is very powerful. It can engender 5% rates of homosexuality or 100% rates of homosexuality, depending on culture. There are also many epigenetic changes that account for differences in behavior.

As someone in the heart of genetic engineering and biotech, I would prefer to see it used only for medical applications, not cosmetic. Cosmetics are far too culturally unstable/subjective, and changing genes carries significant risk.

[judgementofantonidas]

Well damn, I hope I don't get prostate cancer. Wouldn't want the cure to ruin my sex life

um. so you are afraid to cure your prostate cancer because you will stop liking younger women?

[Egregious]

Yes, if. But neither are.

I subscribe to orientations not being mutually exclusive but still being orientations theory.

[judgementofantonidas]

Like I said, its extremely hard to get 100% proof on somebody. Beyond reasonably doubt is not good enough for permanent solutions. Be it castrations or death.
For kids you atleast got semen that can be found(still not 100%, but very close)(and it does not include other kinds of molesting and woman doing it), but standard rape cases? Jesus, thats probably the hardest crime to even find proof for it to be beyond reasonable doubt.

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Well good thing it can't be 'cured' then, eh?

there is no proof either way. but from my perspective no, it inst good it cannot be cured.

[Underverse]

But that's a very complicated concept. It's sooo much easier to define people categorically.

True. It's easier to generalize and categorize. I'm worried, though, that sometimes these categories are not good approximations of human nature or individual qualities, and serve only to divide us along exclusive lines.

I can hear the pitchfork militia being mustered. I, sir, would prepare myself for death threats.

There is sad truth to this.

[judgementofantonidas]

But the proposed treatment doesn't cure anything. It simply suppresses the subjects libido by lowering testosterone levels in the blood to the same levels as that of a prepubescent boy. If that is a cure then it is also a cure for homosexuality and heterosexuality.

oh well. maybe the next drug.

[Underverse]

um. so you are afraid to cure your prostate cancer because you will stop liking younger women?

Sigh. It's been explained to you so many times. Reducing testosterone reduces ALL sex drive. Not just to younger people.

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oh well. maybe the next drug.

That's not how these things work.