Demonic Gateway

[Drakile]

Gateway seems to be sticking around into Legion sadly, even though Teleport is being moved to a talent. Does anyone think we will ever see a Demonic Gateway with no pathing restrictions? Allowing us to use it to traverse vertical terrain, or non linear terrain like over gaps.

[hiramloram]

It will mostly be left as it is now, but periodically nerfed if people use it to any significant benefit. Its cooldown time may be increased again. It may be completely removed. It won't be improved.

[Ghormus]

I don't really see it being changed as a whole to be honest.

[Soulzar]

Gateway seems to be sticking around into Legion sadly

I'm not really sure why there is disappointment that we didn't get a useful spell pruned...

[Duckz0rs]

I'm not really sure why there is disappointment that we didn't get a useful spell pruned...

Probably because most people see it as a personal movement spell, even though it's a general utility spell. Makes it look comparable to Teleport, in which case most people would prefer this one to go over that one.
Made the mistake myself as well "because I can use this spell to move around". The more important part is that everyone in your group/raid/team can use it, making it a general utility spell instead of a personal movement spell. The whole thing stems from a false comparison between Gateway and Teleport in my (hindsight) opinion.

Speaking of, did the cooldown debuff on Demonic Gateway get increased to 2 minutes in Alpha?

[Felpacino]

Gateway should be a talent and Teleport should be a baseline. Also Gateway Artifact Talent should be changed to Teleport heal with a lesser heal to balance it.

[Drakile]

I'm not really sure why there is disappointment that we didn't get a useful spell pruned...

My issue with it stems a bit from what Duck said, I am comparing it to Teleport.

Also the amount if times I have used gateway and been asked to used gateway, pales in comparison to the amount of times that I have used Teleport to much greater effects, especially for PvP with Teleport on a 30 second cd vs Gateways 45s-2 Minute debuffs.

Plus a larger issue I have is that it requires pathing to work, which means in a BG or arena when you are trying to escape someone, where before you could just turn into a pile of dust and be somewhere out of sight perhaps. Now with gateway not only can everyone see that I would be running towards it and plan accordingly, they can also see where I'll be coming out, after which closing that tiny distance is no issue at all.

To me while it is nice because more people can use it doesn't provide the mobility that I feel locks need to get away from melee. While I understand were being moved away from mobility and all that with "Class Fantasy", I am going to miss Teleporting out of sight.

Not to mention the clunky set up time of trying to find the sweet spot/ the furthest point the Gateway will go, Then cast it which can be interrupted easily.

[Phoenexis]

Probably because most people see it as a personal movement spell, even though it's a general utility spell. Makes it look comparable to Teleport, in which case most people would prefer this one to go over that one.
Made the mistake myself as well "because I can use this spell to move around". The more important part is that everyone in your group/raid/team can use it, making it a general utility spell instead of a personal movement spell. The whole thing stems from a false comparison between Gateway and Teleport in my (hindsight) opinion.

Speaking of, did the cooldown debuff on Demonic Gateway get increased to 2 minutes in Alpha?

If it were simply a general utility spell then Blizzard wouldn't have the grand idea of giving Destro locks an artifact talent that heals them for 100% of their HP when using the Gateway.

Demonic Gateway is such a cancerous ability for PvP that does nothing but gut the PvP experience. Blizzard has previously stated that "we're not balanced around having Gateway up in PvP" yet they give us tools that say otherwise.
It's such a chore that you have to set up both your Demonic Circle and Gateway if you ever wanna get into a fight while being 100% efficient, and Gateway in of itself is so annoying to even fight against.

I wish they'd just remove it given the amount of problems it's created both in PvE and PvE. Funny how they keep on pruning some of the most iconic and "fantasy defining" abilities in the game yet still keep things like Gateway.

[Duckz0rs]

If it were simply a general utility spell then Blizzard wouldn't have the grand idea of giving Destro locks an artifact talent that heals them for 100% of their HP when using the Gateway.

That doesn't really change anything about what I said. I can't think of a better way to illustrate what I mean, so I'll use a fictitious example: Let's say Enhancement Shamans have an Artifact Trait that doubles the effect of Bloodlust on only the caster and buffs everyone else for the normal value. That makes it a humongous self-buff, but it'll still be considered a raid/party/team buff in general. Likewise, even though we can use Gateway for movement ourselves and it now heals us, its core mechanic is still that everyone else can use it as well.

Just to be perfectly clear: if I had to choose between the two I'd choose Teleport 10/10 times. I just think it's not entirely fair to compare the two. Not quite apples and oranges because they both affect movement, but also very different because one is personal and the other can be used by every allied person.

[Phoenexis]

That doesn't really change anything about what I said. I can't think of a better way to illustrate what I mean, so I'll use a fictitious example: Let's say Enhancement Shamans have an Artifact Trait that doubles the effect of Bloodlust on only the caster and buffs everyone else for the normal value. That makes it a humongous self-buff, but it'll still be considered a raid/party/team buff in general. Likewise, even though we can use Gateway for movement ourselves and it now heals us, its core mechanic is still that everyone else can use it as well.

Just to be perfectly clear: if I had to choose between the two I'd choose Teleport 10/10 times. I just think it's not entirely fair to compare the two. Not quite apples and oranges because they both affect movement, but also very different because one is personal and the other can be used by every allied person.

You are absolutely right. But don't you think it's bad design to add personal benefits to general purpose abilities? It can lead to a great deal of problems: not usable in arena, conflict between what's "best for the player" and "best for the raid" (remember Unholy Dks' Unholy Frenzy?), varying degrees of effectiveness depending on the encounter (could end up broken).

In Destruction's case, I find it absolutely ridiculous that they'd tie a 100% heal to a general purpose ability. That's absolutely game-changing. So let's say Gateway ends up being OP in PvE encounters, Blizzard then decides to nerf it by increasing its cooldown/reducing its range/whatever. As a result, this directly nerfs Destruction's viability seeing as the spec has a whooping full heal on Gateway use.
General purpose abilities are tweaked according to their effectiveness on the group level. Tying a player's own efficiency to such spells means that they will subsequently suffer if such spells are making the group overperform, even though the player's class/spec might be just fine on its own.

[Jessicka]

My issue with it stems a bit from what Duck said, I am comparing it to Teleport.

Also the amount if times I have used gateway and been asked to used gateway, pales in comparison to the amount of times that I have used Teleport to much greater effects, especially for PvP with Teleport on a 30 second cd vs Gateways 45s-2 Minute debuffs.

Throw in a number of times I've been told to not use it, or move it to somewhere less obstructive...

[Duckz0rs]

You are absolutely right. But don't you think it's bad design to add personal benefits to general purpose abilities? It can lead to a great deal of problems: not usable in arena, conflict between what's "best for the player" and "best for the raid" (remember Unholy Dks' Unholy Frenzy?), varying degrees of effectiveness depending on the encounter (could end up broken).

In Destruction's case, I find it absolutely ridiculous that they'd tie a 100% heal to a general purpose ability. That's absolutely game-changing. So let's say Gateway ends up being OP in PvE encounters, Blizzard then decides to nerf it by increasing its cooldown/reducing its range/whatever. As a result, this directly nerfs Destruction's viability seeing as the spec has a whooping full heal on Gateway use.
General purpose abilities are tweaked according to their effectiveness on the group level. Tying a player's own efficiency to such spells means that they will subsequently suffer if such spells are making the group overperform, even though the player's class/spec might be just fine on its own.

Good point, but my answer would be yes and no. No, I don't think it's bad design by default. Yes, I do think this particular one (healing us through gateway) is bad design. Giving us a 100% heal through Gateway will make for weird odball usages at best and the scenario you described at worst. It might function as movement for everyone else but it's primarily healing for us.

On the other hand, we have the Affliction artifact trait Sweet Souls. It heals us for healthstone's value if someone ELSE uses it. I think that is a good idea that could be copied to Destro's Gateway Artifact Trait. Obviously it shouldn't heal us for 100% when other people use the Gateway but a much lower percentage. That could make for some interesting uses at best, and a little extra passive healing at worst.

[Soulzar]

In Destruction's case, I find it absolutely ridiculous that they'd tie a 100% heal to a general purpose ability. That's absolutely game-changing.

See, I don't really think traits like this one are supposed to be anything more than a "nice to have" perk. Not everything needs to be a drastic game changer. I don't look at things from a pvp perspective, so i apologize for that, but it seems that most time you'd be using portal would be to escape, and a free 50% heal is a nice perk.. but not something that's supposed to drastically alter gameplay in any way.

[Duckz0rs]

See, I don't really think traits like this one are supposed to be anything more than a "nice to have" perk. Not everything needs to be a drastic game changer. I don't look at things from a pvp perspective, so i apologize for that, but it seems that most time you'd be using portal would be to escape, and a free 50% heal is a nice perk.. but not something that's supposed to drastically alter gameplay in any way.

But isn't that kind of the thing? It seems to be more of a gameplay altering trait than a nice to have one. I'm not sure how it'll work out in practice, so this is pure conjecture, but it might cause the Warlock him/herself to change the use of Gateway from mobility to healing usage for both PvP and PvE as the heal is quite substantial.
In my previous post I suggested changing the heal to heal us when other people use it (for a much, much lower percentage) like Affliction's Sweet Souls trait. I personally feel that would be more along the lines of nice to have as opposed to the possibly gameplay altering version we have now. Obviously feel free to correct me if my assumption is nonsense.