Legion Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't entirely disagree on the Esports part when it comes to WoW or any MMORPG. Honestly, it doesn't mean much to me. What means much to me is beings super successful and if it's Esports possible, so be it.


Still partially amazes me WoW is still in esports. I feel WoW is too complex(So many abilities and gameplay styles and such).

[Deleted]

Critical feedback is ok as long as it's clear and logical. Something like " we need new ideas" is not a good feedback.

Sure it is, in special when new ideas follow. Blizzard just needs to learn to also process feedback thats outside of their comfort zone.

There had been hundreds and thousands of ideas what could be changed. As like improvements for components that are actually played by many, and not a very few only. Think about LFR and making it engaging with actually adding gameplay. Think about the idea to add a PVE-Ashran. All that had been discussed over and over.. Tons of interesting ideas on the forums.. Blizzard just has to READ, no matter if they dislike the ideas themself.

[Synadrasa]

I really want to know how they will make world quest relevant. Will you need to do world quests for your artifact weapon? Or will we max out our artifact weapons so quick it won't matter and world quests will be reduced to blue gear/gold/cosmetics. World quests have to be integral to progressing your character, and more than just a couple of weeks, that's my biggest fear.

[Mawnix]

Sure it is, in special when new ideas follow. Blizzard just needs to learn to also process feedback thats outside of their comfort zone.

There had been hundreds and thousands of ideas what could be changed. As like improvements for components that are actually played by many, and not a very few only. Think about LFR and making it engaging with actually adding gameplay. Think about the idea to add a PVE-Ashran. All that had been discussed over and over.. Tons of interesting ideas on the forums.. Blizzard just has to READ, no matter if they dislike the ideas themself.

We had that. It was called Timeless Isle.

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I really want to know how they will make world quest relevant. Will you need to do world quests for your artifact weapon? Or will we max out our artifact weapons so quick it won't matter and world quests will be reduced to blue gear/gold/cosmetics. World quests have to be integral to progressing your character, and more than just a couple of weeks, that's my biggest fear.

It provides gear, reputation, gold, materials.. yeah.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sure it is, in special when new ideas follow. Blizzard just needs to learn to also process feedback thats outside of their comfort zone.

There had been hundreds and thousands of ideas what could be changed. As like improvements for components that are actually played by many, and not a very few only. Think about LFR and making it engaging with actually adding gameplay. Think about the idea to add a PVE-Ashran. All that had been discussed over and over.. Tons of interesting ideas on the forums.. Blizzard just has to READ, no matter if they dislike the ideas themself.

..A PVE Ashran? What do you mean by that?

We had that. It was called Timeless Isle.

At first I had fun with that, but eventually I was like "Meh" Whatevs.

[Mawnix]

..A PVE Ashran? What do you mean by that?

Ashran had PVE elements tied into its PVP elements, such as with the Ogre King, NPCs in the opposite faction holds, etc.

The only thing that comes to mind is a PVE zone that does just that.. just without the PVP.

Aka every PVE zone we've virtually had since Mists.

Aka Timeless Isle, Throne of Thunder, and Tanaan.

That's not an innovative idea. That's something they've been applying to their design philosophy the past two expansions.

[Wildmoon]

As i said, a game as old as world of warcraft, and a genre as saturated as "broad audience MMORPGs", there need to be innivations to rejuvenate the market.

Trying to rejuvenate the market solely to create hype and to find out later that all these new ideas don't work?

I wont get rid of the questing content. I just would not act as if it all was new while it infact is the old system with a new label. The only thing i ask for is not trying to blind people with labels, but to tell them the truth about the design intent, which just is to continue the path from WoD.

Your "new" and everyone "new" are just different. By new they mean new system. World Quest is a new system.

Blizzard should change a lot of paradigms. Just think about their focus on organized group play. While most of their players play matchmade content. Think about blizzards wish to run a MMORPG as a eSports game with a focus on competition which is quite contrary to the idea we talk about a RPG here, and not about one of their queue and play a round games they developed in the last months. This is actually World of Warcraft, and not Hearthstone. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG, which is based on RPG gameplay with crazy things like stories and class diversity, and not about "eSport everywhere"..

New content is what blizzard needs to add on a regular basis, and not just every six months with a drougt phase of years just melking subs. I wonder all those people stay subbed for the months blizzard defacto adds NOTHING to the game..

You are talking about design philosophy about which direction they should take the game to. It has nothing to do with the amount of content.

[Synadrasa]

Can't we talk about the alpha? Lets stop pretending you guys are designers and that any of your ideas are actually any good.

[Deleted]

It's meaningless to simply expect "innovation" when it can easily be argued that any change made to the game is simply a reorganization of what was established over 10 years ago in Vanilla.

But dont you see that MMORPGs with exactly the same structure arent successfull anymore? Dont you see that WoW, because of being old, loses a lot of customers every month and every year?

Is there a risk if you add a innovation? Sure there is. You actually have to learn what your customers want, and not focus entirely on streamlining the development process..

If you're looking for some massive ground-up redesign of how WoW and MMORPGs as a whole function, then I suggest you look for a different genre, because it ain't happening, at least not in the foreseeable future.

And exactly thats the problem. You know, SWTOR recently changed their game into a solo player experience with MMO elements. They had been really successfull doing so, beside the fact that Star Wars got hyped by the movie. I dont say it was those changes only, but they actually tried innovation and left their used-to-be design. This actually could be a pattern for Bilzzard..

I agree with Wildmoon. The biggest priority to making Legion successful gameplay-wise is to make sure that every component of it works in a fair, engaging, and rewarding fashion, and to make sure that those components mesh together properly to form a coherent, varied experience where all components complement each other in a positive way. World Quests, for example, aren't a re-branding of WoD quests, but rather a new way to present and tie together quest content.

I understand your opinion, i just dont share it. For the reasons that the genre and the game are not growing. And that people are burned out by the old concepts.

Don't expect a massive redesign of the way quests exist/function to be inherently good, instead prioritize improving the quantity, variety, rewards, and cohesiveness of quests, which is where WoD (endgame) quests generally failed.

They werent both instrinsically nor extrinsically rewarding. In Legion it seems, they are mainly extrinsically rewarding. You get very good items for literally collecting the same bear asses you collect for 10 years already.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Can't we talk about the alpha? Lets stop pretending you guys are designers and that any of your ideas are actually any good.

The only thing going around that's new is the World Quests and such. Artifacts are mostly done so to speak, it's just changing mechanics around is what's going on.

[Deleted]

..A PVE Ashran? What do you mean by that?

Imagine Ashran as like in WoD just as a PVE version. A instanced pve region which has both solo and group content, where you may decide where you want to participate. And ongoing repeating events. Think about the oger boss as a PVE boss which drops a currency.

Yeah, you will argue that this is better be done in the open world. Is it really if it also could include game compoents based on the typical raid structure with world changing events and a ongoing narrative during the instance? Think about a freestyle dungeon, a scenario with a epic group size.

At first I had fun with that, but eventually I was like "Meh" Whatevs.

No, timeless isle was too grindy. Kill a lot of frogs. So much fun. Not.

[Mawnix]

Imagine Ashran as like in WoD just as a PVE version. A instanced pve region which has both solo and group content, where you may decide where you want to participate. And ongoing repeating events. Think about the oger boss as a PVE boss which drops a currency.

Yeah, you will argue that this is better be done in the open world. Is it really if it also could include game compoents based on the typical raid structure with world changing events and a ongoing narrative during the instance? Think about a freestyle dungeon, a scenario with a epic group size.



No, timeless isle was too grindy. Kill a lot of frogs. So much fun. Not.

Literally what you're describing is Timeless Isle and a Raid Environment.

I'm failing to see how Timeless Isle was "too grindy" if it embodied what you want. You're going to have to kill X to gain Y. You're going to have to collect X to gain Y. That's how it works with everything.

If there's no replayability, it's just a one off. There has to be some sort of grind.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Imagine Ashran as like in WoD just as a PVE version. A instanced pve region which has both solo and group content, where you may decide where you want to participate. And ongoing repeating events. Think about the oger boss as a PVE boss which drops a currency.

Yeah, you will argue that this is better be done in the open world. Is it really if it also could include game compoents based on the typical raid structure with world changing events and a ongoing narrative during the instance? Think about a freestyle dungeon, a scenario with a epic group size.

No, I was just asking what you meant because I was curious.

No, timeless isle was too grindy. Kill a lot of frogs. So much fun. Not.

I was fine with Timeless Isle, not too bad but not awesome levels either. It WAS an experiment so it doesn't surprise me the quality wasn't as what it could of been.


Edit: Before anyone says anything, I'm not qualified or even close to being a dev but I do know the playerbase has suggested things in the past and they've come to live Wow.


(See Guild Banks)

[Deleted]

Literally what you're describing is Timeless Isle and a Raid Environment.

What i describe is a instanced event region with no given order of events but a narrative in these events with a lot of opportunities to play both in a raid group and to be able to do solo gameplay.

This is what i would imagine LFR to be.. and not .. run in a group behind a tank and press some buttons for the story only.. without actually any engaging gameplay.

I'm failing to see how Timeless Isle was "too grindy" if it embodied what you want. You're going to have to kill X to gain Y. You're going to have to collect X to gain Y. That's how it works with everything.

I never said Timeless isle embodies what i want. Timeless isle was a large grind region with killing mobs and collecting chests. And it wasnt rewarding enough. But thats just my opinion. Probably you really think it was the top event content.

If there's no replayability, it's just a one off. There has to be some sort of grind.

If replayability is limited to "kill 10 x" and "collect 20y" only, its not really fun. There is mystery, mastery, there are puzzles.. you can do a lot in a pve setting.

[Mawnix]

I never said Timeless isle embodies what i want. Timeless isle was a large grind region with killing mobs and collecting chests. And it wasnt rewarding enough. But thats just my opinion. Probably you really think it was the top event content.

Nope, I raided Heroic SoO at the time and, though I wanted the Golden Serpent Mount, I never felt a draw to the content for more than a week because it offered me nothing that I couldn't get from raiding.

I liked the design and appreciate it for what it was, but I see the flaws in it. I personally got tired of the zone after running through it for the first 2 weeks.

That's why I welcome an entire open world continent that has virtually the same effect, but without the grind for Coins, and instead giving me options to explore its PVE content through a variety of avenues.

Aka World Quests.

[Deleted]

That's why I welcome an entire open world continent that has virtually the same effect, but without the grind for Coins, and instead giving me options to explore its PVE content through a variety of avenues.

Aka World Quests.

I really hope world quests get implemented properly. It surely would be fun to play them. The question is just.. for how long..as it is just questing at the end. Something many MMORPG players do for or even more than 10 years already.

A genre thats stagnating and not getting innovations.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Wondering if Blizz is skipping this week for a build.

[Mawnix]

Wondering if Blizz is skipping this week for a build.

It's Tuesday, not Wednesday.

[Onikaroshi]

Wondering if Blizz is skipping this week for a build.

We'll see tomorrow most likely but doubt it, some weird bugs with the map fixed hopefully and maybe horde side of the scenario, probably won't be large if anything, oh and the Blood DK changes.

[George Costanza]

Its not thursday or friday.

(when they usually upload builds)