Dealing with trial attitudes & officer attendance.

[Deleted]

So to sum it up shortly; we're a 13/13 mythic guild who formed back in december, big roster changes have taken places & we're currently still undergoing recruitment of trials.

The issue is, atleast what i think is the standard, or quality so to speak of the trials we bring in.
The GM has a goal of being a top 200-300 guild come 2nd tier of legion and of course we're a lot who agrees.

Though we had some disagreements between the officers & core-raiders about the trials being promoted to raiders.

I'll give a few examples down below, what would you do in such situations? As i feel we're not handling the situation with trials good enough.

EXAMPLE 1:
After a trial failing multiple times on Zakuun mythic farm a core raider link's the WA's of seed placements (we all use same wa's in the guild) and the trial responds with: fuck you i dont need that shit.

Quite uacceptable in my opinion, even as a raider.

EXAMPLE 2:
A trial (deathknight) comming along on our 6th archimonde mythic kill; after wiping a few tries i notice his dmg is very low to the equally geared (also unholy) death knight. I ask him if he's even pre-soaking the fel pool to gain RP for emp ghoul & he answers with: no i dont need that stupid trick, i got enough runic power.

In my opinion trials refusing to follow tips (Which is actually helping them) is in no way tolerated; though i seems that way in the guild so far.


And my last concern is of quite another situation.

After our first mythic archi kill we've agreed that all players progressing on archi should get the mount, before anyone else is allowed to /roll. Everyone agreed. And players who already recieved the mount would stay for the remaining kills.

On our 3th & 4th kill one of our officers were missing due to getting a job & feeling exhausted. Fair enough that he's prioritizing real life over wow.

The thing is he then returned on the 5th kill, bought the mount off another core raider (for below 400k), and went on to not show up to the raid the week afterwards, despite the rule of being a player already recieved the mount should stay for future kills.

I have no clue if i should talk out loud. Say something to the officers/gm or what i should do.

Help you've got some contructive advice on how i should play this.

Regards

[Deleted]

Imo, trials or even raiders that refuse to use tricks to maximize dps or refusing to use weakauras for a specific boss, should have their position on the guild reevaluated. And, if those were their exact answers, they should be insta g-kicked.

As for the officer buying the mount from a raider, it's their business, but the raider should now have lowest priority on getting the mount. That's how I used to handle those situations when I was an officer.

[cFortyfive]

Help you've got some contructive advice on how i should play this.

Regards

Well not sure how constructive that's going to be but without a shred of a doubt fuck #1 that would 100% be an instant kick in the guild I am playing in. On the second I guess I would be more lenient depending on the demeanor of the player. How much you care about those tiny edges during farm really often is a matter of contention. Obviously that's no excuse to completely suck either so if that's the case he wouldn't be a long term trial around here either.

[Feuerbart]

First example I would classify as a no go.

Second example depends if you clearly state pre fight shenanigans as neccessary in your rules (I hate them with a passion).

Third example is 2 different problems.
a) One of your raiders selling his mount to another raider. In this case the one that sold it wouldn´t get another one from me.
b) Your officer not attending. You should deal with this as you would with any other raider.

Selling loot obtained in the raid as "main" need is an absolute no go in my eyes. And I would classify mythic end boss mounts as "main" need loot here.
You could have given it so someone that really wanted it or sold to a buyer instead.

[Deja Thoris]

Bleh I have to agree with c45 :P

If you want to be top200 then you need people with a competitive fire. Sounds like that DK's was snuffed out.

[Anastacy]

First 2 examples are instant GKicks. No if's and's or but's. Not wanting to improve upon simple suggestions does not bode well for a progression-oriented mindset. If someone has a legitimate excuse for not doing something, fine. But stomping one's feet, claiming they simply do not want to do it should be nipped in the bud by promoting them to "LFGuild" rank.

Last example (in 2 parts): personally, I'd be fine with guild members selling loot between themselves. So long as it's a stated rule, with clear guidelines, and above all: if you sell a piece, you do not get another until EVERYONE else who wants it gets one, and if your raid performance falls behind (due to powerful trinkets or weapons), then that may affect you being included in further raids. I would probably also require that any raid loot item sales would be openly announced to the guild.

An officer's attendance should be more strictly evaluated than a "raider" rank player's. Demote him, and re-evaluate his roster position accordingly.

[Lei]

First example I would classify as a no go.

Second example depends if you clearly state pre fight shenanigans as neccessary in your rules (I hate them with a passion).

Third example is 2 different problems.
a) One of your raiders selling his mount to another raider. In this case the one that sold it wouldn´t get another one from me.
b) Your officer not attending. You should deal with this as you would with any other raider.

Selling loot obtained in the raid as "main" need is an absolute no go in my eyes. And I would classify mythic end boss mounts as "main" need loot here.
You could have given it so someone that really wanted it or sold to a buyer instead.

This

How long before they start selling gear within the raid, and you have to stalk everyone to see if the one who got the loot actually has it 1-2 weeks later?
Bring up the problems calmly. then lay down rules firmly.

[Astynax]

You don't need WAs for the seed placement. DBM already does it for you. If that was actually their response with those words then there's an issue with them. If you're forcing WAs onto the group when it's not needed then that's your guild's issue

If that officer did that it should be a demotion and maybe replacement. They're supposed to set the examples, not be the worst in the group. Mount seller shouldn't get another one though or be put at the very end of the line

As for who gets promoted to raider level from trial, that's on the officers. Other raiders can have some input or give feedback, but the choice lies w management otherwise why even bother having the officer level

[Deleted]

A perfect person is not rude. However, it's not a perfect world. I've seen amazing players that are rude.

In practice you have to go on a case by case basis. If they are rude and good, it might be ok.

Beyond that it depends on your goal. If you need perfection you could kick rude good players.

[Jotaux]

If a person sold the mount they won then they should still be treated as if they won and not be able to roll again for the mount.

As for your trials, I would not find that attitude acceptable in a raid from anyone.

[shi]

You don't need WAs for the seed placement. DBM already does it for you. If that was actually their response with those words then there's an issue with them. If you're forcing WAs onto the group when it's not needed then that's your guild's issue

If that officer did that it should be a demotion and maybe replacement. They're supposed to set the examples, not be the worst in the group. Mount seller shouldn't get another one though or be put at the very end of the line

As for who gets promoted to raider level from trial, that's on the officers. Other raiders can have some input or give feedback, but the choice lies w management otherwise why even bother having the officer level

most guilds use DBM for seeds and it's fine, but if a trial in a guild that uses WA is fucking up seeds multiple times then yeah he better be downloading the fucking weakaura.

[Deleted]

My advice: leave that shitfest of a guild as soon as possible.

If all these things are even remotely accurate, there is no leadership, no integrity and no sense of community there. This will just be constant drama and bitching and I would not be up for that.

[Deja Thoris]

My advice: leave that shitfest of a guild as soon as possible.

If all these things are even remotely accurate, there is no leadership, no integrity and no sense of community there. This will just be constant drama and bitching and I would not be up for that.

So many peoples response is always "leave" and "kick"

Never "fix".

[Raiju]

I'm skeptical because both of your examples have such similar language that I doubt that's what was actually said. That aside, what you're experiencing is pretty par for the course for many new guilds once they start getting the mount kills, and once they start preparing for next expansion.

That guild isn't going anywhere, so if you personally want to aim for top 200 in legion you either have to force some changes or move somewhere else. Tell them exactly what your problems are and what you think should be done about it, if you want to stay.

[Deleted]

So many peoples response is always "leave" and "kick"

Never "fix".

I don't think you understand quite how bad the described situation is (if it is accurate).

- Trial members are refusing to play by the rules set by the raid, refusing to conform to their tactics played and seemingly this seems to be allright. At the very least this jepoardizes their goals to be a good raiding guild.

- Officers come in and circumvent and ignore rules set by the raid.

- Whoever runs this raid show a lack of judgement in terms if what rules they have to set, how they enforce these rules and whom they give power. ALl of this is catastrophic for a guild leadership. None of this would fly in my guild. None of this would happen in my guild. And if it would, the leadership would have failed big time to let it happen.

[Seramore]

EXAMPLE 1:
After a trial failing multiple times on Zakuun mythic farm a core raider link's the WA's of seed placements (we all use same wa's in the guild) and the trial responds with: fuck you i dont need that shit.

the fact that you didn't kick the trial on the spot for that is shocking. guilds have grown soft as fuck.

[Orangetai420]

Man, posts like this make me glad that I don't bother with competitive raiding.

Raiding should be about killing bosses and having fun. This leaderboard bullshit is such a joke. If you want to be competitive, play a competitive game against other players. I suggest chess.

I don't see how this mentality is good for the community in any sense - it breeds toxic and elitist players. Which is laughable in this game; people treat it as if its a legit competitive game.

[ceall]

about your zakuum example. i gotta say, i too never played that boss with WA, as DBM and exorsus did well enough. WA also is way too clunky for me, playing with power auras since cata and doing just fine. plus wa destroys my character screen (wenn i press C and look at my stats, every tab only shows the first row). never needed wa before (raiding since ICC), why would i need it now? if it works, it's fine.

if a guild says 'hey, here's our wa' i do copy it, for the case, that something doesn't work. but i also tell them, that i never played with wa, that i hate it, but i will try it, if i fail without.

[Overdispersion]

To be fair, if you by Zakuun seed markers mean the wa that only shows an icon of your raid marker, I can see why he would feel it was unnecessary since that is already shown above his head. The wa helps, but a lot of people manage to run to their markers without any wa assistance.

[TomatoBisque]

about your zakuum example. i gotta say, i too never played that boss with WA, as DBM and exorsus did well enough. WA also is way too clunky for me, playing with power auras since cata and doing just fine. plus wa destroys my character screen (wenn i press C and look at my stats, every tab only shows the first row). never needed wa before (raiding since ICC), why would i need it now? if it works, it's fine.

if a guild says 'hey, here's our wa' i do copy it, for the case, that something doesn't work. but i also tell them, that i never played with wa, that i hate it, but i will try it, if i fail without.

In 99% of cases no one cares what addons you do or don't use if you can do the mechanics

The problem here is that the player in question couldn't. If that response is verbatim or close to it I would kick him