Congress to Air Force: Build more F-22s! Also Faster Carriers.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

... and walls.

What I can't figure out is this:

If Trump can get Mexico to pay for the Wall...Why can't he get the terrorists to pay for the Jets?

[Skulltaker]

I'm not American so I don't really understand. Do the majority of US citizens usually agree with this sort of military spending when it could otherwise go into providing free health care or education or something?

Well, if you make your news media a circus and promote a constant fear over non-existing topics, at some point people tend to get nervous. Since I am a hopeless optimist I still think that the majority of people in the US isn't okay with theit gouvernment to spend billions on unused miliatary, while education, health care and infrastructure are in danger to be rivaled by the roman empire. Of course, the US gouvernment does what it did since it's inception: give a shit about their peoples opinion, unless an election is up.

[Sliske]

Putting government money into Healthcare and Education...but that would be dirty, evil, and filthy Socialism.

Yeah I mean its not like we know of a recently dismantled Socialist regime that put an extreme amount of money into its Military, to the point that it hurt the actual country.

I think it was called Nasty Germany or something? Not sure

But its only socialist and evil if we actually benefit from it, right?

[Dr Assbandit]

I'm not American so I don't really understand. Do the majority of US citizens usually agree with this sort of military spending when it could otherwise go into providing free health care or education or something?

When they slap on words like "patriotism" and "freedom" to blindside a lot of them then they eat it up. Also a good chunk of the conservative Republicans detest anything with the word "free" because they are brainwashed to believe that the person at the receiving end of the services you mentioned is a regressive left liberal who is a mooch on society when the facts and truth are way more complicated.

[Hooked]

The ones built in the 1970s (the first few Nimitzs) all retire over the next 14 years. The Nimitz itself is gone in 2024-2026.

When Carter was elected, the Nimitz program was paused while the country investigated building smaller carriers for a couple of years.

Reagan restarted Nimitz-class production his second month in office, that continue through 2006 with a total of 10 ships, so there is a small "age gap".

Point is, the first rounds Nimitiz will hit 50 years in the coming decade and have to be retired and replaced 1:1.

We need an aircraft carrier that's also a submarine or flys, actually both.

[Skulltaker]

What I can't figure out is this:

If Trump can get Mexico to pay for the Wall...Why can't he get the terrorists to pay for the Jets?

Trump couldn't get anyone to pay for anything if his life depended on it.

[Hooked]

What I can't figure out is this:

If Trump can get Mexico to pay for the Wall...Why can't he get the terrorists to pay for the Jets?

The terrorists will pay with their lives, then the terrorists family will pay for the jets.

[Skroe]

I'm not American so I don't really understand. Do the majority of US citizens usually agree with this sort of military spending when it could otherwise go into providing free health care or education or something?

Generally yes, but it's much more complicated than that. This is very up to date and worth the full read if you're interested.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1666/mili...l-defense.aspx



American think it is important to be top military dog.



Americans think the government spends too little (37%) or about right (27%). "Too much" is just 32% of respondents.


The relationship between "too little" and "too much" varies widely over time. This is a very interesting graph.



Generally speaking, defense spending enjoyed broad popular support in the US.

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Well, if you make your news media a circus and promote a constant fear over non-existing topics, at some point people tend to get nervous. Since I am a hopeless optimist I still think that the majority of people in the US isn't okay with theit gouvernment to spend billions on unused miliatary, while education, health care and infrastructure are in danger to be rivaled by the roman empire. Of course, the US gouvernment does what it did since it's inception: give a shit about their peoples opinion, unless an election is up.

Polls do not reflect this opinion you have.

[Berengil]

I mean, an overwhelming navy and air force is the best defense in modern warfare, but damn. How overwhelming do we have to be? The US Navy makes the Royal Navy's dominance at the height of its power look like a Boy Scout troop. It's good I suppose that such ridiculous power is in the hands of a representative republic and not some Putin-style facist sh-thole.

[Skroe]

I wonder whether there will be any outrage over this and the usual suspects from the "the governments is spending frivolously and handing out money to the destitute like Oprah!!!" will speak up.

Let's cut all social programs and heaven forbid you invest in infrastructure but boy oh boy do we sure need all those aircrafts for the war that's going on, oh wait.

Why would there be outrage? These types or programs enjoy popular support.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Americans think the government spends too little (37%) or about right (27%). "Too much" is just 32% of respondents.

Which, if you spin that the other way, means a majority of Americans would be against more military spending.

[Hooked]

I mean, an overwhelming navy and air force is the best defense in modern warfare, but damn. How overwhelming do we have to be? The US Navy makes the Royal Navy's dominance at the height of its power look like a Boy Scout troop. It's good I suppose that such ridiculous power is in the hands of a representative republic and not some Putin-style facist sh-thole.

You cant win a war without either a ground invasion or nukes.

[PACOX]

Putting government money into Healthcare and Education...but that would be dirty, evil, and filthy Socialism.

I mean look at what the GOP candidates are spouting. They are pretty much opposed to funding healthcare and education.

Military spending isn't an absolute evil, it just needs to be in check. Lots of good technology and research come from the military. Having a big military does prevent wars, which is hard to quantify since you're talking about stuff that didn't happen.

Yeah but country seems greatly opposed to Socialism.

[Skroe]

I mean, an overwhelming navy and air force is the best defense in modern warfare, but damn. How overwhelming do we have to be? The US Navy makes the Royal Navy's dominance at the height of its power look like a Boy Scout troop. It's good I suppose that such ridiculous power is in the hands of a representative republic and not some Putin-style facist sh-thole.

I think a lot of it is catch up from the Iraq War.

If the Iraq War had never happened, the Air Force would have built 400 F-22s, Carriers would have been at a 4 year build this entire time, and the "B-21" would have flown 4 years ago, when it was originally called the 2018 Bomber or Interim Bomber, circa 2004-2006.

All these things were paired back or dramatically delayed to pay for the Iraq War and buy stuff needed to fight the wars. The upgrade cycle was canceled. "Next Generation" systems like the DDG-1000, F-35 and Ford Class grew in size, complexity and cost, and so fell years behind schedule.

The US has been investing big into finally actually doing that upgrade cycle now that the $120 billion a year Iraq War budget was replaced "just" a $6 billion a year ISIS war budget. So it's looking in replacing the old with the new and buying stuff it otherwise would have bought 10 years ago.

[Berengil]

You cant win a war without either a ground invasion or nukes.

It depends on your definition of "war."

If you mean conquer and occupy a large landmass, then you're right. Or in the case of nukes, make that landmass uninhabitable and irrelevant.

A top-notch navy and air force can eliminate a threat before it gets anywhere near you.

[Skulltaker]

Yeah I mean its not like we know of a recently dismantled Socialist regime that put an extreme amount of money into its Military, to the point that it hurt the actual country.

I think it was called Nasty Germany or something? Not sure

But its only socialist and evil if we actually benefit from it, right?

Ahm... Just because it says Nationalsozialismus on the label does not mean it's a socialist system. You could have said Soviet Union, you know.

[Skroe]

F-22 is defunct

If the F-22 was to re-enter production it would be a modernized version of it with F-35 technology. It would be in effect, F-22B rather than the existing F-22A. The Air Force would probably want to build way more than 194 so to send the existing F-22A to the national guard / reserves or retire them outright, to save costs and have one fleet.

This shouldn't be at all surprising. There are many differences between the F-15A, F-15C and F-15E, and the F-16A, F-16C and F-16E. And the hypothetical scenario I described with the F-22A in a world where the F-22B exists is exactly what happened to the F-15A once the F-15C showed up.

[shise]

They admit that F-35 is a flying pile of dog shit. Why are you trying to spin that as a positive thing?

The F 35 is easily the best fighter ever created, the problem is not the plane, the problem is the operator.

A human being simply struggles with it´s strong G F´s

[Hooked]

The F 35 is easily the best fighter ever created, the problem is not the plane, the problem is the operator.

A human being simply struggles with it´s strong G F´s

The problem is they agreed to do a stupid vtol version. The f-35 shouldn't be vtol, just build a vtol that is optimized for that.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Infrastructure is paid for mostly by local and state tax dollars, which spend nothing on defense.

Federal Infrastructure spending is the "cherry on top", but still amounts to tens of billions per year.

Don't believe me? Check here: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/numbers

Transportation: $92 Billion in Fed money, $110.5 Billion in State Money, $156.6B in Local Money, total is $297.2 Billion


You want your roads and bridges fixed? Go to your State House and yell at your State Representatives / Governor.

This is always a great way to dodge the issue. You say "That's state...this is Federal"...but as you've just shown...the federal government already kicks in for some of that transportation budget...so there's really no reason why they couldn't kick in just a little bit more.

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The F 35 is easily the best fighter ever created, the problem is not the plane, the problem is the operator.

A human being simply struggles with it´s strong G F´s

A plane should be designed for the operator...since it's much more difficult to design the operator for the plane.