So I got my first mythic ilv drop in the legion alpha

[Deleted]

I got some 880 "titanforged" bracers today from a crappy normal dungeon quest rewarding "805+" loot.

[Deleted]

I got some 880 "titanforged" bracers today from a crappy normal dungeon quest rewarding "805+" loot.

Dont worry. Uncle Hazzikostas is going to listen to the "worried" organized raiders, that they actually have to share their loot with mortals.

[Redroniksre]

World content is fine, but it doesn't need to give out mythic gear.

If the difficulty warrants it, then yes it does. A mythic raider shouldn't be better at every other piece of content then anyone else, even then the guy who is pushing Grifts and world content.

[RoKPaNda]

I'm fine with this. Organized raiding loot should be purely cosmetic, and gear with stats should come from dungeons / world bosses / etc.

[thunterman]

That model of progression used to work, back then. Now things have changed in gaming as a whole and the majority of WoW players prefer World Content rather than PvP or Raiding. The choice comes down to either Blizzard can begin to add more content, more difficulty and more reward to the content that players overwhelmingly -do- want to play, OR stick with the old method, and limit rewards for the majority, causing them to leave earlier due to lack of content/boredom, but at least the PvPers and Raiders would be happy, not for long as sub plummet more.

I used to be okay with not raiding, and even now i still do occasionally raid, but it is not for everyone and if the game wants to survive in the coming era in the games industry it has to adapt.

My problem isn't with gaining decent gear from world content in general, my problem is the mythic tag applied to it. Players A is full mythic, player B is full mythic, Player A completed a Mythic raid, player B didn't - where do we differentiate here? We don't, it's the same. It has always been possible to deck yourself out in epic gear since TBC. you get it in dungeons, world bosses e.t.c My problem is that the gear is the exact same as the gear from mythic raids, but your not comleting MYTHIC raids. If they wanna hand out gear to people, remove the Mythic tag and I'd be happy.

You're assuming people have to make a choice in what path they follow. High end players that only stick to their "path" are a minority of a minority. Casual content isn't a separate path and it isn't even designed at casuals. It's just accessible, to everyone. It has very little to no requirements to get started.

Casuals are just as likely to get all the cool stuff obtainable from high end PvE without participating in it as you are to get all the "casual" cool stuff without doing it. We're talking about very rare upgrades to rewards from quests that are already rare themselves.

The actual cool and rare "casual" stuff isn't even designed for casuals at all. They either require excessive camping (with realm hopping), or they require lengthy grinds and good RNG. Someone that's camping for the time-lost drake for weeks isn't a casual. Someone who farms for rare raid mounts from old expansions every week on multiple characters isn't a casual.

I imagine allot of players have to choose a path. I for example, have a full time job, a young son. I work on the mornings/afternoon, parent in the evening and play at night. I raid for 3 hours on a night, 3 days a week, I sit and watch a movie with my fiancee most of the other nights. I wake up in the morning and have an hour to play and drink a coffee. Outside of raiding, I literally have a few hours of playtime. this is most likely the case for allot of raiders. Most people have jobs and families. This is why I'm so supportive of the game becoming so accessible, it helps me get more out of the game on my limited playtime. What I don't support is handouts for minimal effort. If you don't have the time to commit to your respective path.

PvP gear has been made all but redundant, Raiding loot has been made all but redundant, yet, in order to get those mounts that are exclusive to people that have time to grind world content for 10 hours a day I have to magically find the time. The system is flipping to become the polar opposite of what it was. I agree there should be better rewards from world content, but handing out shortcuts into hardcore raiding and PvP is no the answer.

There should be 3 tiers of gear, PvP, Raid gear and world (call them what you like) They should all have stats and Ilvl's tuned to the content they are rewarded from. Each of these gear sets should be exclusive to dedicated players of the respective 'path' The world content gear could be in tiers, with bonuses such as "increase damage in open world environments by X%" this could be tuned so that world content players surpass mythic raiders in world content. People that do world content should not be able to surpass raiders, and that is what I fear will happen. That would be totally fair, I got my awesome mythic gear, I hardly do world content, it's only right that the gear you've earned by doing this content is better than mine IN THIS CONTENT.

Raiding is my favorite part of the game, so I choose to focus the time I have on it, but I really like PvP, thing is - I can't dedicate the time to it, I got a rogue decked in honor gear, and I manage to get 1 piece of conquest gear a month... I get squashed by everyone simply because their gear is better than mine. Am I mad? No, because they put more time and effort into it than me, that's my choice.

See, that's what I don't agree with. There should be three equally rewarding paths for all kinds of players (although there is no "casual" path, world content is PVE just like raiding). We're just coming out of an expansion where the only rewarding path is raiding, and it's clear now that that cannot sustain the game long term. Cata and MoP spiked at launch, but had significantly better player retention due to having rewarding things outside of the raids. PVE includes world content, although I admit I'd delight in the irony of having "Raiding" and "World Content" gear that fuctions sub-optimally in the other branch of PVE. (It wouldn't be worth dealing with the raider tears, though.)

And as far as jumping into the raids... Well, I guess I'm unusual in that despite being young my hands (as well as the rest of my body) are riddled with arthritis. I've tried jumping into raids, and all I will ever do is hold other people back. That doesn't mean I don't put the effort into doing things "properly"-- I've managed to push my "main" up into mythic dungeons-- but I will always be a liability in normal raiding or higher because my twitch response isn't want it is ten years ago. No matter how hard I practice I am never gonna overcome the fact that my fingers don't bend properly.

Obviously not everyone has a crippling disability like I do. Some people can't just put their kids to bed before raid time (I don't know how old your son is, but don't bet on being able to do that forever). Some people are working hours that mean they can only get a few hours here and there to work on things. All I want is the ability to work towards things that don't involve me struggling to keep up in normal raids and feeling awful because i can't pull enough dps to justify my being there. And gear is something I want to work towards, because it is a big component in my ability to do older content like mount and transmog collecting and/or soloing old raids.

It was different in MoP when lfr had mechanics that actually mattered to a degree and rewards that matched that effort. I carried most groups I was in in MoP lfr, and it might've been a shitty difficulty but it actually filled my needs. WoD lfr is so brainless and shitty that I didn't even bother starting on the legendary ring quest until like... three months ago?



Yeah, pretty much how I feel about it.



Didn't see this when I was writing the rest of my post, but I do agree.

This is where it's tricky, because with your situation, I feel sympathy. A physical limitation shouldn't hold you back in a game - I still don't think you should get mythic raid loot though - but on he subject, have you tried using the addon that allows you to play with a Xbox controller? I know people that have benefited from doing so. You should give it a try.

I think sub grouped gear (pvp, world, raid) would work. Raids require higher item-level gear to complete, that's the sole reason the gear is better from raids. If you commit to world content, you gear is far superior to PvP'ers for example in PvE. raiders being much higher again, but there's a whole heap of challenge and content raiders have to go through, we also pretty much have to do the world content for the start of a tier to get the best start in an expansion.

I appreciate that it's frustrating for people who don't raid to misout on the gear, but I genuinely believe that having it any other way would just make the system even more unjust.

LFR is a whole other debate to be had, but in short - I agree, making it brainless had a negative impact on normal. People did LFR and thought "oh, normal can't be much harder" the wipes ensued. You should have to know and do the mechanics correctly regardless of difficulty, that will actually help people progress though the difficulties. Obviously LFR needs to be easy to some extent, but when you can just completely negate mechanics that would insta kill you even on normal, it's gone beyond easy.

I share the same problem with lack of playtime, I get say, approx 12 hours a week playtime, 9 of which I choose to spend raiding. I expect I will never get full conquest gear on my rogue, I accept I probably won't get 11 level 100's, I accept that I have literally 0 rare mounts. I loved the wind serpents, guess when I unlocked them? 4 months into WoD. That's how little time I have.

[Redroniksre]

My problem isn't with gaining decent gear from world content in general, my problem is the mythic tag applied to it. Players A is full mythic, player B is full mythic, Player A completed a Mythic raid, player B didn't - where do we differentiate here? We don't, it's the same. It has always been possible to deck yourself out in epic gear since TBC. you get it in dungeons, world bosses e.t.c My problem is that the gear is the exact same as the gear from mythic raids, but your not comleting MYTHIC raids. If they wanna hand out gear to people, remove the Mythic tag and I'd be happy.

I think that is fine, though i don't know how much it matters in the end, especially if something from the open world ends up being BiS for a raider, then you will just have a mix of tags regardless.

[thunterman]

I think that is fine, though i don't know how much it matters in the end, especially if something from the open world ends up being BiS for a raider, then you will just have a mix of tags regardless.

That's why the ilvl is higher, it ensured that raiders don't have to go around grinding other content to stay relevant, that's one of the reasons for the Ilvl gap existing in the first place. If you are clearing mythic raids, it just seems really wrong for me, to imagine farming a world boss (that in comparison is 'easy') for BiS loot.

Something i Mentioned in an above post, give world content it's own tier system, that gives %'ge damage increases. make it relatively time consuming to obtain (so that the majority of raiders won't just simply have it too - keep it exclusive to the players the primarily do world content) and tune it so that, although not Mythic raiding gear, it still outperforms mythic raiding gear in world content. Just like the gear obtained in Mythic raids should be better in raids than what is obtained outside of them.

That would be a system that should make everyone happy. They will have the best equipment for their 'path' The homogenization of PvP has left me with literally no desire to even bother, if they do the same to raids, there will be no purpose for me to even play then. they might aswell remove gear altogether.

The removal of baseline features (homogenization of gear, removal of reforge, RNG gem slots e.t.c) give a pretty big sense of the game actually shrinking to me. The more it's simplified, the less substance there is. You could have all the content in the world, but if there's no meaningful reward or advantage for doing it, you mayaswell not bother. WoW is going to end up being Club penguin if this trend continues.

[Mechonics]

If everyone watched this video, and understood exactly what the intentions of raiding and organized end game content was actually originally intended for then they would understand why everyone that has raided and still does, doesn't think that people who do not raid should have the same gear.

It's quite simple, this was raiding when the game came out, and for the most part has been that way ever since.



Now, I've said it before in this thread - I don't really care if poeple get good gear from world quests or bosses or w/e the fuck. But you shouldn't get those items once a week, from 5 different sources....it should take an equivalent amount of time to get 1 piece of "heroic quality" raid gear out in the world (questing/world bosses) as it does for someone to gear up in the same quality heroic raid, including wipes and resets - etc. AKA Months.

The best thing is that people want raid quality gear, but ask them to put the time and effort into acquiring that piece and all of a sudden there's too many barriers to entry.

[Ham on Rye]

I'm.. actually very happy with that. Raid level World Mobs giving that type of loot. I can fucks with that.

Yay for not having to progress purely through raiding.

Non-raiders don't need mythic raid gear to "progress" you just need something better than blues.

[Jaransan]

Has it occurred to anyone that as yet unexplained method of setting yourself on track for a specific one of the MANY legendaries we know are coming this xpac is going to be the thing they use as a LONG TERM gear time sink? So that anyone with sufficient dedication can get decently geared but that it takes a DISGUSTING amount of luck or time spent to progress and get the legendary piece your looking for? stats are cute but some of the effects on the legendaries are strong enough to comprise the difference between a player with and a player without a set bonus. PLUS those legendaries drop at varying ilvls, you could get lucky and get one just right for raiding with, or get one that has an ilvl for whatever level you are at that moment. More likely youll get it for your ilvl and have to do some tedious bullshit to get it polished up for high end content.

I was under the impression that that was what they were going for with this. Make high end NUMBERS more easily accesible but keep high end EFFECTS at the 'give up on having a life outside of wow' end of the grinding spectrum.

[Lutris]

This is where it's tricky, because with your situation, I feel sympathy. A physical limitation shouldn't hold you back in a game - I still don't think you should get mythic raid loot though - but on he subject, have you tried using the addon that allows you to play with a Xbox controller? I know people that have benefited from doing so. You should give it a try.

I think sub grouped gear (pvp, world, raid) would work. Raids require higher item-level gear to complete, that's the sole reason the gear is better from raids. If you commit to world content, you gear is far superior to PvP'ers for example in PvE. raiders being much higher again, but there's a whole heap of challenge and content raiders have to go through, we also pretty much have to do the world content for the start of a tier to get the best start in an expansion.

I appreciate that it's frustrating for people who don't raid to misout on the gear, but I genuinely believe that having it any other way would just make the system even more unjust.

LFR is a whole other debate to be had, but in short - I agree, making it brainless had a negative impact on normal. People did LFR and thought "oh, normal can't be much harder" the wipes ensued. You should have to know and do the mechanics correctly regardless of difficulty, that will actually help people progress though the difficulties. Obviously LFR needs to be easy to some extent, but when you can just completely negate mechanics that would insta kill you even on normal, it's gone beyond easy.

I share the same problem with lack of playtime, I get say, approx 12 hours a week playtime, 9 of which I choose to spend raiding. I expect I will never get full conquest gear on my rogue, I accept I probably won't get 11 level 100's, I accept that I have literally 0 rare mounts. I loved the wind serpents, guess when I unlocked them? 4 months into WoD. That's how little time I have.

Unfortunately a controller would put too much stress on my thumbs. Keyboards are best for me because all of my fingers share the work of pressing buttons.

But yeah I'm not saying that we should take rewards away from raiding. All I really want is the ability to work for/towards equivalent gear for the things I enjoy doing. If that means making [World Content] gear separate from [Raiding] gear then I'm all for it. I just don't see the raiding population being okay with having gear that functions sub optimally in world content (i.e., pandaria dailies and valor/rep for epics, lfr having rewards at all). And when it comes to raiders vs non-raiders, the raiders always get what they want.

It wasn't just normal that was affected by lfr being neutered. The majority of players don't raid normal+ (I think mmo-c's data shows about 20% raid that difficulty or higher?) and having what is the main endgame for a large portion of the casual playerbase gutted the way it was meant that those casuals didn't have a reason to keep playing. They had to reintroduce valor to get people to play it, and that's a pretty clear sign their approach in wod was flawed.

Now, I've said it before in this thread - I don't really care if poeple get good gear from world quests or bosses or w/e the fuck. But you shouldn't get those items once a week, from 5 different sources....it should take an equivalent amount of time to get 1 piece of "heroic quality" raid gear out in the world (questing/world bosses) as it does for someone to gear up in the same quality heroic raid, including wipes and resets - etc. AKA Months.

The best thing is that people want raid quality gear, but ask them to put the time and effort into acquiring that piece and all of a sudden there's too many barriers to entry.

I don't think a mythic-level piece of gear should be acquired that easily, either. Once a month or so would be a decent investment of time and effort for one piece of gear. People need to have things to work for or they will inevitably quit.

There's a difference between putting effort into earning something and being forced into punishingly long/boring grinds, though.

[Raiju]

Non-raiders don't need mythic raid gear to "progress" you just need something better than blues.

Mythic+ negates this argument.

[Bigbazz]

If the difficulty warrants it, then yes it does. A mythic raider shouldn't be better at every other piece of content then anyone else, even then the guy who is pushing Grifts and world content.

If the difficulty warrants it? Isn't that the problem here. Mythic gives the best loot because it's the hardest content, requires the most organisation. You could say Challenge Modes are comparable to Mythic raiding, but they only require 5 people which makes them considerably easier in that aspect. If the world content was comparable difficulty to Mythic raiding then the majority of the target audience for world content would not be good enough to beat it.

It's an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online), organised group content provides the hardest challenge and should provide the best gear.. If it's a large group challenge you can beat without organisation then it's not challenging and thus the difficulty is not warranting the best loot.

[Redroniksre]

If the difficulty warrants it? Isn't that the problem here. Mythic gives the best loot because it's the hardest content, requires the most organisation. You could say Challenge Modes are comparable to Mythic raiding, but they only require 5 people which makes them considerably easier in that aspect. If the world content was comparable difficulty to Mythic raiding then the majority of the target audience for world content would not be good enough to beat it.

It's an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online), organised group content provides the hardest challenge and should provide the best gear.. If it's a large group challenge you can beat without organisation then it's not challenging and thus the difficulty is not warranting the best loot.

So what it sounds like your saying is the organization is the key, which means the Raid leader should be the one getting the better loot, not the average raider who does nothing but show up on time for raids, correct? Or is that not the same type of organization?

[Bigbazz]

So what it sounds like your saying is the organization is the key, which means the Raid leader should be the one getting the better loot, not the average raider who does nothing but show up on time for raids, correct? Or is that not the same type of organization?

Somebody has a chip on their shoulder that is making it difficult for them to discuss a topic.

[thunterman]

Made a topic on the official forums regarding this : For gods sake keep it civil, I want a response not a locked thread!
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...61433?page=1#0