Russian attack aircraft just flew within 30 feet of a U.S. Navy ship

[Slant]

It just shows, along with Putin's secret funerals of the few thousand Russian troops that died in Ukraine and intimidation of their families, the utter contempt he and his clique holds for the people he actually rules.

That's exactly the point. I mean, who tells his pilot to just go and fuck NATO off a little? What kind of orders were those pilots given? And what orders did the guys give those russian pilots buzzing that navy ship? Either they're absolutely irresponsible and undisciplined pilots, as you speculated, or their superior officers are total wankers themselves.

[Skroe]

although the tears of Ultima and Djail would be delicious if we did.

Eventually Putin is going to be eating a big ol serving of humble pie. Gonna be awesome when he does.

Yeah. That's how these things always end. He'll eventually go one step too far and get burned very badly.

In a sense that already happened in Turkey. Best thing I ever ready about that episode is that Putin, like most Russian leaders, views NATO as a monolithic entity that acts at the whim of the US (because that's exactly how Russia would rule it's own NATO). He didn't consider that different countries have different military cultures, defense postures, politics and nuances. To him, poking Turkey was like poking the US or the UK - he probably expected a salute, an escort out of the area, followed by an official protest. He never figured that maybe Erdogan's military handles things some differently than Obama's or Cameron's, particularly since Turkey has been shooting down Syrian border violators for years now.

And as it turns out, Turkey is not, in fact, Denmark.

But this is what got Putin sent to East Germany in the first place, according to his biography. There is a mystique about Putin, former KGB agent. But really, in the 1980s, East Germany was considered a backwater by the KGB, who sent its best people to Afghanistan and the Middle East. He was regarded by his superiors as not a particularly bright man who was the worst kind of gambler - the kind that thought that because some risks paid off, he wouldn't lose. Him going to East Germany was his superiors burying the career of an unpromising mid-level agent that wasn't going to be advanced to a leadership role.


Putin really hasn't changed a bit in 30 years.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...949b07fba859d3

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/a...ectid=11494711

That moment led me to other conversations, over a matter of months, with U.S. and European intelligence operatives who had studied the Russian president's 17-year KGB career. They too traced a portrait of Putin as a failed spy who was being squeezed out of the KGB when the Soviet system collapsed and political connections suddenly offered him a route to power.

"He was seen in the system as a risk-taker who had little understanding of the consequences of failure," one said. "The KGB of that era was not keen on risk."

That analysis of Putin, rather than one of him as a master spy, fits more closely with what he has done as Kremlin boss. Putin today displays an open contempt for Russian public opinions and an uncaring disregard for the economy-damaging sanctions and international disapproval that his Ukraine adventure has provoked, traits that befit a drunken gambler.

When I pressed for details on Putin's time as a spy, I was pointed to the fact that he was given a backwater assignment in Dresden rather than in the East German capital in 1985, and then was sent to do counterespionage in Leningrad rather than Moscow at the end of that tour.

"It was a message that he should seek another career," said one of the operatives, all of whom insisted on anonymity and discretion about where and when our conversations took place.

- - - Updated - - -

That's exactly the point. I mean, who tells his pilot to just go and fuck NATO off a little? What kind of orders were those pilots given? And what orders did the guys give those russian pilots buzzing that navy ship? Either they're absolutely irresponsible and undisciplined pilots, as you speculated, or their superior officers are total wankers themselves.

It's probably all the above to be frank.

Putin's regime absolutely holds little regard for the Russian Military's rank and file, or every day Russians.

The Russian military (and the Soviet Military), though relying on conscripts even up to the present day, was at one time, highly professional. Even during the high Cold War, one thing that kept the peace is the professional links between the moderate elements of the US and Soviet militaries (both countries had leaders who wanted to annhilate the other side of course). The global game of poking each other around the world for thirty years after the Cuban Missile Crisis, even "detente", which hardly put the pause on anything, reflects a kind of superpower consensus that the game they play will have broundries.

The Russian military has been transformed over the last ten years into something highly political though, much like China. Advancement comes through political patronage and is often accompanied by wealth. Senior leaders are moved out to run state-owned companies, which have retreated back from privatization since 2002.

And within the Russian service, we forget, that these troops there have little idea what they're doing. Russia has committed itself to a professional force. To say it's been delayed in that is being generious. It's years and years behind schedule. It might actually never happen. It's still staffed with hundreds of thousands of conscripts on one year rotations - by contrast the US Marines corps has 12 weeks Basic Training, followed by Infantry or Combat Training, followed by MOS Training for certain specialties. It could be a year before you're even settled in your job. Advanced Individual Training for the US Army lasts 84 weeks (1 year, 8 months).

Russia's air force has a pitiful readiness rate... around 25% for most major combat aircraft and bombers, which means Russian pilots flying hours are low. Currently it is about 20-100 hours per year for tactical aviation pilots. By contrast USAF tactical aviation pilots fly about 250-400 hours per year. Helicopter and Transport pilots will do even more.

Compared to Western Military forces, the top is filled with an uncaring despot and corruption, and the middle and lower is filled with kids who don't know what the fuck they're doing.

[Berengil]

So Skroe, it would be safe to say Russia is a paper tiger, ready for a stiff wind to blow it away?

The only thing that concerns me is that such a regime in possession of nukes is a shtstorm waiting to happen.

[Cybran]

He pokes the US because he knows the US is restraint enough not to break his jaw.

Like you broke the jaw of that guy the mods perma-banned? Talk is cheap.

So Skroe, it would be safe to say Russia is a paper tiger, ready for a stiff wind to blow it away?

According to him everyone who isn't USA is in permanent decline and a paper tiger.

- Crimea went to Russia
- China is building nuclear plants on their artificial islands
- Iran is testing ballistic missles


All paper tigers. USA! USA! USA!

[Theinquisition]

Like you broke the jaw of that guy the mods perma-banned? Talk is cheap.



According to him everyone who isn't USA is in permanent decline and a paper tiger.

- Crimea went to Russia
- China is building nuclear plants on their artificial islands
- Iran is testing ballistic missles


All paper tigers. USA! USA! USA!

OH Cryban, what will you say next!!

Please point out where he is mistaken.

[I Push Buttons]

You can guarantee can you? I'll hold my breath while your bow'er-in-chief "responds"

Sorry we don't live in the United Soviet Putin Republic like you do friend, our military doesn't sit around with its thumb up its ass waiting for supreme leader Putin to give orders on what to do while under attack like your military does.

We could probably invade Russia right this second and nothing would happen for quite a while, Putin would probably be busy siphoning some more tax payer money into another off shore account or building himself another mansion, and unless immortal god emperor Putin is there to sign off on it, your military would probably just chill while we conquered our way across the country.

[Slant]

Like you broke the jaw of that guy the mods perma-banned? Talk is cheap.



According to him everyone who isn't USA is in permanent decline and a paper tiger.

- Crimea went to Russia
- China is building nuclear plants on their artificial islands
- Iran is testing ballistic missles


All paper tigers. USA! USA! USA!

Are you blaming Skroe for some permaban now? You're weird.

Also, Skroe doesn't talk shit about Europe, so.... you're wrong. He's also not talking shit about Brazil! And... I have no fucking idea what your bullet points are meant to prove.

[Kellhound]

Are you blaming Skroe for some permaban now? You're weird.

Also, Skroe doesn't talk shit about Europe, so.... you're wrong. He's also not talking shit about Brazil! And... I have no fucking idea what your bullet points are meant to prove.

His points are:
Russia was able to steal land that it already had significant troops in from a country that had no defense.
China can build nuclear reactors (1950s technology).
Iran can build ballistic missiles (1940s tech).

[McDeloud]

Sorry we don't live in the United Soviet Putin Republic like you do friend, our military doesn't sit around with its thumb up its ass waiting for supreme leader Putin to give orders on what to do while under attack like your military does.

We could probably invade Russia right this second and nothing would happen for quite a while, Putin would probably be busy siphoning some more tax payer money into another off shore account or building himself another mansion, and unless immortal god emperor Putin is there to sign off on it, your military would probably just chill while we conquered our way across the country.

Haha, nice one. But frankly... your "1337" military will bite the dust, and you know it. Russia is not Iraq or Afganastáin.
But the joke about emperor Putin was really good.

UPD. Seems like brave Americans licking each other ar$e in the threads like this "Russia - doom & gloom, America - power & superiority". Just pathetic. *sniff*

[Ausr]

Haha, nice one. But frankly... your "1337" military will bite the dust, and you know it. Russia is not Iraq or Afganastáin.
But the joke about emperor Putin was really good.

UPD. Seems like brave Americans licking each other ar$e in the threads like this "Russia - doom & gloom, America - power & superiority". Just pathetic. *sniff*

Your counter argument was full of factual information and very smart reasons. Clearly you should post more.

[Skroe]

Are you blaming Skroe for some permaban now? You're weird.

Also, Skroe doesn't talk shit about Europe, so.... you're wrong. He's also not talking shit about Brazil! And... I have no fucking idea what your bullet points are meant to prove.

Indeed. Go read the F-22 thread.

I *love* Europe.

I'll say it again. The European Union is the single most important thing to happen in the world (politically anyway) in at least a century. Probably longer.

[McDeloud]

Your counter argument was full of factual information and very smart reasons. Clearly you should post more.

Oh, one more from the Team "power & superiority" with "smart" /s remark. Clearly you should lick more.

[Skroe]

So Skroe, it would be safe to say Russia is a paper tiger, ready for a stiff wind to blow it away?

The only thing that concerns me is that such a regime in possession of nukes is a shtstorm waiting to happen.

Paper tiger? Not at all. Russia could cause tremendous damage with what it has.

But there is a big difference between causing tremendous damage and winning. And there is a world of difference between Russia puting on shows (like "strafing the Cook") and displaying "modernized" show pieces (like T-50, Armata, the two 400km S400 missiles they have ignoring the entire fleet of 60-90km they have) and what the US (and others) do.

The danger from Russia is that it does something so outrageous it leads to a series of events that quickly fall out of it's ability to control. For example, if Putin decides to do something Ukraine-like in Estonia, he could do that thinking the US would let it happen because it would decide the risk isn't worth a few million Estonia. He is sorely mistaken. At stake would be the entire principle and credibility of collective defense, which is the foundation of US Global Strategy. There is no telling what the US would do.

During the Cold War, after the Cuban Missile Crisis, the US and USSR were very good at avoiding putting each other in these credibility-testing situations. That was intentional. The Soviet Sphere stopped actively expanding (for the most part) and hostiles got knocked down a level (and largely out of Europe).

The US Military is as professional as ever. Russia's is highly political (Putin-regime patronage). And very inexperienced. Putin, or any Russian leader being a wildcard is one thing. But Putin's life long history of being a terrible gambler is something quite different. If he doesn't tread carefully, he could unleash a series of events that will lead to a lot of dead Russians, a lot of dead Eastern Europeans and probably not that many dead Americans.

Any lunatic with a gun in a city center can cause damage. Insofar as the global commons at the moment, that's Russia right now. The local police department (NATO) has to treat it seriously as a threat to public safety, even though it's not going to be able to hurt very many cops. But like this scenario, NATO hoplessly overmatches Russia.

But let's just keep in mind... Crimea, Eastern Ukraine, Assad's part of Syria.... these are low hanging fruit for Russia, especially in the quickly ending Age of Obama.

[Marcellus1986]

Haha, nice one. But frankly... your "1337" military will bite the dust, and you know it. Russia is not Iraq or Afganastáin.
But the joke about emperor Putin was really good.

UPD. Seems like brave Americans licking each other ar$e in the threads like this "Russia - doom & gloom, America - power & superiority". Just pathetic. *sniff*

Cool another Kremlin troll. Call me when Russia joins the rest of the 21st century militaries in the west.

[Ausr]

Oh, one more from the Team "power & superiority" with "smart" /s remark. Clearly you should lick more.

I will, thanks.

[McDeloud]

The danger from Russia is that it does something so outrageous it leads to a series of events that quickly fall out of it's ability to control. For example, if Putin decides to do something Ukraine-like in Estonia, he could do that thinking the US would let it happen because it would decide the risk isn't worth a few million Estonia. He is sorely mistaken. At stake would be the entire principle and credibility of collective defense, which is the foundation of US Global Strategy. There is no telling what the US would do.

You should provoke an incident with great loss on the russian border (neutral waters...whatever). The media will spin this shit up to the skies. America will strike (mighty first strike and so on), Russia will strike back (weaklings, they don't have a powerful stuff & poor economy & lazy/untrained/old/rusty etc.). In other words you have to beat the crap out of each other. I'm sure the World would be a much better place without Russia... *and America*.

[Marcellus1986]

You should provoke an incident with great loss on the russian border (neutral waters...whatever). The media will spin this shit up to the skies. America will strike (mighty first strike and so on), Russia will strike back (weaklings, they don't have a powerful stuff & poor economy & lazy/untrained/old/rusty etc.). In other words you have to beat the crap out of each other. I'm sure the World would be a much better place without Russia... *and America*.

Without Russia? Sure.

Without America? The world economy would crumble.

[McDeloud]

Without Russia? Sure.

Without America? The world economy would crumble.

I bet it will be stabilized in 3-5 years. China can easily replace America in the long run.
The only things i will miss: UFC and The Walking Dead (Series).

- - - Updated - - -

Cool another Kremlin troll.

Haha, you so accurately defined who I am actually! So... where I can get the money for my dirty Putinistá work?

[Kasierith]

You should provoke an incident with great loss on the russian border (neutral waters...whatever). The media will spin this shit up to the skies. America will strike (mighty first strike and so on), Russia will strike back (weaklings, they don't have a powerful stuff & poor economy & lazy/untrained/old/rusty etc.). In other words you have to beat the crap out of each other. I'm sure the World would be a much better place without Russia... *and America*.

There's really no situation in which the Russian military would come out even, much less winning, against the US military. Russia's military setup is highly invested in specialists and mass producing low quality grunts. Which is fine in an old style conventional war.. but because US technology has several decades of progress on Russia's, air superiority is pretty firmly established, and air superiority is at the center of modern warfare. Well armed well trained paratroopers really don't mean anything if they're shot out of the sky, or get bombed as soon as they land.

[Kellhound]

Guys, dont feed the troll.