The "idiot" scientists

[Deleted]

The "complex" terms are simply more specific and accurate. They're not in popular use because popular language tends to find shortcuts and such, which is the enemy of accuracy and specificity. You wouldn't try and build a rocket by saying "eh, that part should be something like 5 finger lengths long", because that's not nearly accurate enough. Same difference.

If the high-end stuff is too complex for you to grasp, it's because you haven't learned enough of the basics. It's like trying to argue that calculus is arcane and mystic lies, just because you've never learned anything beyond basic addition. It isn't; calculus is entirely rational, you're simply describing how you, personally, don't understand it.

You are absolutely right! Those things are a must when building said thing. But think of it this way. Say a person who hasnt a clue about chemistry or math observes an explosion. He or she goes to bed and has a dream, then wakes up and says guess what. We can launch a rocket by lighting up some gas or whatever. It would never work without the precise math. But it doesnt mean the idea isnt valid. Its kinda the same how a non scientist would come with the idea to move faster than light by warping space, even know they cant put it into math or the holodeck or hoverboards. Some of them wont work but some will.

[Deleted]

People use complicated language on purpose to make things less accessible for most people and to form a sort of elite.

[Deleted]

It really sounds like you want to take the scientific method out of science. Which is...weird.

No I dont, its about most people instantly dismissing the ideas as stupid when they arent put into formulas and math.

[Zdrasti]

SEEE!! Actually I dont know. But this is what I meant. Just human errors, obscurity. Our brains arent designed to be very mathy I think but errors and not using the big words doesnt mean youre automatically completely wrong, does it?

The point of all these things is to be precise about what we're talking about. You just fucked up two broad concepts. Think about how much time you waste trying to communicate to someone what you mean. Well with these precise formulas, we do a much better job of capturing exactly what we mean so others can assess the validity of our statements without needing to go back and forth endlessly about what we meant.

[Ghâzh]

You are absolutely right! Those things are a must when building said thing. But think of it this way. Say a person who hasnt a clue about chemistry or math observes an explosion. He or she goes to bed and has a dream,

So we've come to the point of making scientific discoveries from dreams? Yeah I'm out of here.

[Crissi]

No I dont, its about most people instantly dismissing the ideas as stupid when they arent put into formulas and math.

Well if they can't explain how it happened, then it's just a hypothesis and should be treated as such.

[Hexian]

The same logic in this thread brought us the Anti-Vax movement....just sayin.

[Deleted]

The point of all these things is to be precise about what we're talking about. You just fucked up two broad concepts. Think about how much time you waste trying to communicate to someone what you mean. Well with these precise formulas, we do a much better job of capturing exactly what we mean so others can assess the validity of our statements without needing to go back and forth endlessly about what we meant.

Those formulas are a double edged sword however. First they exclude everyone who isnt fluid in them. And second, math isnt exactly an absolute truth. Just take a gander at quantum mechanics. A lot of math that works with macroscopic objects doesnt really apply there. So again why dismiss the ideas that go against it? Or cant be formulated using current math. Dogma, even scientific dogma is bad for progress.

[Ghâzh]

Those formulas are a double edged sword however. First they exclude everyone who isnt fluid in them. And second, math isnt exactly an absolute truth. Just take a gander at quantum mechanics. A lot of math that works with macroscopic objects doesnt really apply there. So again why dismiss the ideas that go against it? Or cant be formulated using current math. Dogma, even scientific dogma is bad for progress.

Wrong. Math works with everything. It's the theories of our understanding about the physics of larger objects that do not work.

[Deleted]

Well if they can't explain how it happened, then it's just a hypothesis and should be treated as such.

Not always. You know that! Just imagine something thats very mundane. Say jumping in a puddle. Can you do the math how every water particle reacts? Probably not. Are you wrong when you say that your legs will get wet and the area surrounding the puddle will see some "rain" as well? Those things arent mutually exclusive.

[Deleted]

No I dont, its about most people instantly dismissing the ideas as stupid when they arent put into formulas and math.

How do you filter people who talk garbage out from those who do actually have valid ideas?
Theres also the problem of missing some things in your earlier example. It would cost a fuckload if you tested all the gas for the rocket which may has to be built differently. So you use formulas to solve that problem.
The other thing is you Rocketidea was (obviously) done before, so now you have to filter out people who said something which was either done already or is just not put into practice because reasons (cost,just doesn't work that way etc.)
Imagine you would need to pay attention to everone on the Internet. Youd never get anything done!

[Ghâzh]

Not always. You know that! Just imagine something thats very mundane. Say jumping in a puddle. Can you do the math how every water particle reacts? Probably not. Are you wrong when you say that your legs will get wet and the area surrounding the puddle will see some "rain" as well? Those things arent mutually exclusive.

You are free to express your concern that my feet will get wet when I walk in to a puddle. No one's stopping you. Now do you feel proud for your contribution to science?

[Endus]

You are absolutely right! Those things are a must when building said thing. But think of it this way. Say a person who hasnt a clue about chemistry or math observes an explosion. He or she goes to bed and has a dream, then wakes up and says guess what. We can launch a rocket by lighting up some gas or whatever. It would never work without the precise math. But it doesnt mean the idea isnt valid. Its kinda the same how a non scientist would come with the idea to move faster than light by warping space, even know they cant put it into math or the holodeck or hoverboards. Some of them wont work but some will.

Except that the only way to make that "dream" a reality is through precisely the tools you're deriding. Take nuclear bombs, for instance. In concept, they're actually pretty simplistic. The difficulty is machining the instrument to bring about the reaction you desire, which takes a great deal of refinement.

The scientific advancement wasn't "hey, what if we split the atom and released all that energy?" It was in finding a way to actually accomplish that. A dream of a possibility is pointless unless you can bring it into reality. A neat idea is science fiction, not science.

Which isn't to say ideas can't cross that border. Arthur C. Clarke invented the telecommunications satellite. But he wouldn't be credited with that if he hadn't been able to set down precisely how to make that idea function.

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No I dont, its about most people instantly dismissing the ideas as stupid when they arent put into formulas and math.

Ideas without the formulas and math to make them achievable are no different from Star Trek's warp drive. A neat idea with zero applicability to the real world. You may as well be talking about dragons and fairies.

[Deleted]

Ideas without the formulas and math to make them achievable are no different from Star Trek's warp drive. A neat idea with zero applicability to the real world. You may as well be talking about dragons and fairies.

I know that!!!

But youre missing the point I think. Or well the point Im trying to make in any case. Math is dry. It leads nowhere. And imagination is just fairytales as you said.

Then again all ideas start as dreams, concepts, as the background processes of the brain and then the educated, real scientists use math to sort it out. Even the warp drive started out as a dream of a story writer. An idea not proven with zero math involved. But that doesnt mean its automatically wrong or invalid. In fact, theyre on the verge of building the thing.

[Crissi]

Not always. You know that! Just imagine something thats very mundane. Say jumping in a puddle. Can you do the math how every water particle reacts? Probably not. Are you wrong when you say that your legs will get wet and the area surrounding the puddle will see some "rain" as well? Those things arent mutually exclusive.

Observations are not always true. See: vaccinations cause autism. That's why scientists rely on data and math and other things, because the human mind can trick itself and form false conclusions.

[Deleted]

Observations are not always true. See: vaccinations cause autism. That's why scientists rely on data and math and other things, because the human mind can trick itself and form false conclusions.

Well its a bit off topic but I think both sides are wrong. Human body is a very complex system and no one really understands how it works.

[Tsimp]

In fact, theyre on the verge of building the thing.

They aren't.

Is your point literally that any idea is either right or wrong? I mean holy shit, thanks for making a thread to let us know.

[Crissi]

Well its a bit off topic but I think both sides are wrong. Human body is a very complex system and no one really understands how it works.

Yes its complex, and there's still stuff we dont know but going "I dont understand it so its wrong!" is pretty fundamentally anti-science. It should be "i don't understand, so I shall research from credible sources!"

[Deleted]

They aren't.

Is your point literally that any idea is either right or wrong? I mean holy shit, thanks for making a thread to let us know.

No my point is, that just because someone cant use big words and put it into formulas but can explain it in other ways doesnt mean theyre automatically wrong.

[Deleted]

I know that!!!

But youre missing the point I think. Or well the point Im trying to make in any case. Math is dry. It leads nowhere. And imagination is just fairytales as you said.

Then again all ideas start as dreams, concepts, as the background processes of the brain and then the educated, real scientists use math to sort it out. Even the warp drive started out as a dream of a story writer. An idea not proven with zero math involved. But that doesnt mean its automatically wrong or invalid. In fact, theyre on the verge of building the thing.

Time and even more so money isn't infinite, at least not from a persons perspective. You cannot go after every dream you have. If you provide the funding (and a basic concept) you can have your dream slowly become reality. If you don't do that, don't complain that OTHER people should need THEIR time and THEIR money to do shit.
If you don't explain properly, more time on the scientists side is needed, to actually understand what the fuck you want, which they could instead use to do stuff that earns them actually something.