blood elves and dalaran in legion

[Traveler Voltin]

death to the traitor Aethas

[Friendlyimmolation]

They were going for something morally grey with the sunreavers being more guilty but a clusterfuck of writing and miscommunication ended up with the mess we got. It's best to assume guilt on both sides.

The writing miscommunication was aethas was supposed to show up, ask wtf you were doing and get threatened into silence. The 99.9 %of the remaining Sunreavers were innocent

[Koryn123]

They were going for something morally grey with the sunreavers being more guilty but a clusterfuck of writing and miscommunication ended up with the mess we got. It's best to assume guilt on both sides.

While the scene was bugged and didn't show up in-game, Blizzard says it's still canon.

That doesn't mean the Sunreavers are guilty. It means Aethas is guilty of being conflicted between his loyalty to his race and his loyalty to his colleagues. He chose the option that he thought would have a better outcome for his race, as telling Jaina would result in Garrosh punishing the Blood Elves severely. And his punishments usually involve dying.

I don't see why the Kirin Tor blame him so much. They've always put loyalty to other humans before loyalty to non-human Kirin Tor colleagues. Only in their case, it almost resulted in the deaths of a prince/member of the Council of Six, and 15% of the surviving population of Blood Elves, all who were there for the selfless purpose of helping the humans.

In Aethas' case, it resulted in Jaina's feelings being hurt because she's incredibly biased and thought using Dalaran's resources to help the Alliance in the war was okay, but using Dalaran's resources to help the Horde in the war was evil. Jaina immediately murdered 5 Blood Elven archmagi (which is stupid that we're supposed to believe a 30-year old mage could pop in and murder 5 elite hundreds or thousands of year old Blood Elf archmagi who are specifically specialized in the area of magical combat, as they were bodyguards, without breaking a sweat) before even saying a word to Aethas.

No Silver Covenant were hurt until Jaina said they were allowed to arrest the group they obviously hate, who would obviously not trust their word, and the Silver Covenant started beating innocent Sunreaver civilians, strangling helpless Sunreavers over hungry sharks, and murdering innocent shopkeepers staying out of the fight and not getting involved.

And no Kirin Tor were hurt until Jaina declared them for the Alliance, with at least Modera's backing, on the Isle of Thunder. Which also makes it completely idiotic that Blizzard is trying to claim Modera is an advocate for Aethas and the Blood Elves, when on the Isle of Thunder, she was sadistically pleased that Blood Elves were being killed by Saurok.

Kirin Tor humans value other humans more than their non-human colleagues, and Blood Elves die. Then they say it's all good and the Blood Elves are the ones in the wrong.

Kirin Tor Blood Elf values other Blood Elves more than human colleagues, and Blood Elves die, and Kirin Tor say it's bad and the Blood Elves are still in the wrong.

[delus]

While the scene was bugged and didn't show up in-game, Blizzard says it's still canon.

That doesn't mean the Sunreavers are guilty. It means Aethas is guilty of being conflicted between his loyalty to his race and his loyalty to his colleagues. He chose the option that he thought would have a better outcome for his race, as telling Jaina would result in Garrosh punishing the Blood Elves severely. And his punishments usually involve dying.

I don't see why the Kirin Tor blame him so much. They've always put loyalty to other humans before loyalty to non-human Kirin Tor colleagues. Only in their case, it almost resulted in the deaths of a prince/member of the Council of Six, and 15% of the surviving population of Blood Elves, all who were there for the selfless purpose of helping the humans.

In Aethas' case, it resulted in Jaina's feelings being hurt because she's incredibly biased and thought using Dalaran's resources to help the Alliance in the war was okay, but using Dalaran's resources to help the Horde in the war was evil. Jaina immediately murdered 5 Blood Elven archmagi (which is stupid that we're supposed to believe a 30-year old mage could pop in and murder 5 elite hundreds or thousands of year old Blood Elf archmagi who are specifically specialized in the area of magical combat, as they were bodyguards, without breaking a sweat) before even saying a word to Aethas.

No Silver Covenant were hurt until Jaina said they were allowed to arrest the group they obviously hate, who would obviously not trust their word, and the Silver Covenant started beating innocent Sunreaver civilians, strangling helpless Sunreavers over hungry sharks, and murdering innocent shopkeepers staying out of the fight and not getting involved.

And no Kirin Tor were hurt until Jaina declared them for the Alliance, with at least Modera's backing, on the Isle of Thunder. Which also makes it completely idiotic that Blizzard is trying to claim Modera is an advocate for Aethas and the Blood Elves, when on the Isle of Thunder, she was sadistically pleased that Blood Elves were being killed by Saurok.

Kirin Tor humans value other humans more than their non-human colleagues, and Blood Elves die. Then they say it's all good and the Blood Elves are the ones in the wrong.

Kirin Tor Blood Elf values other Blood Elves more than human colleagues, and Blood Elves die, and Kirin Tor say it's bad and the Blood Elves are still in the wrong.

The scene only shows that Aethas witheld information from the Kirin'tor and lied to Lor'themar. And yes, it is cannon.

[Kallisto]

I wish people would stop hate bashing her so much she's human just like everyone else of her race they make judgmental calls right or wrong it's as triple h would say what's best for business.

No when you're in power you need to make calls without falling to emotional sentiment. Emotions need to be switched off from the moment you're corinated to the moment you die or abdicate. She used no rational thought and made herself unfit for leadership.

[Oneirophobia]

Yeah, it shows that not only Aethas, but all the Sunreavers are battered partners blaming themselves for their partner's abusive tendencies.

The Blood Elves were wrongfully persecuted and mistreated by the Kirin Tor for the second time, and Blizzard is writing them as groveling pitiful wretches who would bend over backwards for a pat on the head from their human Kirin Tor masters and forever be mistrusted and hated by everyone in Dalaran, rather than be Magisters in Silvermoon where their skills and insight would be respected and valued.

Nope, instead Blizzard has them being exactly like a battered person, blaming themselves and making excuses for their partner whenever the neighbors call the police after the partner was beating them or making loud threats (or kicking the door trying to get into the house while in a drunken rage, in my neighbor's cases, but the wife beats him back after the police leave, so no sympathy for them).

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Lorewise, I believe the Silver Covenant went with Vereesa to serve at the Hunter Order Hall. Where the Farstriders are perfectly happy to work for her and her lapdogs too. When she's a grunt-rank ranger who betrayed her kingdom and called herself a Ranger-General over an organization founded for the sole purpose of opposing the Blood Elves. But no, the Farstriders would totally follow them.

Would've been much better for Auric Sunchaser to be in charge of the mission in the Marksmanship Weapon scenario, since he's Alleria's third-in-command, and was a Captain in the Farstriders under the system that both groups once belonged to, so both groups would recognize his experience and authority. And both groups respect the High Elves that went to Outland with Alleria as heroes of Quel'thalas, so it would make total sense.

But nope. Instead Vereesa is in charge, and is emotionally compromised as Orestes, introduced in MoP says. She stubbornly denies it, and says she's gonna go in alone. Orestes says it's too dangerous. She doesn't listen, so he goes ahead anyway. Then she says it's too dangerous to go alone. Then they get to the other side, and Orestes, the well-meaning rational one, dies, while Vereesa, the stupid hot girl in the horror movie who trips over nothing and makes all sorts of mistakes that should result in her dying to the monster but don't, is the one who survives.

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In Day of the Dragon, Deathwing disguised as Daval Prestor remarked that the only eligible princesses for him to marry to solidify his manipulative relationship with a kingdom would be Calia Menethil and Jaina Proudmoore, but that Jaina was just a young child.

So Tess must have been an infant at that time (Year 10), and would now be 22 or 23. Anduin was born in Year 15, so he'd be 17 or 18.

I dunno, it could be possible, but 5 years seems like a bit of a big age gap.

18 and 23 would be fine!

[Koryn123]

The scene only shows that Aethas witheld information from the Kirin'tor and lied to Lor'themar. And yes, it is cannon.

Yup, I know what the scene was. I was just explaining what happened afterward.

[FelPlague]

Sunreavers didn't do it. The Blood Elf magi you see there are Reliquary mages loyal to Garrosh, who are unaffiliated with the Sunreavers.

The only Sunreaver who knew anything was up was Aethas, and he's the ONLY one.

I guess if the Sunreavers can all be blamed for Aethas being conflicted between loyalties to his people and the Kirin Tor, then I suppose all Kirin Tor can be blamed for Kel'thuzad. He was a member of their organization, after all.

Or all the Silver Hand for Arthas. That's one person in an organization, too.

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The only "crime" any of the other Sunreavers are guilty of is resisting arrest by the group that they know full well hates them.

Jaina isn't queen of Dalaran. She has to talk to the Council and they have to agree before making a decision that affects the city.

The Silver Covenant have no authority. They're nothing but a racist brute squad militia. They're not Dalaran's police force, nor are they any official military of Dalaran. They as an organization aren't even Kirin Tor members, while the Sunreavers were. So the Silver Covenant had no authority, while the Sunreavers actually did have authority.

again as we said

the kirin tor is a massive group of people, kelthuzad was one person, and it wasent instant like this was
the silver hand is a massive group, arthas again wasent in the heat of the moment

the blood elves in daalran is only a few hundred, so about 20 of them to go bad ,how do you know what others are guilty too... .but i see i cant change your socialist ways....

[Melsiren]

again as we said

the kirin tor is a massive group of people, kelthuzad was one person, and it wasent instant like this was
the silver hand is a massive group, arthas again wasent in the heat of the moment

the blood elves in daalran is only a few hundred, so about 20 of them to go bad ,how do you know what others are guilty too... .but i see i cant change your socialist ways....

You claim to be a lore nerd and you pull numbers out of your ass.

You're either completely ignorant of the topic you speak of, or your tusks are showing.

I'm leaning on the tusks.

[FelPlague]

It's quite ironic to call yourself a major lore nerd and then make so many mistakes.

You should google Order 66.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4L_S9K-BkQ&t=85

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOelkJGOBRY&t=33

Major lore nerd... right..

Dalaran is not her city, she's the leader of the council.
She had no right to kick them out. You'd know if you were a major lore nerd.


The Blood Elves committed nothing, this was one spy that worked for Garrosh.
The only thing being committed here is genocide. Genocide against innocent people. By Jaina and her Silver Covenant.

And it's not her city!
Remember this quote:

It's 100% true.
Jaina was the leader of the council.
That's like being the PM of a country, and that doesn't give you the right to randomly exile people and kill them when they refuse.

Only on MMO-C can you find people defending a dictator with genocidal tendencies.

1. ok...?
2. it is not detailed there but elsewhere, in a few books, quest text, and later recaps that she was peaceful till they attacked, also notice how they are in ready to fight animation, when her elementle attacks, they are mages, any second they could kill her, so she kills them, except for aethis cause hes not being hostile but again heat of the moment

she does have the right as the lead of the council, they do have the right to be there but she has the right to kick the horde out for using her neutral city ,to commit war crimes

multiple spies... you think 1 spy was able to drag the bell all the way? its said somewhere to be about 15 or so?

she is the leader of the council, has the most say over any other

even in you video, as you see she only attacked those threatening her safety, as the one standing in the middle was not attacked 3/4 that where readying their weapons were attacked (the fourth on the left there should have been hit actually... you see the frost bolt that was suppose to hit him hit the far left body again)


im not saying what she did what wrong... but im saying, from her perspective, it was 100% the best thing to do at the time, in her mind there is nothing else she could have done, a bunch of blood elves in her city, able to escape the punishment of using her city for war crimes, and did not want to risk them being able to use her city for more evil, or let them stay and risk the allaince punish her for letting the blood elves get away with using her city for commiting a war crime

shes basicly what arthas is doing with the culling of stratholme, to them it was the 100% BEST THING TO DO, was there ways it could have been avoided? no, was it good? no, could with more time us solve it without tons of deaths? yes, but could it get worse if left to sit? yes. all questions we ask here... and the culling of stratholme...

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You claim to be a lore nerd and you pull numbers out of your ass.

You're either completely ignorant of the topic you speak of, or your tusks are showing.

I'm leaning on the tusks.

tusks? also the city of dalaran is for the esteemed
Approximately 3,000 in the city, and humans are the highest population there (cheack wowwiki for dalarans population)

Human
High elf
Gnome
Blood elf
goblin
Highborne

order of population

[Melsiren]

Approximately 3,000 in the city, and humans are the highest population there (cheack wowwiki for dalarans population)

You use Wowwiki, to make it worse you use the Wowiki population records that were made non-canonical 4 and a half years ago.

Way to discredit yourself.


I was referring to your imaginary number of agents, not the overall population of Dalaran. I get it, in your headcannon it must have been more then the two we know of.

the blood elves in daalran is only a few hundred, so about 20 of them to go bad ,how do you know what others are guilty too.

Was what I was referring to.

That's just it, there was only evidence that there was a Bloodelf that was working for Garrosh.

Aethis knew about it, however was threatened by Garrosh, so he kept it hidden because he made the wrong assumption that Jaina would be just when she found out.

[Koryn123]

1. ok...?
2. it is not detailed there but elsewhere, in a few books, quest text, and later recaps that she was peaceful till they attacked, also notice how they are in ready to fight animation, when her elementle attacks, they are mages, any second they could kill her, so she kills them, except for aethis cause hes not being hostile but again heat of the moment

she does have the right as the lead of the council, they do have the right to be there but she has the right to kick the horde out for using her neutral city ,to commit war crimes

multiple spies... you think 1 spy was able to drag the bell all the way? its said somewhere to be about 15 or so?

she is the leader of the council, has the most say over any other

even in you video, as you see she only attacked those threatening her safety, as the one standing in the middle was not attacked 3/4 that where readying their weapons were attacked (the fourth on the left there should have been hit actually... you see the frost bolt that was suppose to hit him hit the far left body again)


im not saying what she did what wrong... but im saying, from her perspective, it was 100% the best thing to do at the time, in her mind there is nothing else she could have done, a bunch of blood elves in her city, able to escape the punishment of using her city for war crimes, and did not want to risk them being able to use her city for more evil, or let them stay and risk the allaince punish her for letting the blood elves get away with using her city for commiting a war crime

shes basicly what arthas is doing with the culling of stratholme, to them it was the 100% BEST THING TO DO, was there ways it could have been avoided? no, was it good? no, could with more time us solve it without tons of deaths? yes, but could it get worse if left to sit? yes. all questions we ask here... and the culling of stratholme...

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tusks? also the city of dalaran is for the esteemed
Approximately 3,000 in the city, and humans are the highest population there (cheack wowwiki for dalarans population)

Human
High elf
Gnome
Blood elf
goblin
Highborne

order of population

Jaina is the leader of a council. That doesn't mean she has the authority to act without the Council's consent. When Jaina went to Dalaran asking for the Kirin Tor to break their neutrality to help Theramore against the Horde, Rhonin spoke with the Council and they unanimously agreed TOGETHER that Dalaran couldn't get involved, because being neutral means you don't help either side. Then when she asked them again later on, they finally agreed TOGETHER that they'd send a very small handful of magi, hoping the presence of neutral Dalaran would discourage the Horde from attacking. He specifically said that they wouldn't help ATTACK the Horde, only DEFEND Theramore (and that alone is grounds for breaking their neutrality). Jaina does that and way more later on, when she not only helps Alliance defend the Divine Bell from Garrosh, but actively kills any Horde who tried to get into Darnassus, before Fanlyr used her own cheap tactics to help the Horde instead.

So, Jaina using Dalaran's resources to help the Alliance in the war is fine, but Horde (not Sunreavers) using Dalaran's resources to help the Horde in the war is a war crime?

Only ONE Sunreaver was involved, and he was acting as a double agent under Garrosh's orders, not Aethas' or Lor'themar's or anyone else's. There are NPCs named "Silvermoon Mage" powering the invisibility bubble around Fanlyr and the portal from Krasarang, but no Sunreavers.

Provide quest text or novel sources to back up your headcanon that Jaina walked into the Violet Citadel and announced her intentions before apparently acting in self-defense when she murdered 5 innocent Sunreaver Archmagi who never threw a single spell in the time that it took for she and her elemental to throw 5.

If they had been about to attack her, I highly doubt that 5 master Magisters of Quel'thalas wouldn't have been able to toss a single fireball at the traitorous "neutral" leader. She popped in, and everyone knows she's irrational and emotionally and mentally damaged after the destruction of Theramore, so I can't imagine any Blood Elf would assume she has kind intentions when she rapidly teleports in with her trademark water elemental, used for combat purposes. Of course the Magisters were wary. But they never attacked her. Jaina ported in and murdered all of them.

And who is the one speaking during those recaps you claim exist that show Jaina in a better light? Jaina herself on the Isle of Thunder? Vereesa on the Isle of Thunder? Tyrande, the Horde-hating prosecutor in the War Crimes novel? Anybody who isn't incredibly biased in the Alliance's favor? No? If not, then I'll go by what I see in-game, thank you very much.

The "right" thing for Jaina to do would have been to confront Aethas with her fellow Council members, just like Antonidas, Ansirem, Modera, Kael'thas, and Drenden did when they suspected Kel'thuzad of foul play when he was practicing Necromancy. She should have enlisted the KIRIN TOR to investigate, not the Silver Covenant, who the Sunreavers would know hate them and thus would never trust them if they said to the Sunreavers that Jaina said they could arrest them.

Jaina's actions guaranteed a bloodbath, and the Silver Covenant abused their nonexistent authority by beating innocent Sunreaver civilians to vent their misplaced childish anger at the Blood Elves for banishing High Elves from Quel'thalas to Quel'lithien Lodge (none of whom are among the Silver Covenant, and they're all dead now.)

And those population numbers are from the non-canon RPG, so they aren't a resource. And it doesn't matter how many Blood Elves there were. They had at least 1/5 or 1/4 of the city as the Sunreaver Sanctuary. I highly doubt that means their population is small.

There were not "20" Sunreavers involved. There was ONE Sunreavers involved. Aethas was not involved. He accidentally stumbled upon it. He didn't help. The ONE Sunreaver involved is briefly mentioned in passing in War Crimes ("A Sunreaver agent, on orders from Garrosh"). Their identity is unknown, but they were obviously no longer loyal to the Sunreavers or the Kirin Tor, switching sides to Garrosh as Thalen did in Cataclysm.

"multiple spies... you think 1 spy was able to drag the bell all the way? its said somewhere to be about 15 or so?"

Nobody "dragged" the Divine Bell anywhere. The Horde agent that Fanlyr Silverthorn (NOT a Sunreaver) sends into Darnassus puts some kind of homing beacon on the Divine Bell deep within the Cenarion Enclave's Barrow Den-type cave. This enabled Fanlyr to teleport it out. If you think your headcanon is correct, provide a source.

Lorewise, the Bell was teleported into some kind of in-between place in Dalaran's portal network. It is here when Aethas stumbles upon Ishi and the player, saying "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?! YOU'RE GOING TO RUIN EVERYTHING THE SUNREAVERS HAVE WORKED SO HARD TO ACHIEVE!!" Or something to that nature. He was angry that Dalaran's resources were used in the war, anyway. Then Ishi stomps up to him and threatens him into silence. Then Fanlyr teleports it the rest of the way to Silvermoon for safekeeping.

"A bunch of Blood Elves in her city, able to escape the punishment of using her city for war crimes" when only one Sunreaver actually helped Garrosh?

"And did not want to risk them being able to use her city for more evil" so using Dalaran's resources to help the Horde is "evil" but using them to help the Alliance while pretending you're still neutral is perfectly okay?




There were definitely ways it could have been avoided. The first way would have been for Jaina to keep Dalaran neutral as she always pretended it was. She would do this by NOT using Dalaran's resources to help the Alliance keep the Divine Bell safe from the Horde. From her WoWPedia (The reliable source for WoW lore info, not WoWWiki) page: "Jaina herself had set wards around the city, and had slain any Horde intruders who had attempted to claim it."

So, not only is Jaina helping the Alliance by placing wards around the city to prevent Horde from teleporting in, but she is actively killing any Horde that tried to get in. That she thinks she can still pretend to be neutral is absolutely hilarious.

Because she used Dalaran to blatantly favor the Alliance, Horde agents were forced to do the same for the Horde. Only Jaina acted like her actions weren't violating Dalaran's or her own neutrality.

Everything bad that happens to Jaina has always been because she pretends to be neutral while helping the Alliance. And everyone treats her like this big innocent poor victim because she pretends she was neutral, and thus claims that the Horde had no reason to hurt her in Theramore or hurt her in Dalaran. And because it feeds into the Alliance's hate for the Horde, they accept it without question.

[Deleted]

Do we know that Jaina acted without the Approval of the Majority of the Council?

Back in MoP, the Council Members were Jaina Proudmoore, Khadgar, Ansirem Runeweaver, Modera, Karlain and Aethas Sunreaver.

Jaina is hardcore pro Alliance. Modera is the oldest Council Member and was a Alliance Member oncem she was there when Garithos wanted to kill Kael'thas and did nothing. Ansirem is also a Council Member wo was there when Garithos did that and did nothing, also he lead the Forces arround the Dalaran Shield and had Problems with the Forsaken, it's to assume he would also be more pro Alliance. Khadgar is Neutral, Karlain is a hard one, we know nothing about him but he is totally in control of his emotions, his Son is a Alliance Warrior and he lived in Goldshire once. He could be more Pro-Alliance, but it's to assume that he would vote what he thinks is the best and most pragmatic for Dalaran, Aethas was Pro-Horde. With Aethas arrested after the apparently betrayal, there were 5 Council Members left. It seemed that the Sunreavers were Horde-Loyal traitors, Dalaran suffered twice through betrayas from their ranks, the first time they lost their Leader and a Apprentice and 3 out of 5 are probably more Alliance-biased. There were no uproar from the ranks of the Kirin Tor and even during the assault on the Isle of the Thunder King and the battle against the Blood Elfs there, everyone was seemed to be fine with being a member of the Alliance. Don't you think that it could be that the Alliance supporters were just in the majority back then? In Legion on the Other Hand, we have Khadgar as the Leader of the Six and Kalecgos and Vargoth as new Members. So, even if Modera and Ansirem are still Alliance biased, the people who would vote for Neutrality could still make the majority of votes.

But it's still stupid. Dalaran is a Human Kingdom, it was a Member of the Alliance and yet again Neutral. Yeah, again something that belonged to the Humans and the Alliance that was made Neutral. Why couldn't they make Silvermoon or a flying Quel'danas the new Neutral Hotspot?

[Koryn123]

Do we know that Jaina acted without the Approval of the Majority of the Council?

Back in MoP, the Council Members were Jaina Proudmoore, Khadgar, Ansirem Runeweaver, Modera, Karlain and Aethas Sunreaver.

Jaina is hardcore pro Alliance. Modera is the oldest Council Member and was a Alliance Member oncem she was there when Garithos wanted to kill Kael'thas and did nothing. Ansirem is also a Council Member wo was there when Garithos did that and did nothing, also he lead the Forces arround the Dalaran Shield and had Problems with the Forsaken, it's to assume he would also be more pro Alliance. Khadgar is Neutral, Karlain is a hard one, we know nothing about him but he is totally in control of his emotions, his Son is a Alliance Warrior and he lived in Goldshire once. He could be more Pro-Alliance, but it's to assume that he would vote what he thinks is the best and most pragmatic for Dalaran, Aethas was Pro-Horde. With Aethas arrested after the apparently betrayal, there were 5 Council Members left. It seemed that the Sunreavers were Horde-Loyal traitors, Dalaran suffered twice through betrayas from their ranks, the first time they lost their Leader and a Apprentice and 3 out of 5 are probably more Alliance-biased. There were no uproar from the ranks of the Kirin Tor and even during the assault on the Isle of the Thunder King and the battle against the Blood Elfs there, everyone was seemed to be fine with being a member of the Alliance. Don't you think that it could be that the Alliance supporters were just in the majority back then? In Legion on the Other Hand, we have Khadgar as the Leader of the Six and Kalecgos and Vargoth as new Members. So, even if Modera and Ansirem are still Alliance biased, the people who would vote for Neutrality could still make the majority of votes.

But it's still stupid. Dalaran is a Human Kingdom, it was a Member of the Alliance and yet again Neutral. Yeah, again something that belonged to the Humans and the Alliance that was made Neutral. Why couldn't they make Silvermoon or a flying Quel'danas the new Neutral Hotspot?

I'd much prefer the Blood Elves giving Dalaran the finger, and investigating the Nightborne's culture themselves, moving into some Nightborne city and making that their base of operations. But Blizzard doesn't like making the effort to make non-human characters look good.

Jaina and them can be pro-Alliance, but that doesn't mean they can pretend to be neutral. And it doesn't mean they can claim Aethas betrayed them, because if they were Alliance, they'd have just been enemies and it wouldn't be called betrayal. If they'd always been pro-Alliance enough to readily screw over the Sunreavers, they can't be high and mighty and offended that one Sunreaver agent working for Garrosh helped the Horde get passed the wards Jaina blatantly favored the Alliance by setting up. It's incredibly hypocritical of them to do that, then in Legion not realize their hypocrisy.

Jaina did not act with the approval of the Council. She was using Dalaran's resources to ward Darnassus against Horde incursions, and she herself personally killed any Horde who had previously attempted to get in. Then when she found out the Horde used Dalaran's resources to help the Horde, Jaina freaked out, angry that the Horde used neutral resources in the war. She immediately teleports to the Violet Citadel, not consulting any of the Council in that time. The Purge happens, then on the Isle of Thunder, Modera is present and sadistically pleased that the Saurok are killing Blood Elves.

Then in Legion, Blizzard is suddenly pretending that she's a forgiving neutral nice advocate for Aethas and the Blood Elves and always has been.

It's ridiculous and idiotic that Blizzard is so lazy they can't even keep their story straight.

[Deleted]

I'd much prefer the Blood Elves giving Dalaran the finger, and investigating the Nightborne's culture themselves, moving into some Nightborne city and making that their base of operations. But Blizzard doesn't like making the effort to make non-human characters look good.

Jaina and them can be pro-Alliance, but that doesn't mean they can pretend to be neutral. And it doesn't mean they can claim Aethas betrayed them, because if they were Alliance, they'd have just been enemies and it wouldn't be called betrayal. If they'd always been pro-Alliance enough to readily screw over the Sunreavers, they can't be high and mighty and offended that one Sunreaver agent working for Garrosh helped the Horde get passed the wards Jaina blatantly favored the Alliance by setting up. It's incredibly hypocritical of them to do that, then in Legion not realize their hypocrisy.

Jaina did not act with the approval of the Council. She was using Dalaran's resources to ward Darnassus against Horde incursions, and she herself personally killed any Horde who had previously attempted to get in. Then when she found out the Horde used Dalaran's resources to help the Horde, Jaina freaked out, angry that the Horde used neutral resources in the war. She immediately teleports to the Violet Citadel, not consulting any of the Council in that time. The Purge happens, then on the Isle of Thunder, Modera is present and sadistically pleased that the Saurok are killing Blood Elves.

Then in Legion, Blizzard is suddenly pretending that she's a forgiving neutral nice advocate for Aethas and the Blood Elves and always has been.

It's ridiculous and idiotic that Blizzard is so lazy they can't even keep their story straight.

Is there more than the Headcanon of Horde-Fanboys to prove the claim that Jaina acted without the approval of the Council?

[Koryn123]

Is there more than the Headcanon of Horde-Fanboys to prove the claim that Jaina acted without the approval of the Council?

Yes. Alliance players investigate the theft of the Divine Bell from Darnassus with Jaina. She discovers a portal from Dalaran that was used in the heist, says she won't be betrayed again, and you both go through the portal directly into the Violet Citadel where Jaina immediately murders three Sunreaver magi, accuses Aethas of treachery, encases him in a block of ice, murders two more Sunreaver magi, teleports Aethas and herself away, orders Vereesa and her Silver Covenant to round up the Sunreavers and send those who surrender to the Violet Hold, and murder any who refuse to be betrayed a second time in the city they've called home since before Jaina's grandparents were even born, and Vereesa orders the player to help.

She sends the player to murder a Blood Elf withdrawing his own assets from the bank, saying that he's probably going to steal from the Silver Covenant's vault, and because she is of that biased opinion, the innocent Sunreaver deserves to die. Then she says

"He relinquished whatever funds he left in the bank when he and his Sunreaver kind betrayed us."

So, she claims he's /going/ to steal from them, so he should die, and you should steal his stuff, because that's not hypocritical at all.


She sends the player to murder four innocent Blood Elf shopkeepers for not helping the Silver Covenant. They were remaining in their businesses, not getting involved in the bloodbath. Just like a few Kirin Tor NPCs in those same businesses. But when it's Blood Elves, they're evil and the murder is apparently justified. Then upon completion, she says

"Sometimes, you have to fight back."

And by that, I suppose she means

"Sometimes, you're just really mad that your husband was killed by an orc and you just really need to take out your anger on something, and what better way than to dehumanize an entire group of people because their eyes are green while mine are blue, and go on a homicidal rampage through their homes, so go murder some people who weren't involved in any way, shape, or form with my husband's death so I can feel good about myself and pretend we're the good guys, justifying my bloodthirsty murderous behavior by telling myself that these innocent civilians somehow knew about and were key players in the supposed treachery committed by Aethas."

She sends the player to remove the Sunreavers' Dragonhawks as a mode of escape for them, giving the player some sleeping powder to put the dragonhawks to sleep,

"Or kill them. I don't care."

And that's a direct quote.

She sends the player to murder the Sunreavers defending their homes in the Sunreaver Sanctuary, saying compliant Sunreavers are sent to the Violet Hold (but evidently, not before her Silver Covenant dogs have a little "fun" by beating the living crap out of them while they cower defenseless), while those "who refuse to leave" have to face "justice" because "They used neutral Kirin Tor resources to aid the Horde in their fight against the Alliance" after Jaina used neutral Kirin Tor resources to aid the Alliance in their fight against the Horde by doing everything she could to protect the Divine Bell in Darnassus and personally kill any Horde who tried to get it.

She sends the player to murder the Sunreavers in the Dalaran Sewers, calling them "lying rats."

I find it funny that now in Legion, Blizzard is presenting the Kirin Tor and Silver Covenant as the good guys, and Blood Elves as the ones who need to make reparations before the Kirin Tor will let them beg to be allowed back in Dalaran. In fact, I hate dearly the fact that Blizzard presents the Blood Elves as desperate to be the Kirin Tor's subservient pets.

[Deleted]

And where is the part were you wanted to prove that the Council doesn't approved her actions?

Also, the fuck was doing everything she could do to protect the Divine Bell in Darnassus breaking Neutrality?

It was known that Garrosh wanted to use the Bell and he has already showed the whole world what he does with dangerous magical artifacts, while the Alliance decided not to use the Divine Bell. Helping the Alliance to keep was just like taking it from the game, because you know, originally keeping dangerous spells and artifacts from the wrong hands off was pretty much their job and the Night Elves have pretty much proven themselves trustworthy after defending Nordrassil for 10.000 years from the Legion and sacrificing their immortality to save Azeroth. The Orcs on the other hand have proven themselves pretty untrustworthy in the course of their history, with slaughtering members of the neutral blue Dragonflight, stealing their most powerful and dangerous artifact and using it in a giantic Manabomb with which they killed the Leader of the Kirin Tor and annihilated a whole City-State being the freshest example back in that time.

[Koryn123]

And where is the part were you wanted to prove that the Council doesn't approved her actions?

Also, the fuck was doing everything she could do to protect the Divine Bell in Darnassus breaking Neutrality?

It was known that Garrosh wanted to use the Bell and he has already showed the whole world what he does with dangerous magical artifacts, while the Alliance decided not to use the Divine Bell. Helping the Alliance to keep was just like taking it from the game, because you know, originally keeping dangerous spells and artifacts from the wrong hands off was pretty much their job and the Night Elves have pretty much proven themselves trustworthy after defending Nordrassil for 10.000 years from the Legion and sacrificing their immortality to save Azeroth. The Orcs on the other hand have proven themselves pretty untrustworthy in the course of their history, with slaughtering members of the neutral blue Dragonflight, stealing their most powerful and dangerous artifact and using it in a giantic Manabomb with which they killed the Leader of the Kirin Tor and annihilated a whole City-State being the freshest example back in that time.

I'm saying she acted without the Council's approval, as in meeting and talking with them all and having a rational thorough investigation before she loosed the racist prejudiced childish bloodthirsty Silver Covenant on the innocent Sunreavers.

And it's breaking their neutrality because they claimed not to be involved in the war.

I have no problem with them acting in sympathy with the Alliance. What I do have a problem with is that they act like they weren't breaking neutrality by helping one side of the war, and solely because they say they're neutral, even though they aren't, everyone treats them like a victim whenever they get bit in the ass for being idiots, and everyone calls the Blood Elves traitors and evil, and then Blizzard, in order to make the Kirin Tor look more powerful by comparison, have the Blood Elves, the race that's been steeped in magic for over 10,000 years as High Elves and Highborne before them, the ones who taught humans magic and lived and worked together side by side as friends and allies for 3,000 years, before being so dismissively tossed aside the moment they became inconvenient TWICE now go crawling back, quite literally begging on their knees for the abusive traitorous, murderous, callous, unapologetic, shortsighted, racist humans to take them back and let them be their footstools again.

I also have a problem with them calling the Blood Elves traitors when they betrayed them first, and hold the Blood Elves to a standard they're unwilling to uphold themselves. And by that, I mean that the Kirin Tor expect the Blood Elves to be loyal to the Kirin Tor first, before their loyalties to their people or kingdom.

While at the same time, the Kirin Tor are more loyal to other humans that aren't even from Dalaran than they are to Elves that have lived in Dalaran alongside them for generations.

When the Kirin Tor value non-Kirin Tor humans more than Kirin Tor elves, they claim the Elves are the ones in the wrong, and that they themselves are perfectly fine and not traitors.

When the Blood Elf Kirin Tor members value non-Kirin Tor Blood Elves more than their human Kirin Tor allies, the Kirin Tor screams treachery and betrayal and "Horde r monsters"

[Kallisto]

Hahaha.
Because trusting the Night Elves with gigantic power has never gone wrong before.
It would probably be safer in the hands of the Blood Elves.
Because the Alliance's warcry should be changed to: "Do as I say, not as I do!"

It would have likely been destroyed under the orders of Lor'themar if Jaina didn't go on her "They don't realise Neutrality means pro alliance so I must kill them all." rampage. Especially after what it did to Aethas and Rommath. So yes it would obviously be much safer in the hands of the Sin'dorei because it would have been destroyed and no longer capable of being a weapon.

Also wonder if any alliance fan has done that part of Pandaria campaign since it also had the so called Horde loving Aethas calling for the Sin'dorei to leave the horde. In Silvermoon of all places.

[Deleted]

Aethas was part of the council.
He clearly disagreed.

Which doesn't matter if a majority of the council aggrees? Which they probably did, because if they didn't the whole Kirin Tor is Alliance Story in MoP didn't had worked?

Kel'thuzad was also a Member of the Six and was kicked out for a lesser crime.

Also:

“I am… revolted by Garrosh’s actions,” said Aethas. “And I take responsibility for the harm done by one of my own Sunreavers. But attacking Orgrimmar is not the answer.”

That alone could justify kicking Aethas out of the Council. After all, he voluntarily takes the responsibility for the acts that helped the Horde destroy Theramore and killing the Kirin Tors Leader.