[Megathread] Dark Souls 3

[Cattleya]

Don't think it was intended though, it was an over sight and I don't think they will bother to patch it.

When the PC version was gated streaming wise by namco they had no clue you could kill the NPC to fight the dancer and go beyond. Cohhcarnage literally killed dancer and ocerius and was progressing to armour before Namco was finally like no, shut it down(he contacted them the second he spawned dancer asking if it was ok and they where ok with it for the moment...) I mean, you could argue namco doesn't know wtf they're talking about but for From Software to leave them in the dark about something that big would be puzzling.

Nah, I doubt it's an oversight, otherwise they would've just stopped the basin from spawning until you beat the other lords of cinder, just like the grand archives key.

[Poppincaps]

Don't think it was intended though, it was an over sight and I don't think they will bother to patch it.

When the PC version was gated streaming wise by namco they had no clue you could kill the NPC to fight the dancer and go beyond. Cohhcarnage literally killed dancer and ocerius and was progressing to armour before Namco was finally like no, shut it down(he contacted them the second he spawned dancer asking if it was ok and they where ok with it for the moment...) I mean, you could argue namco doesn't know wtf they're talking about but for From Software to leave them in the dark about something that big would be puzzling.

I don't think From Software anticipated how people would be able to break DS1 to get pretty much whatever they wanted from the first half of the game within an hour either but it's still in the game and part of what makes DS1 so great.

[Tech614]

I suppose you have some way of proving that it only affected a small portion of the community? Because the proof that it was a bigger deal is the fact that From Software thought it was a big enough deal that they addressed it in DS2. Do you have some statistics that shows how many people were hounded by twinks? I doubt it.

Soul Memory did suck somewhat but like I said, I never had any problems with it. I still saw a diverse array of builds. If anything, the fact that people were able to level so high made the diversity of builds even higher because you could use anything you wanted and could combine things that you might not if you were restricted to a lower level. Soul Memory wasn't good, but it didn't "ruin" pvp.

Everyone having everything is anti diversity. No sure you know the meaning of the word.

By your same logic "they did something about twinking so it was an obvious issue" hmm... So when did Soul Memory make a return? Seems they did something about that to...

Here is the reality, twinking wasn't even a really major thing until a good way into the life of DS1 which is right there making it not effect a large portion of players who had already beat and moved on from the game. On top of that, once you're out of undead parish twinking again was mostly a non issue entirely as that is where most twinks hunted. So yes, if you actually knew anything about twinking you can deduct that it effected a small % of the player base for a small portion of the game...

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Nah, I doubt it's an oversight, otherwise they would've just stopped the basin from spawning until you beat the other lords of cinder, just like the grand archives key.

Then once again, tell my why the publisher of the game had no idea if it was okay to stream or not since they gated the game at abyss watchers and streamers where technically doing it before. They literally had no idea and didn't account for it.

If you actually kill her, it's pretty anti climatic compared to how she actually dies when done proper as well. If anything it's an oversight From knew about but didn't care to leave in the game for reasons already stated. Nothing about it feels planned or like it was meant to happen though.

[Poppincaps]

Everyone having everything is anti diversity. No sure you know the meaning of the word.

By your same logic "they did something about twinking so it was an obvious issue" hmm... So when did Soul Memory make a return? Seems they did something about that to...

Here is the reality, twinking wasn't even a really major thing until a good way into the life of DS1 which is right there making it not effect a large portion of players who had already beat and moved on from the game. On top of that, once you're out of undead parish twinking again was mostly a non issue entirely as that is where most twinks hunted. So yes, if you actually knew anything about twinking you can deduct that it effected a small % of the player base for a small portion of the game...

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Then once again, tell my why the publisher of the game had no idea if it was okay to stream or not since they gated the game at abyss watchers and streamers where technically doing it before. They literally had no idea and didn't account for it.

If you actually kill her, it's pretty anti climatic compared to how she actually dies when done proper as well. If anything it's an oversight From knew about but didn't care to leave in the game for reasons already stated. Nothing about it feels planned or like it was meant to happen though.

Everyone having everything is anti diversity. Everyone having ACCESS to everything which is what DS2 is, is diversity. You're still limited in what you can actually use either through upgrade materials or slots. One character can't use everything at the same time.

Soul Memory was a serious problem but it didn't ruin the PVP. Much like twinking was a serious problem in DS1 but it didn't ruin PVP. So my point still stands. Keep in mind that twinking wasn't the criticism that I levied against DS1 PVP. It was a part of it that you chose to dispute. The lack of interesting covenants are a much bigger problem that twinking.

[Tech614]

Everyone having everything is anti diversity. Everyone having ACCESS to everything which is what DS2 is, is diversity. You're still limited in what you can actually use either through upgrade materials or slots. One character can't use everything at the same time.

Soul Memory was a serious problem but it didn't ruin the PVP. Much like twinking was a serious problem in DS1 but it didn't ruin PVP. So my point still stands. Keep in mind that twinking wasn't the criticism that I levied against DS1 PVP. It was a part of it that you chose to dispute. The lack of interesting covenants are a much bigger problem that twinking.

Convenants are nothing but window dressing, DS1 PVP was far more competitive and active with a cohesive community. It was far superior to DS2 PVP to pretty much everyone but DS2 babies.

[Djriff]

I think i'm finally ready to do NG+, spent a couple hours farming souls and buying litereally everything. Beat every boss available so far.

[Poppincaps]

Convenants are nothing but window dressing, DS1 PVP was far more competitive and active with a cohesive community. It was far superior to DS2 PVP to pretty much everyone but DS2 babies.

Umm... okay whatever you say. BTW I started with DS1, but you keep believing it's superior while not offering any real reasons why it is. Great argument.

Also have you ever thought that maybe DS2's community wasn't as active because DS2 was an inferior game in all the other departments? The leveling and raiding in WoW are some of the best so far and yet everyone unsubbed because the rest of the game was shit. Just a thought.

[Remilia]

Bloodborne is more linear than DS3. You can kill Nameless King before Vordt if you are skilled enough. You can't kill Martyr Logarius before Gascoigne. Bloodborne was clever with its shortcuts though.

You can't. Nameless King is after Vordt. The only bosses you can kill before Vordt aside from the beginner boss is Dancer, Oceiros, Gundyr Mk2, and Dragon Slayer Armor. You can't proceed to archive before the first 3 lords. Hint, I did the above.

Anri straight sword = OP.

[infinitemeridian]

I mean Soul Memory may have sucked but you were still mostly pitted against people near your level so it was never unfair. There was a diversity of builds, 2 arenas, and you didn't constantly invade into a 3 phantom match.

DS1 was a broken as hell and the only interesting covenant was the Forest Hunters. If we wanna talk about "Havel Monsters" then let's talk about SL1 kids who would get Havels and roflstomp low level areas. Twinking was a serious problem in DS1 and even though it didn't work out, Soul Memory was the answer to that. DS3 just found a more elegant solution to the problem.

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The environments of Bloodborne are fantastic but put tggether they make for a very samey looking game. You basically have a dark forest, a dark city, and a dark building for your 3 archetypes in Bloodborne. Of course Old Hunters being a million times better than the base game in every way fixed that, but that doesn't excuse the base game. Unfortunately I can't blame them too much because Bloodborne is ultimately a horror game and it's hard to have variety in a horror game due to the areas needing to all be dark.

Bloodborne is more linear than DS3. You can kill Nameless King before Vordt if you are skilled enough. You can't kill Martyr Logarius before Gascoigne. Bloodborne was clever with its shortcuts though.

As for bosses, the only boss you named that could contest Nameless King or Soul of Cinder in terms of epicness is Gehrman. I think Bloodborne is more consistent while DS3 has higher highs and lower lows.

In terms of gameplay this is simply subjective. It's like saying Street Fighter is better than Super Smash Bros. They may be fighting games but they are completely different and do their own thing extremely well.

Bloodborne isn't nearly as replayable due to a lack of respec coupled with the fact that certain weapons are super late game. Arcane is useless until you kill Ludwig or Orphan of Kos (which good luck killing those guys early). Same with Bloodtinge. Cainhurst is almost half way through the game at that point and the Bloodletter is pretty late in the DLC as well. I probably would've played Bloodborne a shit ton if there was respeccing and more Blood Rocks available but alas, there isn't and Bloodborne suffers for it in the replayability department in my opinion.

As for music, I think I would agree overall. Ludwig's theme is one of the best boss themes period. Not just in From's games but gaming in general.

I thought the environments in BB were varied enough, yet all had the same theme. My issue with Dark Souls is that you have a generic Ice level, lava level, castle level, and forest level. It just feels like they're going through the motions. The levels are too disconnected and don't seem to carry a common thread like BB.

BB is more linear, but the levels themselves have better level design. Dark Souls has too many open spaces without much going on (Looking at you Anor Londo).

[dope_danny]

Same with Bloodtinge. Cainhurst is almost half way through the game at that point

-start game
-kill gasgcoine
-buy gate unlock
-kill amelia
-open door and head to Iosefkas clinic
-get cainhurst summons
-loot cainhurt for items like reiterpallasch
-start leveling that bloodtinge stat
-proft

You can go do a lot of stuff very early in Bloodborne if you know where to go.

[Remilia]

The main issue with Bloodtinge and Arcane is the lack of knowledge for new players.
Earliest Arcane gem you can get is a Crescent Fire gem you can get in that drop down area from the church tower thing. Fits nicely with some weapons but not a lot of weapons have crescent unless you go into Chalice Dungeons.

After the first playthrough, it was way easier to just zoom around and get what I needed, but that's cause I know what I can do at that point. Also before they patched it you can go straight to Cainhurst by a sequence skip (jump over a fence, lawl).

[dope_danny]

I thought the environments in BB were varied enough, yet all had the same theme. My issue with Dark Souls is that you have a generic Ice level, lava level, castle level, and forest level. It just feels like they're going through the motions. The levels are too disconnected and don't seem to carry a common thread like BB.

BB is more linear, but the levels themselves have better level design. Dark Souls has too many open spaces without much going on (Looking at you Anor Londo).

Yeah thats why i like bloodbourne more levelwise. Yarnham is a city. from central Yarnham to the outlying areas like Hemwick, the woods leading to Burgenwerth and frozen over Forsaken Castle Cainhurst it all feels like the same area. DS3 aint nearly as bad as [insert generic comment about lava landscape floating above poispn windmill here] but its still LAVA LEVEL. ICE LEVEL. POISON LEVEL. like a 90's platformer. Linear environmental theming isn't always bad, especially if the alternative is a roster similar to a map pack for mario kart in terms of unconnected variance.

Irithyll is still great though

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The main issue with Bloodtinge and Arcane is the lack of knowledge for new players.
Earliest Arcane gem you can get is a Crescent Fire gem you can get in that drop down area from the church tower thing. Fits nicely with some weapons but not a lot of weapons have crescent unless you go into Chalice Dungeons.

After the first playthrough, it was way easier to just zoom around and get what I needed, but that's cause I know what I can do at that point. Also before they patched it you can go straight to Cainhurst by a sequence skip (jump over a fence, lawl).

Yeah prior knowledge makes a big difference. The DS3 equivalent would be a proper hex build i think, that can lead right up to getting the crystal chime in the grand archives before you are set.

For example im replaying BB right now to see if i really do enjoy it more than DS3 and its not just rose tinted glasses (so far its not) and immediately when i can i head for the Ludwig greatsword and the firegem along with all the easy twinblood shards from daytime Hypogeon Gaol. The rock paper scissors of fire>arcane>bolt> means that fire gemmed greatsword nukes things like Vicar Amelia, but if you dont know those routes to get the easymoddu items the areas must seem very different.

That and arcane if you dont have an internet connection for your PS4 and no old hunters patch? ech.

[Remilia]

Yeah, I much prefer Bloodborne. It's the weapons, environment, story, bosses, Lovecraft awesomeness, and so on. It legitimately for me takes the top spot. It's the souls type game that took up the most amount of my time.

There are some games that have the rose tinted effects. Games like BB, Super Metroid, Mega man just don't apply when going back for me.

[dope_danny]

Yeah, I much prefer Bloodborne. It's the weapons, environment, story, bosses, Lovecraft awesomeness, and so on. It legitimately for me takes the top spot. It's the souls type game that took up the most amount of my time.

There are some games that have the rose tinted effects. Games like BB, Super Metroid, Mega man just don't apply when going back for me.

I think, and i've seen enough reviews to know its not just my opinion, that the biggest problem with DS3 is simply that its a sequel. Miyazaki is great at conjuring up an idea for a new world using the same system, but not as good when revisiting one hes made already. Considering Artorias was meant to be in the base game The Old Hunters is the only apparent exception to it. He has been given a Kojima style status on a pedestal and you see people like vaati go full "room 237" on his games, but its a shame DS3 suffers because so much of it is "HEY REMEMBER DS1?!?".

Because when you finish the game and look back some of it is so fan servicey its just awful. Like in Lothric castle there is not only a shrine to Solaire while Gwynnevere is long forgotten but they even have Solaires sword in a chest in a nearby room. When you really think about how many eons have passed for it to not only survive but for them to be multiple important cultural points for the people of Lothric -and we are talking about a mentally unbalanced guy designed to be an example of a foolish, directionless adventurer- it feels way more like that was put in because "muh internet sunny D meh may" than some burning desire to bring such a character back through references as a mythical being to these people.
Its just there for you to find and go "oh hey, sunbro!" and sadly theres far too much of that and not enough worldbuilding about Lothric and its surrounding areas. Like what is this "coming age of the deep ocean" Aldritch founded a religion around? if anor londo is now down in a valley has the ocean that a wall separates the farram swamp/oolacile ruins from flooded the abyss in some way? or is it just some wink and nod to the old hunters? Why did the lords bugger off to begin with? the prince makes sense even if its a shallow story and the seigward questline makes you want to know more about yhorm but theres still so much of the current time and place that warranted an answer over references for references sake. Like why was the blood of the wolf driving the abyss watchers feral? was it some connection to the surprisingly few instances of people turning into those mini manus monsters?

I want to hope the DLC gives some story, not even answers per say just in game world story not reference to "a nameless character time has forgotten and you know damn well who we are talking about" constantly. But i'd be lying if i wasnt expecting the DLC just to be the Queen of Lothric who is another daughter of manus based on what we hear of her repeatedly in items and her curious complete absence in game.

I guess when you get down to it almost every none reference met with a "why?" will almost always be answered with a "well, maybe-" and for the last in the series thats simply not good enough writing. It wasn't when DS2 did it and i dont deify Miyazaki enough to completely dismiss it in some exercise in brand loyalty now. Good game, story? kind of dishearteningly absent.

[Poppincaps]

If we wanna talk about an absent story then Bloodborne is the worst. I'm not talking about the lore but the actual main story. There really is none. You're told "Hunt because that's what hunters do." and you just do that until eventually you kill Mergo and end the Nightmare. This creates a lack of real progression in the story because you have no idea what the hell you're working towards until you achieve it.

In Dark Souls you know exactly what you're supposed to do. Ring the bells of awakening. You do that and then you are tasked with tracking down the lord souls and finally you get to face Gwyn. You always know what you're fighting towards. You are constantly accomplishing goals and working towards new ones.

I don't think DS3 does as good of a job as this because your single quest spans the entire game and then it ends so it doesn't really feel like you're achieving goals but it still feels like you're being guided in a clear direction.

The lore of Bloodborne may be really fucking cool but the game's story is pretty much just, "Just play the damn game."

It really astonishes me how Old Hunters literally fixes every single problem that the base game has. At least as much as a DLC can. It's quite clear that you are hunting for the secret that the Old Hunters locked away.

[Jtbrig7390]

If we wanna talk about an absent story then Bloodborne is the worst. I'm not talking about the lore but the actual main story. There really is none. You're told "Hunt because that's what hunters do." and you just do that until eventually you kill Mergo and end the Nightmare. This creates a lack of real progression in the story because you have no idea what the hell you're working towards until you achieve it.

In Dark Souls you know exactly what you're supposed to do. Ring the bells of awakening. You do that and then you are tasked with tracking down the lord souls and finally you get to face Gwyn. You always know what you're fighting towards. You are constantly accomplishing goals and working towards new ones.

I don't think DS3 does as good of a job as this because your single quest spans the entire game and then it ends so it doesn't really feel like you're achieving goals but it still feels like you're being guided in a clear direction.

The lore of Bloodborne may be really fucking cool but the game's story is pretty much just, "Just play the damn game."

It really astonishes me how Old Hunters literally fixes every single problem that the base game has. At least as much as a DLC can. It's quite clear that you are hunting for the secret that the Old Hunters locked away.

For me personally I felt like I was a hitman in Dark Souls III. Like here is a list of lords and now you must go murder them and in the end take the place of the main lord or whatever ending you get.

It have a hitman/checking off a list kind of feel to it.

[dope_danny]

If we wanna talk about an absent story then Bloodborne is the worst. I'm not talking about the lore but the actual main story. There really is none. You're told "Hunt because that's what hunters do." and you just do that until eventually you kill Mergo and end the Nightmare. This creates a lack of real progression in the story because you have no idea what the hell you're working towards until you achieve it.

In Dark Souls you know exactly what you're supposed to do. Ring the bells of awakening. You do that and then you are tasked with tracking down the lord souls and finally you get to face Gwyn. You always know what you're fighting towards. You are constantly accomplishing goals and working towards new ones.

I don't think DS3 does as good of a job as this because your single quest spans the entire game and then it ends so it doesn't really feel like you're achieving goals but it still feels like you're being guided in a clear direction.

The lore of Bloodborne may be really fucking cool but the game's story is pretty much just, "Just play the damn game."

It really astonishes me how Old Hunters literally fixes every single problem that the base game has. At least as much as a DLC can. It's quite clear that you are hunting for the secret that the Old Hunters locked away.

You are repeatedly given different goals in bloodborne "go out and hunt" is just to ensure you get a point of insight in some fashion at the start. Be it from one of 2 possible madmans knowledge around the sewers or by encountering the Cleric Beast as you gain 1 point upon witnessing anything releated to the great ones wether you beat it or not, thus waking the Doll. Then you get things like "go get a chalice to open the dungeons" or "go to the church to get the password" or "go to hemwick crossing and wait for a ride to cainhurst". In dark souls 3 you have one fetch quest. That is your story. Fetch these 4 maguffins, now go link the fire.

and thats before any actual comparison to the story of bergenwerth, the healing church, mensis and the pthumerians. Let alone the dlc. Or the environmental storytelling like the empty prams leading a trail from central Yarnham to the upper wards because the Choir are using newborns to lure down the Great Ones. Or actual cutscenes and character dialogue telling you about things like 'the old blood' and letters left around talking about when Old Yharnam was burned, to stop the nightmare you need to silence an infants cry and so on. You are not only told repeatedly what your objectives are but they dont just show up like Yhorm sitting on his ass in empty room. Things like the Nightmare of Mensis are teased right after Gasgoine with "the spider of mensis has hidden our master" and wouldnt you know it you meet a certain spider who knows the location of the Amygdala and gives you the tonsil stone with direct, specific locations of which building to go to and so on. Which is a little more well thought out than "here he is. Grab the storm ruler. GG, no RE". There are a lot of points where you can go in multiple directions in Bloodbourne, but the only way you dont know what you are doing is if you dont pay attention to things like why Alfred shows up to talk about the vilebloods when you can access the path to Iosefkas clinic, its a more obtuse example but compared to DS3's "every npc has 3 lines of dialogue and one secret one" its a lot less shallow and aimless than you seem to remember it being.


I'd very much recommend replaying Bloodbourne to compare and contrast. Its a pretty big difference and you sound like its been a while.

[barackopala]

Man i'm sad that i'm more interested in spending money on Overwatch than buying dlc for DS3, maybe is because the game STILL PERFORMS LIKE SHEET on my pc or because i dont consider DS3 as much of a good game i would've expected it to be.

[Djriff]

Man i'm sad that i'm more interested in spending money on Overwatch than buying dlc for DS3, maybe is because the game STILL PERFORMS LIKE SHEET on my pc or because i dont consider DS3 as much of a good game i would've expected it to be.

What don't you like about the game?

[Tech614]

What don't you like about the game?

I will never touch the game again after I beat the PC version once and obtain platinum in ps4 version(which will be tonight).

It's not that it's a bad game but I see very little reason to replay it.

To play the same builds I have already done in previous games? Pass.

To kill the mostly forgettable boss fights? Pass.

I will play the DLC after the fact, but that is all. Highly doubtful the DLC ever gives me any reason to replay it either.

Truthfully it was the same way with DS2 as well. Demon's Souls as well. The only 2 soulsborne series I have put more effort into past the platinum trophy and dlc is bloodborne and dark souls 1. Why? Because they are vastly superior in boss and world design to the rest.

Dark Souls 3 is/will be on of the best games of 2016, but it has the unfortunate company of being only a year removed from bloodborne and if I'm going to replay something it would likely be Bloodborne as I feel it's a vastly superior game in every shape and form outside of build customization.

To sum up my major gripes with the game...

Only 2 boss fights I think are well done twin princes and unnamed king

Unnecessary fan service almost like the game is looking for cheap pops Anor Londo especially, It was obvious Irithyll is Anor Londo / the town below Anor Londo upon entering it and I was fine with that. I didn't need the cheap bullshit of actually going to anor londo proper only for it to be a small area you can 100% clear in 20 mins

Overall these are things new players will not gripe with as they won't notice the rehashed boss mechanics or the lame fan service pop attempts, but they are serious eye sores to veterans of the series. This again doesn't make DS3 a bad game, but makes it the unfortunate brother who came too fast and will get ignored because of it's hand me down assets and mechanics.