J. Allen Brack's community engagement post

[Klingers]

Original post here.

We wanted to let you know that we’ve been closely following the Nostalrius discussion and we appreciate your constructive thoughts and suggestions.

Our silence on this subject definitely doesn’t reflect our level of engagement and passion around this topic. We hear you. Many of us across Blizzard and the WoW Dev team have been passionate players ever since classic WoW. In fact, I personally work at Blizzard because of my love for classic WoW.

We have been discussing classic servers for years - it’s a topic every BlizzCon - and especially over the past few weeks. From active internal team discussions to after-hours meetings with leadership, this subject has been highly debated. Some of our current thoughts:

Why not just let Nostalrius continue the way it was? The honest answer is, failure to protect against intellectual property infringement would damage Blizzard’s rights. This applies to anything that uses WoW’s IP, including unofficial servers. And while we’ve looked into the possibility – there is not a clear legal path to protect Blizzard’s IP and grant an operating license to a pirate server.

We explored options for developing classic servers and none could be executed without great difficulty. If we could push a button and all of this would be created, we would. However, there are tremendous operational challenges to integrating classic servers, not to mention the ongoing support of multiple live versions for every aspect of WoW.

So what can we do to capture that nostalgia of when WoW first launched? Over the years we have talked about a “pristine realm”. In essence that would turn off all leveling acceleration including character transfers, heirloom gear, character boosts, Recruit-A-Friend bonuses, WoW Token, and access to cross realm zones, as well as group finder. We aren’t sure whether this version of a clean slate is something that would appeal to the community and it’s still an open topic of discussion.

One other note - we’ve recently been in contact with some of the folks who operated Nostalrius. They obviously care deeply about the game, and we look forward to more conversations with them in the coming weeks.

You, the Blizzard community, are the most dedicated, passionate players out there. We thank you for your constructive thoughts and suggestions. We are listening.

J. Allen Brack

Not much to say here, but I had a couple of points.

a) It's good to see Blizzard acknowledging that some behind-the-scenes discussion has been had with the Nost guys. They definitely weren't on the same level as your average skeevy for-profit server runners and Blizzard seems to realise that.

b) Bit of a personal opinion as well as a question: Was the issue specifically access to vanilla servers, or was it the feel of vanilla people wanted back? i.e. If current WoW was more community focused, if the world felt bigger still, if Blizzard could pull their heads out of their arses and scrap anything and everything related to clicking any kind of table or variant of a table, would people still be clamouring so hard for vanilla?

Basically I guess my question is could Blizzard meet players in the middle just by making the current game feel like achievements (as in personal goals met in-game like completely super-hard quests or beating content, not achievement points) matter more? Is the answer just scrapping some of the WoD-era design philosophies and moving more towards questgivers and actual server communities? Thoughts?

[Amerissis]

Oh, interesting. I like the idea of a pristine server. I'd never play on one personally, but I think it would please a lot of people that want LFG, leveling perks, heirlooms etc. to be removed. It would create a real server community again and people seem to miss that, at least some of them. I hope they will implement this, it might even lead the way to more (and different) specialized servers. Maybe one without LFR and/or without flying, so people who want that can play like that and leave us LFR-er and/or flyers alone

[Klingers]

Oh, interesting. I like the idea of a pristine server. I'd never play on one personally, but I think it would please a lot of people that want LFG, leveling perks, heirlooms etc. to be removed. It would create a real server community again and people seem to miss that, at least some of them. I hope they will implement this, it might even lead the way to more (and different) specialized servers. Maybe one without LFR and/or without flying, so people who want that can play like that and leave us LFR-er and/or flyers alone

Good points, but I'm wondering is it even the type of server? Could Blizzard and the community both get what they want just by making future/current content more geared towards getting out in the world and discovering stuff organically, being forced to group up to do stuff, removing menu-driven gameplay etc?

Do you think that would cut out the need for a pristine server? Are people wanting more to do AQ/Nax or are they just wanting to have a thrill of discovery, reward for effort and community back?

[Deleted]

Pristine servers will not safisfy Vanilla/TBC/WotlK players even in the slightest. I played on Nostalrius and the differences are not even remotely solved by removing xp gains from heirlooms and potions.
The entire game and world was different. Questing was MUCH slower back then. -this doesen't have to do with xp differences or anything else but rather the fact that there was 3-4x as many quests back then than before cataclysm.
Another important point was the no LFD/LFR/LFBG, if you wanted to make a group for something, you would have to communicate with other people to do so. And if you wanted to queue for a specific battleground you would have to find a NPC that would allow you to queue for that battleground.
Then there is the entire skill/talent tree debate and the design philosophies of making classes more unique and niche (rogues with lockpicking in certain dungeons as an example)
The flow of dungeon and raiding content was vastly different. In current wow you can faceroll any dungeon in 20 minutes (with or without heirlooms). Back in the day you could spend 4-5 hours in BRD doing quests and you would not be able to do this without having a good group and CC. Not to mention the fact that the threat mechanic would obliterate you if you didnt pay attention.

There are MANY things i didn't even mention about the differences but my point is this: WoW changed slightly over a long period of time. Personally i feel like the downfall started with Flying in TBC but this isn't usally mentioned because of the upsides to the expansion. Another one is the LFD Implimentation in late Wotlk that people also rarely mention because of how amazing the expansion had been, and how late it was implimented.

[Charge me Doctor]

Pristine servers will not safisfy Vanilla/TBC/WotlK players even in the slightest. I played on Nostalrius and the differences are not even remotely solved by removing xp gains from heirlooms and potions.
The entire game and world was different. Questing was MUCH slower back then. -this doesen't have to do with xp differences or anything else but rather the fact that there was 3-4x as many quests back then than before cataclysm.
Another important point was the no LFD/LFR/LFBG, if you wanted to make a group for something, you would have to communicate with other people to do so. And if you wanted to queue for a specific battleground you would have to find a NPC that would allow you to queue for that battleground.
Then there is the entire skill/talent tree debate and the design philosophies of making classes more unique and niche (rogues with lockpicking in certain dungeons as an example)

The most fun thing IMO is that i've been playing Pristine servers already. You just don't use all these features he mentioned and sell green gear from quests, use only crafted, randomly dropped and blue quest gear

[TyrianFC]

We players do NOT want blizzard devoting tons of resources to implement and support an obsolete, archaic version of the game - merely to placate a few nostalgic extremists, who cant seem to switch off their rose-tinted glasses.

[MoanaLisa]

The most fun thing IMO is that i've been playing Pristine servers already. You just don't use all these features he mentioned and sell green gear from quests, use only crafted, randomly dropped and blue quest gear

It's very difficult to escape the fast leveling though unless you make a ton of trips to a capitol to turn your XP on and off. I'd probably play on a pristine server just for this.

[Lionhearte0]

Whatever they say, it will change nothing what people feel and end no discussion. Also people will insist on their view and call whatever Blizzard says bullshit, reducing it to the line "if some basement dwellers could do it, then Blizzard should be able to"

That really is a solid point, though.

[Amerissis]

We players do NOT want blizzard devoting tons of resources to support an archaic version of the game - to placate a few nostalgic extremists who cant seem to switch off their rose-tinted glasses.

And they won't. But pristine realms is a different thing altogether. That could just be updated and maintained like any other realm, so no extra resources needed there.

[Deleted]

Whatever they say, it will change nothing what people feel and end no discussion. Also people will insist on their view and call whatever Blizzard says bullshit, reducing it to the line "if some basement dwellers could do it, then Blizzard should be able to"

No, because the emulation software is nowhere near what the original servers would be. But they could figure a way out to get the most popular servers of each expansion under their hood. Make them form a company, buy it and then they have the legal right to use the IP and they had offical legacy-servers. Maybe not through BNet like their servers, but they can offer it as an option.

[Super Kami Dende]

but rather the fact that there was 3-4x as many quests back then than before cataclysm.

Actually, there are more quests in Azeroth post-shattering than there was in Classic. But since they are more streamlined and don't require you to run to 7 different corners of every area every 3 quests people often assume there is less. When in fact it is just less time consuming, not less Quests.

Most areas also now have a overarching storyline in each region, instead of just random sporadic quests.

[Deleted]

We players do NOT want blizzard devoting tons of resources to implement and support an obsolete, archaic version of the game - merely to placate a few nostalgic extremists, who cant seem to switch off their rose-tinted glasses.

But since there is a huge debate about it; We clearly do.

And you do NOT speak for all players.

On Topic:
I'm not sure how to feel about this tbh, many things that I dislike about current WoW is based on story, art direction and lore (as well as the issue with how simplified the game is), but that might just be me. I find most of the new story and lore to be cringe and bad, sadly 50% of why I play a game is because of lore. But It's nice to get some form of response from Blizz and a acknowledgement that they are actually addressing what people want, a better game.

[Deleted]

It's interesting that they've commented this while the case is still ongoing. I was expecting a public statement once the legal proceedings have been dealt with.

Anyhow, confirms the fact that there are huge operational issues trying to make a commercial service out of old vanilla wow (as compared to couple of guys running a pirate server off their basement). Hopefully that finally puts the final nail into the coffin of all the people who think these two are directly comparable. They're not.

I find it interesting that they've explored the path of legally licensing the service to a third party. I guess the end product is too complicated/expensive, it's not worth exploring further. License deals often are.

I think 'pristine realm' might be a good compromise. While it's not "vanilla" - it still tries to capture the feeling of 'leveling is tedious and hard', which is what I guess most people are after on the pserver realms. I'm still not entirely sure the paying market is there, but it doesn't seem like the effort wouldn't impact the main product too much. But it would be maintained and would follow the tech architecture of the rest of the product - so it seems a bit like a 'win-win' for both sides.
It's interesting option and I hope they explore it further.

[Marmot]

At least it's a sincere post on Blizzard's behalf. They are right about the hurdles they'd need to jump through, and it is interesting that they are talking to the individuals that ran Nostalrius. I think it's definitely worth keeping a close eye on over the coming weeks/months.

[Deleted]

I think 'pristine realm' might be a good compromise. While it's not "vanilla" - it still tries to capture the feeling of 'leveling is tedious and hard', which is what I guess most people are after on the pserver realms. I'm still not entirely sure the paying market is there, but it doesn't seem like the effort wouldn't impact the main product too much. But it would be maintained and would follow the tech architecture of the rest of the product - so it seems a bit like a 'win-win' for both sides.
It's interesting option and I hope they explore it further.

It's just not the leveling, I want to point out that raiding, PvP and the long road to get geared also have a huge part, as well as professions and other things that kept us occupied even after lvl 60.

[Deleted]

17th thread about this. Cool fucking story.

[Bellabel]

We players do NOT want blizzard devoting tons of resources to implement and support an obsolete, archaic version of the game - merely to placate a few nostalgic extremists, who cant seem to switch off their rose-tinted glasses.

You make it sound as if Blizz is pouring their attention into WOW, hahaha. Come on man, they've made development moves in the game for years to make it easier to make content not create original unqiue content.

#transmog
#OneweaponLegion
#Garrisons
#LFR
so on and so on.

[TyrianFC]

But since there is a huge debate about it; We clearly do.

And you do NOT speak for all players.

On Topic:
I'm not sure how to feel about this tbh, many things that I dislike about current WoW is based on story, art direction and lore (as well as the issue with how simplified the game is), but that might just be me. I find most of the new story and lore to be cringe and bad, sadly 50% of why I play a game is because of lore. But It's nice to get some form of response from Blizz and a acknowledgement that they are actually addressing what people want, a better game.

The 'debate' basically is a bunch of cheapskate players trying to convince adults why they think things they like in the world should be free. They care less about the fact its vanilla-wow state, and more about the fact they dont have to pay a dime to play it. Thats why Blizzard wont give them Vanilla realms, because we all know they wont actually.... you know... want to pay a subscription to access them.

[Bellabel]

The 'debate' basically is a bunch of cheapskate players who think that things they like in the world should be free. They care less about the fact its vanilla-wow state, and more about the fact they dont have to pay a dime to play it. Thats why Blizzard wont give them Vanilla realms, because we all know they wont actually.... you know... want to pay a subscription to access them.

Nice strawman brother, but you forget most of the legacy server advocates played well into Cata from vanilla. You think that paying for a game for 8 years and later going to a free vanilla server was driven by money?

[Deleted]

It's just not the leveling, I want to point out that raiding, PvP and the long road to get geared also have a huge part, as well as professions and other things that kept us occupied even after lvl 60.

Yes, I should have probably said " the vanilla experience is more about the journey than the actual end-game" - sorry, it was a bit hastily formulated.
But a realm like that would actually create a interesting pivot point - the people who care about the end-game would have their "fast leveling" bells and whistles - straight into raids and end-game content.

And the people who care about the long journey would have their very own progression.

But all in the same, modern server/support architeture - so it wouldn't cost so much resources/upkeep.
I think that's what people are asking for mostly, right?