[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Vanyali]

Demonic appetite is not the best talent on demon boss like Krosus?

DA is broken this build to not cleave off frags, but if it works like Helya they're irretrievable.

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I do think these two pulled a pretty key problem with momentum to the front though - on certain fights, you just can't do it. That's okay for a dungeon, but not so much for a raid.

Within 8 yards of the tank on Star Augar? Cya. Don't have mobility for Shatter / Fel Nova? Pain-train. Which means if you mess up the cancelling even once you're dead, and all because you have to dash around like a crazed fool. It's a skill-bar, sure.. but the other talents *need* to be competitive if that's gonna be the case.

Krosus is even worse, because you lag a little and you fly off the edge and instantly die. And you can't really strafe because you'll strafe into tank mechanics / aoe mechanics.

[Dopefreshx]

I avoided prepared & momentum today as well and just played DA, FA, Nemesis & Demonic. The whole playstyle of spamming FR/VR & cancelling them just doesn't feel like something that belongs in this game at all, I'm really hoping they make some big changes concerning it.

I thought the first boss was great for a mid-level heroic. Logs are set to private so I can't link them, but even with chaos strike crits not refunding DH is looking mighty fine. This was one of our attempts until enrage...
Damage - http://i.imgur.com/q7D81zx.png
Breakdown - http://i.imgur.com/CJ2Tvbf.png

Krosus logs are bugged but it was basically like hitting a target dummy anyway, nothing to really do. Will link them later when they get re-uploaded or something.

edit: What is the DA bug this patch exactly? Seemed to be working ok for me. Maybe I'm missing something though.

[Vanyali]

DA works on Annihilation, but not Chaos Strike from all I've done with it this patch; same goes for the refund. And maybe even Fel Barrage charges.. something just got screwball with Chaos Strike

[Warstar]

DA works on Annihilation, but not Chaos Strike from all I've done with it this patch; same goes for the refund. And maybe even Fel Barrage charges.. something just got screwball with Chaos Strike

Chaos strike out?

I know Unanilnomen loves my bad puns >.>

[Vanyali]

Chaos strike out?

I know Unanilnomen loves my bad puns >.>

I hate you.




Another thing to note as I'm looking over logs a bit.. without the refund on chaos strike criticals the crit.. doesn't matter that much. Kazqt was using both rings with gems and I was still keeping up or beating him with a non-momentum build, which is surprising.

[Dopefreshx]

DA works on Annihilation, but not Chaos Strike

That makes sense, I was getting about 60 fury a minute which is a little on the low side (Should be almost double?).

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Chaos strike out?

I know Unanilnomen loves my bad puns >.>

how dare you tie my name to such a terrible pun. Consider your cow dishonored.
@Vanyali , wouldn't it still have some extra value in the extra crit damage for CS from the artifact? Maybe not a crazy amount, but it's still... something? I guess?

[Vanyali]

how dare you tie my name to such a terrible pun. Consider your cow dishonored.
@Vanyali , wouldn't it still have some extra value in the extra crit damage for CS from the artifact? Maybe not a crazy amount, but it's still... something? I guess?

Yessss but not nearly to the degree it was prior, and 15% just on crits is.. meh. The other one (just flat damage increase) is much better, as is any other talent that just increases ALL damage (crits included). It's not worthless, but it's not all that amazing either.

That said though, with haste being wonky past the cap (if we can get there) and mastery scaling being so low, it'd still be the best stat, just not inflated to being the same level as agility.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Yessss but not nearly to the degree it was prior, and 15% just on crits is.. meh. The other one (just flat damage increase) is much better, as is any other talent that just increases ALL damage (crits included). It's not worthless, but it's not all that amazing either.

That said though, with haste being wonky past the cap (if we can get there) and mastery scaling being so low, it'd still be the best stat, just not inflated to being the same level as agility.

gotcha. And that's just in the event that crit doesn't refund Fury like how it's bugged currently, right?

[Vanyali]

gotcha. And that's just in the event that crit doesn't refund Fury like how it's bugged currently, right?

mhmmm. it still does for annihilation, which would also push it up a little.. but again, not as insane

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

mhmmm. it still does for annihilation, which would also push it up a little.. but again, not as insane

Question for you (testers, actually), does taking Fel Eruption increase the value of Mastery now that it's (supposed to be) dealing Chaos damage? I think i might've asked this question before, but i'm far too lazy and busy to look back to see if i did. Looking at logs, it deals an *absurd* amount of damage. Totally expecting a nerf there.

[Etrnlaffair]

Man. These logs are impossible to look at now that everyone is wearing stupid broken gear...

[Vanyali]

Man. These logs are impossible to look at now that everyone is wearing stupid broken gear...

Only Katzqt was of the demon hunters, I believe. No other class matters but #thepurpleline

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Question for you (testers, actually), does taking Fel Eruption increase the value of Mastery now that it's (supposed to be) dealing Chaos damage? I think i might've asked this question before, but i'm far too lazy and busy to look back to see if i did. Looking at logs, it deals an *absurd* amount of damage. Totally expecting a nerf there.

nooo math questions for me D;

if it's still scaling horribly i'd say probably not though, because of the sheer amount you'd need.

[Etrnlaffair]

I meant others specifically. Lol. A friend of mine linked me the one you were in today. And the destro lock was top. But clearly in broken gear. He has been all blah because he keeps linking me logs where Elemental is near the bottom in dps when a lot of people are just abusing the gear. So it's not even helping testing.

I was watching Jinzee some earlier raid testing. The top like 10 dps had broken gear. And they killed the boss. That does nothing for testing bosses... It's just overpowering through it.

nooo math questions for me D;

if it's still scaling horribly i'd say probably not though, because of the sheer amount you'd need.[/QUOTE]

[Dopefreshx]

That does nothing for testing bosses... It's just overpowering through it.

It's not great for class balancing, but it's really nice to be able to get into the later phases of the fight to see everything, especially now that mythic bosses are being tested. They did mention that the OP gear is fixed in the next alpha build though, so there is that.

[Sangomah]

As Long as eye beam is the only way to proc demonic it Will be a good legendary to have.

That Said, the ring is def the best right now

[Keltas]

As Long as eye beam is the only way to proc demonic it Will be a good legendary to have.

That Said, the ring is def the best right now

Well the problem is that the cooldown reduction is basically negligible single target.


I'm just concerned that our ring is our ONLY single target option, and the rest are all flat AoE modifiers, yet other classes get unique effects that are interesting (like the hardcast pyro for extra damage one). The others might not all be amazing, but they're a lot cooler than ours, which all literally just state "your AoE does more when it hits more targets".

We couldn't get any "fun" legendaries? Idk off the top of my head but like, throw glaive only hits one target, but deals triple damage? Something that would be interesting to equip.

Even just bringing back those boots, where enemies would be marked somewhere in their back 180 degrees. hitting that spot did extra damage. I actually really liked that concept, made me feel like I'd be playing my ffxiv ninja.

[Raiju]

Well the problem is that the cooldown reduction is basically negligible single target.

I wouldn't say negligible. 15-20% off is negligible now?

I'm just concerned that our ring is our ONLY single target option, and the rest are all flat AoE modifiers, yet other classes get unique effects that are interesting (like the hardcast pyro for extra damage one). The others might not all be amazing, but they're a lot cooler than ours, which all literally just state "your AoE does more when it hits more targets".

I've seen a lot of terrible ones given I'm coming from enhancement. Unless you consider useless ghostwolf ones fun. Also, just because it ALSO buffs aoe doesn't mean it isn't a single target boost.

[Baelroc]

I wouldn't say negligible. 15-20% off is negligible now?

Which is like, what, 6-7 seconds off? (I'm not even sure it would be that high, unsure of how many ticks we get) 6 seconds off a 45 second CD is pretty lackluster IMO, especially on an ability in single target that is only 6-9% of our total damage done. Whereas in AoE, its fantastic.

[Raiju]

Which is like, what, 6-7 seconds off? (I'm not even sure it would be that high, unsure of how many ticks we get) 6 seconds off a 45 second CD is pretty lackluster IMO, especially on an ability in single target that is only 6-9% of our total damage done. Whereas in AoE, its fantastic.

That ability is what gives a significant amount of your annihilates.