Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[kensim]

Actually my oldest is about to level their first character with me for the first time. I am surprising him with Blizzcon this year. All three of my kids watch HOTS ESL streams with me, my daughter and I watch athe least a match a night on YouTube, we are Cloud9 fans.

Read my second post, I don't want to LFR. It's boring. I want hardcore players to have a hardcore path. Lastly genres change and single player games end. Also none of those are Warcraft.

If Blizzard gave a casual solo path and an unrelated unrequired hardcore path, would you care? How does it affect you?

[Marakesh]

Actually my oldest is about to level their first character with me for the first time. I am surprising him with Blizzcon this year. All three of my kids watch HOTS ESL streams with me, my daughter and I watch athe least a match a night on YouTube, we are Cloud9 fans.

Read my second post, I don't want to LFR. It's boring. I want hardcore players to have a hardcore path. Lastly genres change and single player games end. Also none of those are Warcraft.

If Blizzard gave a casual solo path and an unrelated unrequired hardcore path, would you care? How does it affect you?

The thing is, the more mmo dev's make their games for everyone, the less people stick around. Its great your son likes the game, but given how many longtime players I see posting, I have to wonder why the game keeps tanking. Where's the new wave?

I'm not sure what the casual solo path and the hardcore path are. I find the easy and linear questing in Cata and MoP mind numbing. Didn't care for LFR or what I heard about garrisons. I like the way vanilla felt like a real world. I doubt I would get a game that doesn't run on tracks from a pristine realm. Maybe if they upped mob's health and damage I'd think about it, but I can't say I've seen any real changes about Legion that make me want to resub live.

[Sansnom]

Absolutely hit the nail on the head. These games work best when you are required to be part of a group and socialize. The genre has been mutating into this super casual single-player experience and there's already tons of that on the market.

Sounds fine in theory, but you need to make the experience to group simple, fast, and above all, other people to be friendly and courteous. If you require people to spend time to find a group then they may as not play at all.

Example ever tried to find groups for low level dungeons? Old raids before LFD? That is what is going to happen because for new players coming in, or people leveling alt, they probably spend just much time, or even more, to find people. I tried finding people for group quests when they were around long after the initial rush. There were hardly anyone around to do them.

As for people being friendly to others, if you have a solution to this, I love to hear. I have some very nice people to group with, I also met people on the other side of scale where they just berate everyone just about everything.

[Bellabel]

Sounds fine in theory, but you need to make the experience to group simple, fast, and above all, other people to be friendly and courteous. If you require people to spend time to find a group then they may as not play at all.

Example ever tried to find groups for low level dungeons? Old raids before LFD? That is what is going to happen because for new players coming in, or people leveling alt, they probably spend just much time, or even more, to find people. I tried finding people for group quests when they were around long after the initial rush. There were hardly anyone around to do them.

As for people being friendly to others, if you have a solution to this, I love to hear. I have some very nice people to group with, I also met people on the other side of scale where they just berate everyone just about everything.

I guess the first 4 years of wow must've had so very few dungeons attempted let alone completed due to the lack of party tools.

[kary]

Yes calling everyone stupid as shit is a great way to start a conversation. And you want to talk about being social.

Lol, why would I want to make friends with entitled crybabies that made a 1k+ page thread stomping their feet and whining that they can't get their own way?
It wouldn't work out.

[Derpling]

And isn't it great that the current game caters to you in that way? The problem is that it doesn't for a big population that wants vanilla servers. And no one would force people to play on these Legacy servers.

"Big population" being an extremely relative term.

[Dacien]

Has anyone linked Boogie's recent video yet? If not, I will. He does a fantastic job explaining how Vanilla WoW got its hooks into him, and why it doesn't today. He also mentions Everquest, which is another MMO that got its hooks into him. It did for me as well back in the 90's, and today I play on a "Classic" Everquest server, and have been for a year now. Most of the players on my server have been there for years. Trust me when I say that you do not play Classic Everquest unless you enjoy the game. Classic Everquest is as hardcore as it gets in MMOs, and we average about 1,200 players online at any given time. Despite the difficulty, despite the lack of convenience, despite the lack of streamlining, something is there that hooks you in, and Vanilla WoW has those exact same hooks. If 1,200 players play blocky, pixellated, soul-crushingly unforgiving Classic Everquest, it's no surprise that Vanilla WoW attracted 10 times that. They both have the same qualities, which Boogie lays out very well.

It's truly surprising that Blizzard has not already gotten ahead of this and capitalized on it, and even more surprising that Blizzard has been against the idea for so long. I was hoping for a much more encouraging message this week, as I would love to start my journey on a sanctioned Vanilla Realm. The desire is going to be there; I'm already witnessing the "new" Nostralius server that everyone online is so excited about. And these people do not want anything less than Classic WoW.

Anyway, I encourage you to watch Boogie's video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n2LsGqSzcU

[ls-]

Has anyone linked Boogie's recent video yet? If not, I will. He does a fantastic job explaining how Vanilla WoW got its hooks into him, and why it doesn't today. He also mentions Everquest, which is another MMO that got its hooks into him. It did for me as well back in the 90's, and today I play on a "Classic" Everquest server, and have been for a year now. Most of the players on my server have been there for years. Trust me when I say that you do not play Classic Everquest unless you enjoy the game. Classic Everquest is as hardcore as it gets in MMOs, and we average about 1,200 players online at any given time. Despite the difficulty, despite the lack of convenience, despite the lack of streamlining, something is there that hooks you in, and Vanilla WoW has those exact same hooks. If 1,200 players play blocky, pixellated, soul-crushingly unforgiving Classic Everquest, it's no surprise that Vanilla WoW attracted 10 times that. They both have the same qualities, which Boogie lays out very well.

It's truly surprising that Blizzard has not already gotten ahead of this and capitalized on it, and even more surprising that Blizzard has been against the idea for so long. I was hoping for a much more encouraging message this week, as I would love to start my journey on a sanctioned Vanilla Realm. The desire is going to be there; I'm already witnessing the "new" Nostralius server that everyone online is so excited about. And these people do not want anything less than Classic WoW.

Anyway, I encourage you to watch Boogie's video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n2LsGqSzcU

Maybe because blizz did their maths and came to conclusion that demand isn't as big as people tend to believe, and they won't make (enough) profit?

[Dacien]

Maybe because blizz did their maths and came to conclusion that demand isn't as big as people tend to believe, and they won't make (enough) profit?

Well the demand is consistent and sizable. There's a huge private server black market, with hundreds of thousands of players collectively. This isn't just Nost we're talking about; there are dozens upon dozens of these servers. So I think the numbers are there. So what surprises me is that Blizzard did not see this going on for years and years and form a plan to capitalize on it, the way EQ did with their own progressive servers, and other MMO's have done. When Sony Online Entertainment sold Everquest, it became the property of, as Boogie puts it, a "skeleton crew" at Daybreak Game Company. They still managed to push out their own classic progression servers. Now, Everquest is arguably simpler code, but WoW has some of the best programmers in the business. If they wanted to, I believe they could produce a legacy server.

I just can't fathom that a legacy server with so much potential cash flow, and sustained cash flow (legacy players are not the type to jump ship in one month's time. They know what they're getting into, that's the whole point. Some players who are curious about it may come and go, but the legacy crowd at it's core is going to be playing for an appreciable amount of time), hasn't been capitalized on. MMO's with lesser subscriber numbers have cashed in on it, so it's hard to believe that business reasons alone are keeping Blizzard out of the market.

[Darkeon]

Maybe because blizz did their maths and came to conclusion that demand isn't as big as people tend to believe, and they won't make (enough) profit?

Or maybe they gathered, discussed an even more profitable way to milk the playerbase, by toggling off certain features, keeping the same content and while (with the "No-Token" talk, I can only assume different subscription based) getting an extra subscription from who fancies playing WoD 2.0: Less QoL version.

And I don't blame them. That's quite a profitable move~

-

If I was in charge of McDonalds menu and, when asked for a vegetarian meal, I'd just take out the burger and kept the rest exactly as it is, I'd be patting myself on the back too!

[Bellabel]

Maybe because blizz did their maths and came to conclusion that demand isn't as big as people tend to believe, and they won't make (enough) profit?

Its doubtful thats the case. Primarliy due to three reasons.

#1 Time, the longer they take to make a legacy server the more it will cost with the natural increase in pay,benefits, retirement packages, etc etc. If they calculate cost they'd know the sooner they do it the more they save. Even if they do not release the servers they still save money until they do release it. With the natural progression of markets this game will be dead and when it dies they will be scrambling to make legacy servers, at a horrendous cost. Leaving me to beleive they haven't made a legit evaluation of cost.

#2 Development teams hubris. The dev teams that created the prime of wow have long been moved away. Either to new projects, retired, or left. The new teams in charge of wow do not believe people can handle a classic MMO becuse a 12 year old game can't be as good as what they've done to it today.

#3 Lack of vision, when was was first being designed it nearly died a number of times in its infancy but a number of internal visionaires pushed the project to completion. This lack of vision leads management and devs to do the same old things, unable to take risk.

[ls-]

Well the demand is consistent and sizable. There's a huge private server black market, with hundreds of thousands of players collectively. This isn't just Nost we're talking about; there are doznes upon dozens of these servers. So I think the numbers are there. So what surprises me is that Blizzard did not see this going on for years and years and form a plan to capitalize on it, the way EQ did with their own progressive servers, and other MMO's have done. When Sony Online Entertainment sold Everquest, it became the property of, as Boogie puts it, a "skeleton crew" at Daybreak Game Company. They still managed to push out their own classic progression servers. Now, Everquest is arguably simpler code, but WoW has some of the best programmers in the business. If they wanted to, I believe they could produce a legacy server.

I just can't fathom that a legacy server with so much potential cash flow, and sustained cash flow (legacy players are not the type to jump ship in one month's time. They know what they're getting into, that's the whole point. Some players who are curious about it may come and go, but the legacy crowd at it's core is going to be playing for an appreciable amount of time), hasn't been capitalized on. MMO's with lesser subscriber numbers have cashed in on it, so it's hard to believe that business reasons alone are keeping Blizzard out of the market.

TBH, it simply may be yet another case of vocal minority. Once again, may be the case, not is the case. Many people tend to think that their opinion is the opinion of majority.

This time it's worse thanks to streamers, cuz streamers need to make money, and negative discussions generate much more views and income, than talking about something positive. Can't say anything good about their followers either, many of them worship streamers like gods and take everything they say as absolute truth. If they say vanilla was good, blizz are greedy bastards, many people, who aren't even interested in WoW may and will start preaching same shit.

Blizz definitely continuously monitor the market.

[Dormie]

Obviously not you though, considering you can't figure out where the burden of proof is in this discussion. Pro tip: on you ;]


Anyway... there's another "no" to add to the "wall of NO" ;D

/thread, I guess? ;>

No it's not.

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Maybe because blizz did their maths and came to conclusion that demand isn't as big as people tend to believe, and they won't make (enough) profit?

Then I'm sure Blizzard won't mind sharing all of their extensive research....or even mentioning any of it..

[ls-]

Or maybe they gathered, discussed an even more profitable way to milk the playerbase, by toggling off certain features, keeping the same content and while (with the "No-Token" talk, I can only assume different subscription based) getting an extra subscription from who fancies playing WoD 2.0: Less QoL version.

And I don't blame them. That's quite a profitable move~

Well, that's what I said. From their pov, recreating vanilla isn't profitable enough, it's expensive and time-consuming process, "pristine servers" may have potential though. May have potential, but may not

If I was in charge of McDonalds menu and, when asked for a vegetarian meal, I'd just take out the burger and kept the rest exactly as it is, I'd be patting myself on the back too!

There are vegetarian meals in maccas though.

- - - Updated - - -

Then I'm sure Blizzard won't mind sharing all of their extensive research....or even mentioning any of it..

Why would they? This kind of things is almost NEVER shared w/ outsiders.

[Deleted]

If i don't play on Vanilla private servers for 2 days i was promised a reward by the queen of my social group.

I must do it

[Dacien]

TBH, it simply may be yet another case of vocal minority. Once again, may be the case, not is the case. Many people tend to think that their opinion is the opinion of majority.

This time it's worse thanks to streamers, cuz streamers need to make money, and negative discussions generate much more views and income, than talking about something positive. Can't say anything good about their followers either, many of them worship streamers like gods and take everything they say as absolute truth. If they say vanilla was good, blizz are greedy bastards, many people, who aren't even interested in WoW may and will start preaching same shit.

Blizz definitely continuously monitor the market.

Well, I do know that there are quantifiable populations, populations that dwarf the other MMO's who have gone legacy/progression many times over. It's just disappointing, that's all. I'm a little bummed. I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 1. Love everything they've done, brought an immense amount of joy into my life. I know it's a little sappy, but Blizzard truly is a great company, and I really want to play Vanilla WoW

[Addict]

Well, I do know that there are quantifiable populations, populations that dwarf the other MMO's who have gone legacy/progression many times over. It's just disappointing, that's all. I'm a little bummed. I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 1. Love everything they've done, brought an immense amount of joy into my life. I know it's a little sappy, but Blizzard truly is a great company, and I really want to play Vanilla WoW

Nothing wrong with having dreams man, sometimes life just sucks you know.

Maybe there will be vanilla legacy servers, maybe not.

[RickJamesLich]

Well, I do know that there are quantifiable populations, populations that dwarf the other MMO's who have gone legacy/progression many times over. It's just disappointing, that's all. I'm a little bummed. I've been a huge Blizzard fan since Warcraft 1. Love everything they've done, brought an immense amount of joy into my life. I know it's a little sappy, but Blizzard truly is a great company, and I really want to play Vanilla WoW

Right there with you brah. I was around since warcraft 2 though. Played Rock n Roll racing before that though and I don't know how many people know this but back in those times, blizzard has a reputation for being *the* computer gaming company. Sounds funny now but back then a lot of people didn't own computers, but when they'd go to a friends house and see games, especially the ones made by blizzard, they'd want to go home and get a computer themselves.

Back then they had a reputation for being a company that would settle for nothing less then perfection and *all* of their games had amazing replay value. For example, people were playing Starcraft competitively 15 years after it was released. They were a company by gamers and for gamers. None of this "you think you do but you really don't want this" stuff lol.

The people who think "oh it's just nostalgia, people won't really like the game and will get bored" have no clue. We already played the game again on Nostalrius and it was WAY more fun then retail. Fun to an extent that I don't even think retail players can comprehend, frankly.

[Captnrex]

Or maybe they gathered, discussed an even more profitable way to milk the playerbase, by toggling off certain features, keeping the same content and while (with the "No-Token" talk, I can only assume different subscription based) getting an extra subscription from who fancies playing WoD 2.0: Less QoL version.

And I don't blame them. That's quite a profitable move~

-

If I was in charge of McDonalds menu and, when asked for a vegetarian meal, I'd just take out the burger and kept the rest exactly as it is, I'd be patting myself on the back too!

Im pretty sure the meant you can get the gold from selling a token on that server

[Dormie]

Why would they? This kind of things is almost NEVER shared w/ outsiders.

They don't have to if they want people to keep asking for legacy servers.

Until then let's go ahead and stop assuming that they have done research just for the sake of argument. They haven't had a reason to do any sort of research, they have expansions coming out. They aren't at that point yet.