[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Kioga]

perpetual spring is only -3s per rank, and you wont get enough to get 100% uptime barkskin, as it's a 1.5min cd. I'd have to check but I think the -50% cd talent is probably after the number being reduced, so one rank with the talent wouldnt be 42 seconds but 43.5seconds. Relics right now only give +1 rank, but i guess we might see relics with more than that later in the game.

My favorite is ursoc's endurance... if you can get 3 relics for it, it's a +1.5 increase to your AM, which would be a 20% uptime increase for all your AM. Wildflesh isn't so bad either.

BS is on a 90sec cd?
Wowdb and Wowhead still show it on a 60 sec CD so i figured SotF would bring that down to 30 secs and Rank 6 Perpetual Spring (3x base + 3x Relics) would reduce it by another 20secs. So every 10 secs you can pop BS... which lasts 12 secs. Should have known that was too good to be true.

[Adramelch]

Even if it was 60 seconds, your calculations would still be wrong seeing as (it's in the post you quoted) the talent (as with all the talents as far as I understand) works after the trait reduction and not vice versa.

[Kioga]

Even if it was 60 seconds, your calculations would still be wrong seeing as (it's in the post you quoted) the talent (as with all the talents as far as I understand) works after the trait reduction and not vice versa.

Hadn't heard anything about order of application yet but that is good to know. So if BS goes live with a 90sec cd, seems like 35secs is the lowest you could get it based upon current info. Still not bad for 20% DR cd, just not as good as I first envisioned.

[Deleted]

We're still in the process of revising this ability, and I think today's build got made while we were in the middle of some changes to it. We're changing it to 33% damage reduction, plus dealing some Physical damage to the attacker that's based on an AP coefficient. What exactly that coefficient is... is currently undecided. Stay tuned.

I asked a question on Rage of the Sleepr

[Lysozyme]

For Guardian on Alpha:

Guardian Druid CDs v1 - http://pastebin.com/PhE1Szd5
Frenzied Regen v1.1 - http://pastebin.com/pazzbWb3

The CDs WA shows a % reduction, physical and magical separately, for the damage reduction from your target. If you have no target it uses your level +3. It takes the following into account: Thick Hide; Armour; Pain Suppression; Vigilance; Hand of Sacrifice; Ironbark; Survival Instincts; Barkskin; Rage of the Sleeper; Power Word: Barrier; Pulverize; Mark of Ursol; and Rend and Tear. Rend and Tear will not be considered if you do not have the talent. The physical damage reduction assumes that the relevant physical damage can be mitigated by armour. Be advised that certain abilities may not come 'from the target', rather from the environment, and so may not be affected by Rend and Tear as you would expect them to be. Note that the reason the number changes depending on the level of your target is because of how Armour's reduction is calculated differently depending on the level of the attacker. Note that it uses a baseline of whatever your physical damage reduction from base armour is as 'zero physical damage reduction'.

There is currently no way to look at the Artifact API with WeakAuras (this is bound to change at some point in the future). If you want to edit your Survival Instincts such that it is higher than a 50% DR based on your Artifact, go to the "Druid_Damage_Reduction" WA, Actions tab, and expand the text editor for Custom Code. Change the number from Survival Instincts from {0.5, 0.5} to e.g. {0.6, 0.6} if you had 3 points in the relevant trait.

It also displays the duration of the buffs for all of the above except for Power Word: Barrier and Thrash(Rend and Tear), which it felt like it didn't make sense to include. It also shows the duration of the buff Bristling Fur. It sorts the buffs from longest to shortest. Each individual use of Ironfur is regarded as a separate duration.

There is currently no way to look at the Artifact API with WeakAuras (this is bound to change at some point in the future). If you want to edit your Ironfur duration such that it is higher than 6 seconds baseline or 8 seconds with Guardian of Elune, go to the "Ironfur manager" WA, Trigger tab, and expand the text editor for Custom Trigger. Change the number on the third line where it says "local dur = 6" to e.g. "local dur = 7.5" if you had 3 points in the relevant trait.

Note that for the CDs Weakaura to correctly display Ironfur, you must do a /reload after importing it, or relog (once only).

The Frenzied Regeneration WA shows the expected value of Frenzied Regeneration, displayed as a percentage of your maximum health at the moment it's cast. It does not take into account the Legendary which modifies FR (which in any event would be to simply add 20 to the figure shown). It includes modification from Mastery. It uses the Maximum Health and Mastery values at the time it's cast; so whilst the "healing as a percentage of maximum health" would change if you gained or lost Mastery during the HoT, this doesn't actually matter. Naturally gaining or losing Mastery during the HoT would affect FR's actual healing done, but the WA displays using the initial value of Mastery.

Note that the FR WA does not include damage taken when that damage is avoided. Unsure of how to implement that. In most cases it likely won't be very significant.

I had some design input but all the hard work was done by Hamsda, so you have him to thank!

If you encounter any bugs or have any suggestions as to changes let me or Hamsda know.

[Bunnychaser]

For Guardian on Alpha:

Guardian Druid CDs v1 - http://pastebin.com/BmSwvn6a
Frenzied Regen v1 - http://pastebin.com/f4xEnctK

The CDs WA shows a % reduction, physical and magical separately, for the damage reduction from your target. If you have no target it uses your level +3. It takes the following into account: Thick Hide; Armour; Pain Suppression; Vigilance; Hand of Sacrifice; Ironbark; Survival Instincts; Barkskin; Rage of the Sleeper; Power Word: Barrier; Pulverize; Mark of Ursol; and Rend and Tear. Rend and Tear will not be considered if you do not have the talent. The physical damage reduction assumes that the relevant physical damage can be mitigated by armour. Be advised that certain abilities may not come 'from the target', rather from the environment, and so may not be affected by Rend and Tear as you would expect them to be. Note that the reason the number changes depending on the level of your target is because of how Armour's reduction is calculated differently depending on the level of the attacker. Note that it uses a baseline of whatever your physical damage reduction from base armour is as 'zero physical damage reduction'.

There is currently no way to look at the Artifact API with WeakAuras (this is bound to change at some point in the future). If you want to edit your Survival Instincts such that it is higher than a 50% DR based on your Artifact, go to the "Druid_Damage_Reduction" WA, Actions tab, and expand the text editor for Custom Code. Change the number from Survival Instincts from {0.5, 0.5} to e.g. {0.6, 0.6} if you had 3 points in the relevant trait.

It also displays the duration of the buffs for all of the above except for Power Word: Barrier and Thrash(Rend and Tear), which it felt like it didn't make sense to include. It also shows the duration of the buff Bristling Fur. It sorts the buffs from longest to shortest. Each individual use of Ironfur is regarded as a separate duration.

There is currently no way to look at the Artifact API with WeakAuras (this is bound to change at some point in the future). If you want to edit your Ironfur duration such that it is higher than 6 seconds baseline or 8 seconds with Guardian of Elune, go to the "Ironfur manager" WA, Trigger tab, and expand the text editor for Custom Trigger. Change the number on the third line where it says "local dur = 6" to e.g. "local dur = 7.5" if you had 3 points in the relevant trait.

Note that for the CDs Weakaura to correctly display Ironfur, you must do a /reload after importing it, or relog (once only).

The Frenzied Regeneration WA shows the expected value of Frenzied Regeneration, displayed as a percentage of your maximum health at the moment it's cast. It does not take into account the Legendary which modifies FR (which in any event would be to simply add 20 to the figure shown). It includes modification from Mastery. It uses the Maximum Health and Mastery values at the time it's cast; so whilst the "healing as a percentage of maximum health" would change if you gained or lost Mastery during the HoT, this doesn't actually matter. Naturally gaining or losing Mastery during the HoT would affect FR's actual healing done, but the WA displays using the initial value of Mastery.

Note that the FR WA does not include damage taken when that damage is avoided. Unsure of how to implement that. In most cases it likely won't be very significant.

I had some design input but all the hard work was done by Hamsda, so you have him to thank!

If you encounter any bugs or have any suggestions as to changes let me or Hamsda know.

this is ridiculously useful (@ FR WA)

thx for posting it, i used it for the most recent testing.

[Dreyen]

Frenzied regen heals over 3sec instead of 6sec, we done it boys

Rage of the sleeper reflect is now based on your AP.

Incarnation is back to 30sec and being completly op

And they nerfed incap roar's aoe radius synergy with guttural roars... incap roar op confirmed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[v1perz53]

Oh god I initially read the Frenzied Regen change as "heals damage you took over the last 3 seconds" and thought it was a nerf and got frustrated, very glad to see I misread it. Rage of the Sleeper change is fine, worked it so it keeps the 33% DR. Incarnation change is awesome, no way that is balanced though against the other options that tier. 30 seconds of 3 target mangle? Yes please, sounds fantastic for dungeons on top of everything else. Maybe one day I will understand their idea of how Incap Roar should be used on a class with an AoE DoT as part of its single target rotation but for now, I will continue to ignore its existence. Overall very glad it doesn't seem any random changes came in to ruin all the fun, but there is still plenty of time for that.

[Deleted]

Good changes.

Still plenty of the same feedback though. Bears are in a good place I'd say.

[Ultramad]

Good changes.

Still plenty of the same feedback though. Bears are in a good place I'd say.

I can't say I've had the chance to play Alpha yet, but will the 3sec feel a bit more like a impactful heal now in comparison to the old 6 second one?

I'm surprised to see no complete AM nerfs across the board looking at Paladin/BrM/Bear active mitigation uptimes at the moment.

[Deleted]

I can't say I've had the chance to play Alpha yet, but will the 3sec feel a bit more like a impactful heal now in comparison to the old 6 second one?

I'm surprised to see no complete AM nerfs across the board looking at Paladin/BrM/Bear active mitigation uptimes at the moment.

They did recently nerf the armor buff from 100% to 75%.

Its uptime isn't that much of an issue I should think.

[Ultramad]

Off-topic a bit, apologies
It just feels weird because; I was watching the raid testing on trekkie's stream Monday. His Paladin had 100% SoTR uptime while tanking. No less, wasn't even close, he had a spare 10+ seconds at the worst times it seemed like.

Monks have absurd ISB uptime atm, it's almost always got to be up or they get toasted. I know tuning isn't done yet, so their passive mitigation could go up, and ISB could come down, but it's an incredibly binary situation.

Both of those things make me believe the devs haven't hit their mark, and/or, aren't done with active mitigation. They said they wanted to reduce our uptimes to make them more impactful when we do hit them. Does that seem like the current alpha situation? I feel like they're way off on it. I'll play them all regardless I'm sure, because I'm a glutton for tank punishment, but it does seem like they haven't hit the mark yet.

[v1perz53]

I like the idea of high theoretical uptime for AM on Bears currently because of the fact that physical and magic AM are split, so it doesn't truly become passive. Also, given how Ironfur works, the high uptime is necessary because in reality you want to chose how much it is stacked to deal with burst, so there is still a range of AM based on how much it is stacked up. Monks are unique in that Ironskin Brew doesn't actually prevent any damage, just smoothes it, so I think the uptime for them is necessary, they are spiky enough already. It is the Purify useage that defines their AM more, and right now it is so poorly balanced that you can't really ever use it/it isn't worth using, so Monk AM uptime will change as Purify balancing gets better. Pally is the only real issue I see. Since ShotR reduces all damage and nothing competes with it for resources, if it approaches 100% uptime and doesn't stack, you just hit the button on CD and it becomes passive. I don't think this is what blizzard wants, but I think both Bear and Monk have mechanics behind their AM so that it is still interesting even with high uptimes.

[Deleted]

Off-topic a bit, apologies
It just feels weird because; I was watching the raid testing on trekkie's stream Monday. His Paladin had 100% SoTR uptime while tanking. No less, wasn't even close, he had a spare 10+ seconds at the worst times it seemed like.

They cheesed it like many other guilds did it to see the whole encounter and dont wipe at the first dps/hps check. They equipped JC Necks and Rings with sockets. The gems in them also scaled up that they had like 9k more secondary stats but please dont ask me for exact numbers and how that works. Treckie was at like 50% crit and 30% haste in the raid instance.

Monks have absurd ISB uptime atm, it's almost always got to be up or they get toasted. I know tuning isn't done yet, so their passive mitigation could go up, and ISB could come down, but it's an incredibly binary situation.

Monks reach 100% uptime with the correct talent if im correct. But there are almost zero charges left to purify their stagger then. Its a "Die by Burst or Die by not cleaning your stagger" situation right now.

[Ultramad]

They cheesed it like many other guilds did it to see the whole encounter and dont wipe at the first dps/hps check. They equipped JC Necks and Rings with sockets. The gems in them also scaled up that they had like 9k more secondary stats but please dont ask me for exact numbers and how that works. Treckie was at like 50% crit and 30% haste in the raid instance.




Monks reach 100% uptime with the correct talent if im correct. But there are almost zero charges left to purify their stagger then. Its a "Die by Burst or Die by not cleaning your stagger" situation right now.

Yeah I'd like to believe that 100% AM uptime isn't the goal for the first tier of the xpac, unless that would be their intention. I tanked back when you had to have block up literally all the time or you got crushed, so I've done it before and can do it again!

Monks right now...I just don't like it. Isn't ISB just shuffle at this point? The worst part is that it's a less interactive shuffle. I loved doing the whole 120APM brewmaster in Mythic Highmaul with serenity and living through ridiculous amounts of damage. I felt like I had complete control. What I see now looks just...passive.

My bear is all ready to go for legion at least. That new incarnation, being a 30s berserk basically will be a hell of a thing in CMs. I slightly worry about the significant difference in group utility that Paladins and DHs bring in comparison to Druids. Roar is great utility and we'll always find a place to use it, but it's not the same as having your whole group stack behind the paladin in the consecrate and take 20% less damage and get healed by the paladin.

Thanks for giving me all the facts on those things I said there. I wish I had all the facts but despite all my tweets and relentless pestering, I can't seem to get my hands on Alpha.

[Bunnychaser]

By the way, don't know how much messing around you guys have done with the new rage of the sleeper, but it hits for 80k+ every attack.

Mobs out in the world kill themselves faster than I kill them w/ ROTS up.

I don't know if it's intended to be this strong, but it's pretty fuckin ridiculous.

[huth]

By the way, don't know how much messing around you guys have done with the new rage of the sleeper, but it hits for 80k+ every attack.

Mobs out in the world kill themselves faster than I kill them w/ ROTS up.

I don't know if it's intended to be this strong, but it's pretty fuckin ridiculous.

Depends, do you have 32k+ attack power? If yes, then it is intended to be that strong.

[Bunnychaser]

Depends, do you have 32k+ attack power? If yes, then it is intended to be that strong.

So, what is it, your sole purpose on these forums is to start arguments for no reason?

My point was obvious; the current scaling seems a bit too high for the ability. It's hitting far more than what I believe would make it balanced. That's all. No reason to be condescending about my opinion.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

So, what is it, your sole purpose on these forums is to start arguments for no reason?

My point was obvious; the current scaling seems a bit too high for the ability. It's hitting far more than what I believe would make it balanced. That's all. No reason to be condescending about my opinion.

The current Ratio is 250% of AP. That's the way it's intended atm. It does seem a little high, especially in AOE situations, but we'll have to wait and see.

My predecessor may have been a bit blunt. But your question was worded a bit silly. Your entire post was drenched in sarcasm, so you can't expect someone to reply in a serious manner, or say you intended to start a serious debate.

[huth]

My predecessor may have been a bit blunt. But your question was worded a bit silly. Your entire post was drenched in sarcasm, so you can't expect someone to reply in a serious manner, or say you intended to start a serious debate.

For that matter, we're in alpha still. It's perfectly possible that the damage doesn't match the expected value.