"Undergearing" Mythic Archimonde

[friedmudkipz]

It's not accurate to label better whoever does it earlier. There are various factors. For instance a guild that raids only for 3 days but is top 150 world, is likely world 1st tier if they had the chance to raid 14 days in a row for 18 hours a day like the 1st do.

This is not true at all. Method killed archi at something like 719 average raid ilvl with no legendary rings. If you think that any guild could do that and that it's just a matter of time investment you're sadly mistaken.

[Relapses]

This is so far from the truth i not even funny. Your trolling for post count is getting out of hand.


This is why you don't use markers to show where to go. From experience, using number is the best, like in Paragon's video. Text is also good, like in Rapid Eye Movement's video. I prefer numbers because it's less info to process, a single number versus two words. Markers being the worst option. It has no logic, and you need to just learn a world marker position, which can be different in other guilds or pugs. In general using numbers for such mechanics is better and easier. Zakuun using 1-5 over having to learn where five different markers are positioned. Blackhand 1-3 for Marked for Death in p3, etc. 1-2-3-4-5 is logical, green-purple-orange-blue-yellow is not. Everyone knows how to count.

That's a matter of opinion. I'd say raid markers are generally easier since you can use this WA and they're giant fucking markers on the ground but to each their own.

[Deleted]

If you think that any guild could do that and that it's just a matter of time investment you're sadly mistaken.

Yes, I would be sadly mistaken if I thought any guild could do that. I said the exact opposite. That specifically a top 150 guiild that only raids for 3 days a week (possibly for 3-4 hours max) is the one that could do it, not everyone.

It's probably not clear to everyone here, and that's why I get these responses off that statement, but you have to understand it's VERY rare to be near the top 100 on a 3 day guild. It's a real achievement to manage it.

This is so far from the truth i not even funny.

Do you have any arguments to support your position?

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the world 150 guild has to put in so much less effort, let alone how much more gear the 150 guild has from weeks of farming mythic all the legendary rings and upgrades, vs method who had none.

Your reasoning is right as a general concept but it does not take into account the specific case properly. I said specifically a top 150 guild that only raids for 3 days a week (possibly only for 3-4 hours). You have to understand that is _very_ rare and a real achievement.

[Relapses]

Just comparing stats from wowprogress, almost every 3 day raiding guild got their first Mythic Archi kill sometime between September-October while the poopsock guilds got their first kills in mid-July/early August. That's more than a full month separating the poopsock guilds from the 3-day guilds (many of whom likely raided extra hours to get their first kills). While being top 150 World and 3/days a week is an accomplishment I think it's incredibly disingenuous to say that they're somehow on the same level as the poopsocking guilds since the players who killed the boss in September had nearly 6 more lockouts worth of gear, on average.

[Deleted]

Just comparing stats from wowprogress, almost every 3 day raiding guild got their first Mythic Archi kill sometime between September-October while the poopsock guilds got their first kills in mid-July/early August. That's more than a full month separating the poopsock guilds from the 3-day guilds (many of whom likely raided extra hours to get their first kills). While being top 150 World and 3/days a week is an accomplishment I think it's incredibly disingenuous to say that they're somehow on the same level as the poopsocking guilds since the players who killed the boss in September had nearly 6 more lockouts worth of gear, on average.

I don't know why you used the word disingenuous here. We're having opinions, I'm not lying to you.

Can we see your data that proves almost every 3 day raiding guild got their kills then?

Real 3 day guilds are VERY rare to be near the top 100, they are very few up there.

[Relapses]

...okay, I literally said it in the first 5 words of my post. Do I need to slow it down and space it out for you?

Just comparing stats from wowprogress,

You know, by going to wowprogress and then sorting guilds' progress by the dropdown that says, "3 days/week." Since this may take a bit of time, I'll even go ahead and link it for you:

http://www.wowprogress.com/?faction=...=&class=&spec=

Pretty difficult, huh?

And as for the whole bit about calling you disingenuous, I'll go ahead and post the definition of that word for you here as well,

dis·in·gen·u·ous
/disənˈjenyo͞oəs/

adjective

not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

...when you make broad, unfounded statements along the lines of "3 day guilds in the top 150 are just as good as Method they just don't poopsock," while ignoring the very clear evidence which supports otherwise, that's... you guessed it: Disingenuous.

[Khorm]

Talk in hours not days. A 5hr x 3 day guild could be raiding more than a 4 day guild.

[Relapses]

Talk in hours not days. A 5hr x 3 day guild could be raiding more than a 4 day guild.

True, but the point remains: Most guilds who raided less than 7 days a week killed Archi more than a month later. Not only did these players have Legendary rings which Method did not, they also had far more gear.

[Deleted]

...okay, I literally said it in the first 5 words of my post. Do I need to slow it down and space it out for you?



You know, by going to wowprogress and then sorting guilds' progress by the dropdown that says, "3 days/week." Since this may take a bit of time, I'll even go ahead and link it for you:

http://www.wowprogress.com/?faction=...=&class=&spec=

Pretty difficult, huh?

And as for the whole bit about calling you disingenuous, I'll go ahead and post the definition of that word for you here as well,



...when you make broad, unfounded statements along the lines of "3 day guilds in the top 150 are just as good as Method they just don't poopsock," while ignoring the very clear evidence which supports otherwise, that's... you guessed it: Disingenuous.

Before personally attacking people, check your facts. That wowprogress feature is bugged and it does not properly track who is actually raiding for 3 days. I talked to Kihra of Warcraft Logs about it when he was developing a new ranking feature recently and he said it's impossible to properly track that with the Blizzard APIs.

To know who is literally a 3 day guild you have to check the individual guilds more closely.

A lot of them raid a lot more during progress than during farm.

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Also, even if we assumed that the feature worked correctly, you found 12 guilds in the entire game that are within world 150 and wowprogress detected them as 3-day guild. Do you realize how unique that is and an achievement?

Your "almost every 3 day guild did 13/13 in Sep/Oct" is simply not realistic.

[Relapses]

Going off the presumption that wowprogress is flawed then, if you were talking about guilds that strictly raided 3 days you'd probably have to see guilds who didn't down Archi until early/mid-October, a nearly full 8 lockouts worth of gear/Legendary ring upgrades after Method. Your assertion that 3 day guilds are somehow on the same level as guilds that killed Archi in July/August is completely, unequivocally and entirely baseless. GJ there, you just proved yourself wrong with your post.

Additionally, at no point did I personally attack you, either, I'm just completely baffled how you can see something so plainly described to you and still not understand what's being said.

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edit: since you just added this, I'll go ahead and tackle this for you as well:

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Also, even if we assumed that the feature worked correctly, you found 12 guilds in the entire game that are within world 150 and wowprogress detected them as 3-day guild. Do you realize how unique that is and an achievement?

Your "almost every 3 day guild did 13/13 in Sep/Oct" is simply not realistic.

Never once did I say almost every 3 day guild did 13/13M in Sept/Oct. I suppose the wording is a bit extraneous but I meant every guild worthy being considered at a high level of skill. I disagreed with your earlier statement that the only thing which separates 3 day/wk guilds from guilds like Method is time investment. I actually agree with you on your giant bolded statement, so the fact that you're trying to attack me over this is further confusing. What the fuck, dude?

[Deleted]

To add on the previous message, there is a single guild in the entire game that is reported to be 2-day and is within top 100. If that checks out it's really impressive. You can't really tell those people are slacking or that they are at a much lesser league than the 1st.

[Relapses]

To add on the previous message, there is a single guild n the entire game that is reported to be 2-day and is within top 100. If that checks out it's really impressive. You can't really tell those people are slacking.

I don't think they're slacking. Being a top guild with a strict raiding schedule is an impressive feat, I never disagreed with you on this point. But due to the cyclical nature of raid lock-outs, gear and the way Blizzard introduced the Legendary ring upgrade system this tier, it seems rather unfair to hold guilds who kill bosses 8-10 lockouts after the first guilds at the same level of distinction.

[Deleted]

I don't think they're slacking. Being a top guild with a strict raiding schedule is an impressive feat, I never disagreed with you on this point. But due to the cyclical nature of raid lock-outs, gear and the way Blizzard introduced the Legendary ring upgrade system this tier, it seems rather unfair to hold guilds who kill bosses 8-10 lockouts after the first guilds at the same level of distinction.

Look, to tone it down, I agree that the factor of world 1st teams spending all this time on it is something to count (for instance spending the time to have 2 alts per player). Also, the gear after farming does have an effect.

However, when you have 14 days in a row of 16 hours a day, farm is also more! You know why? Because for instance you will kill Gorefiend on the 4th day instead of the next week so your farm will be more!

Being someone that raids only for 2 days or 3 (and most of them report 3 or 4 hour raids too, not 18!) is not just something convenient; to be near 100 with that little time, that's really good man.

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Also two other notes. If one is 18 hours a day at it for 7 days or 6 is likely not just doing at least twice the pulls of a 3 day guild but probably quadruple that because it's also the hours per day. The second is that they don't just have more farming on the more-days guild by killing something faster instead of the next week, but also because they do split runs, which means they have alts or friends helping them to funnel gear to mains (which is extra effort of course, but on the mythic boss itself, it was also more farming).

[Tusq]

I wonder if this is considered offtopic :^)

[Sonnillon]

Lets stick to the discussion at hand.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry Tusq. On to the topic, following on your last post, I thought long and hard about this mechanic and all the options that are around and I concluded that I'd better use the addon. There are some weakauras that appear to do the same thing or better but I'd rather have something simple to install like that rather than an aura since it will be a black-box code in either case anyway, so I'd rather go with the simpler less prone to failure to install method.

At first we thought the addon worked incorrectly because some melee may be send at the back, but I figured out after reading comments about it that it sends melee at the back sometimes based on duration (I suppose the longest durations at the back). Other than that it splits all the rest to four. I do expect it is a doable mechanic with just raid marks and intuitive splitting to the 4 corners though, it doesn't look hard, unless one wouldn't have raid marks at all.

Other than that the only hard part appears to be avoiding to be knocked back from the front to the back groups so it needs an appropriate distance.

[Tusq]

We deaded him! Hurray for us.

[Fabinas]

We deaded him! Hurray for us.

Good luck reclearing HFC for the second kill, lal.

[Tusq]

Good luck reclearing HFC for the second kill, lal.

Lal so funny.

Thanks for all the help to the guys that actually added to the help of the kill. Cheers!

[Fabinas]

Of course it's funny, you haven't killed Mannoroth for 1.5 months already and you had just that one kill. You haven't killed Xhul since 15.2.2016. Gratz on the guild achievements, but i wouldn't be proud, if i couldn't repeat the feat. Shame your last log doesn't show the kill (armory does, tho). Feel Free to inform us of your further progress.