Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[cholobanger]

Progressive private servers already have all those questions answered for you as well. Run the server on patch 1.12.1, with gated opening of raids. Start with MC and Ony open and stagger the rest on a timeline. Once Naxx is cleared by a % of the player base, reset the server. Thats how its been done on private servers for years and people keep rerolling to start over.

I still struggle to understand how this system can keep the server healthy for a long term. And is it unanimous that the pro-Legacy crowd want Vanilla ONLY servers that reset at an arbitrary point? If so are there plans to open BC and Wrath too, and how long till they do open after Vanilla? Are you happy to stay congruent to the original timeline of major patch releases from 2004 or are you going to want again a custom date to release them?

[Ringthane]

These questions have been asked countless times in the thread.

Answer to all of them: Give 1.12.1 as it was. Nothing more.

OK.

What kind of car do you drive? Does it have power windows? Air conditioning? Power door locks? A CD player (or ability to play MP3s)? What gas mileage does it get? Does it have airbags and other safety features?

So, if you're content with getting a piece of technology that's stuck in the past, with no improvements or new features, you'll be perfectly fine if we come to your house, take your car, and provide you with one from the 1970's, when most of those features above were either non-existent or expensive upgrades that most people considered luxuries, right? After all, all you need (or all you want) is something that was available years ago, but isn't any more, right?

And remember, you wanted this. So you can't just use it for a couple of weeks, say "this sucks", and get your old car back. You have to keep using it, because you want to show the car makers how you don't need all those new features - you're perfectly happy with this stripped-down, never maintained, never updated model. You asked for it, you got it.

Doesn't sound like as much fun as you thought it did, does it?

[Deleted]

I still struggle to understand how this system can keep the server healthy for a long term. And is it unanimous that the pro-Legacy crowd want Vanilla ONLY servers that reset at an arbitrary point? If so are there plans to open BC and Wrath too, and how long till they do open after Vanilla? Are you happy to stay congruent to the original timeline of major patch releases from 2004 or are you going to want again a custom date to release them?

The way I see it is that the system would not be the long term solution, but rather a stopgap solution while they completely rework the game design of the current version to once again attract players and not lose 100k subs per month. And they should open both vanilla and TBC servers, maybe also WotLK, with the ability to transfer from the previous one to the next one at will.

[cholobanger]

The way I see it is that the system would not be the long term solution, but rather a stopgap solution while they completely rework the game design of the current version to once again attract players and not lose 100k subs per month.

I mean that's certainly possible and is in the interest of improving WoW, but in 2016 and beyond it seems very difficult to revive WoW and even more extremely difficult to popularize the MMORPG genre.

[Jibjub]

I still struggle to understand how this system can keep the server healthy for a long term. And is it unanimous that the pro-Legacy crowd want Vanilla ONLY servers that reset at an arbitrary point? If so are there plans to open BC and Wrath too, and how long till they do open after Vanilla? Are you happy to stay congruent to the original timeline of major patch releases from 2004 or are you going to want again a custom date to release them?

If enough people played it, it could be supported more by Blizzard long-term (a very small team, mind you). I am thinking in-game events (like the LK event) that are fun and cool and limited-time only--and that would not require a TON of dev time--to shake things up a bit. Even plopping a raid boss (from any expansion) in the middle of an open-world zone and letting folks fight it out could be fun. If there was that and decent world PvP available and the slow implementation of tools that help support more player-created content, I think it could work. This all depending on a large enough amount of people playing it, of course.

just 100k subs = over 1 million bucks a month. That could afford a small team, me thinks.

[Ratatosk]

OK.

What kind of car do you drive? Does it have power windows? Air conditioning? Power door locks? A CD player (or ability to play MP3s)? What gas mileage does it get? Does it have airbags and other safety features?

So, if you're content with getting a piece of technology that's stuck in the past, with no improvements or new features, you'll be perfectly fine if we come to your house, take your car, and provide you with one from the 1970's, when most of those features above were either non-existent or expensive upgrades that most people considered luxuries, right? After all, all you need (or all you want) is something that was available years ago, but isn't any more, right?

And remember, you wanted this. So you can't just use it for a couple of weeks, say "this sucks", and get your old car back. You have to keep using it, because you want to show the car makers how you don't need all those new features - you're perfectly happy with this stripped-down, never maintained, never updated model. You asked for it, you got it.

Doesn't sound like as much fun as you thought it did, does it?

Please stop embarrassing yourself with ridiculous analogies, thanks.

[Deleted]

The solution is preferably to steer retail WoW back to vanilla design philosophies. Legacy servers will entertain and be fun for quite a while I imagine, but aren't a permanent solution.

Retail wow being amazing, fun and where most players spend their time should always be the goal.

Pristine servers don't sound fun at all.

It would have to include many more changes.
- No teleport to dungeons/BGs.
- No/altered LFG/LFR features.
- No flying.
- Dungeon crawlers brought back intead of EVERY SINGLE PULL BEING AOE.
- Difficult mobs and pulls in world and instances.
- Gated content.
- Exclusive content.
- slow grinds for vanity items.
- More random rare world drops.
- Professions made important.

etc etc.

[Bellabel]

You can prove this, yes? You have data which shows that there are almost seven million players out there who are just sitting with bated breath, waiting for a legacy server option from Blizzard? You have data which shows, conclusively, that all of those players did not leave because they got tired of playing the same game for 12 years, or because their lives changed and they no longer have the time or resources to devote to the game?

Then why haven't you shown that data to Blizzard? Get busy, son. If you have this data at your disposal, it should be easy to convince Blizzard to do this. Or to make them look like idiots for not doing it.

No company would do something that costs as much as what we're talking about here for just a few months. Companies (at least successful ones) do not do things because "hey, people will find this fun for a couple of months". And yes, the cost to have vanilla servers is more than making an expansion. Having vanilla servers running alongside current ones would entail the following costs:

Vanilla code
Maintaining that code alongside current code
New servers to run that code
IT workers to maintain and repair those servers
Pay and office space for those workers (including insurance)
Bandwidth for all the additional connections to those servers

And if you're going to say "well, they just need one or two extra servers", first of all, you say that all former players would return. That's 7 million players. Look at how crowded the existing servers were at the start of WoD. You're seriously going to shove 7 million players onto one or two servers? Seriously? Secondly, what if more people end up playing on the vanilla servers? What would stop Blizzard from saying "looks like we'll make more money running this old code than developing new content"? Then WoW dies and there's nothing to entice new players anyway. Then, as people grow bored of playing vanilla (as they inevitably would), it would again not be cost-effecting for Blizzard to keep WoW going, and then it gets shut down for good. And then nobody plays it.

After all, if all 7 million former players return, that's more players than are currently playing, right? If we assume that there are still 5 million playing the current game? Why bother developing anything new, when the real money would be in just shoving out the old stuff and saying "there ya go, you ungrateful slobs".

Congratulations. Your twisted logic has just killed World of Warcraft. Way to go, champ.

I don't need data from some focus group to make my number, Blizzard made them by constantly posting what its peak population was. Additionally is safe to surmise that the players that left after its peak left due to the sad state of the game. Like I said if even 15% of the former player base returned it will be a win, JUST 15%.

You make it sound like taking on a vanila server wil cost as much as developing a new expansion, news flash vanilla is already created. Its about intergating battle.net
Yes Blizzard will be happy to have people return for a few months, after all they've stated they're more than happy to have people come back and leave shortly there after. Look up the post that states they're happy with cyclical player subs. You managed to miss my point on the numbers too, the 12 million top end of players doesn't mean wow only had 12m active players ever. My point was the game as well over 12 million total players throughout the 12 years its existed.

Servers and bandwitdh, do you understand blizzard gets huge discounts for all those things. So huge infact they can make current wow a near free to play game that lives off in game stores and some nubs buying tokens to sell.

Maintaining code along current code!? HAHA, dude its only going to be battle.net not the abomination of current wow. It will in all likely hood have its own server, its not complicated. As a matter of fact its so uncomplicated private server pop up left and right, most of which pop up in after 3-6 weeks of volunteers time.

Blizzard has hubris, after all this is what lead to Project Titan failing (you'll find that with ease.) Do you think the people who let infighting break up a couple of years of developing a new MMO, wouldn't let it stop them from creating vanilla?

It isn't he private server community breaking wow, its Blizzard itself. The game is predominantly appealing to the achievement who*es, pokomon players, house wives who like to see cat skins on their druids, people who want instant gratification, people who want to see everything the game has to offer without effort, and transmog people who made wow into a hipster fashion show.

[Deleted]

I mean that's certainly possible and is in the interest of improving WoW, but in 2016 and beyond it seems very difficult to revive WoW and even more extremely difficult to popularize the MMORPG genre.

MMORPG genre is doing just fine. GW2 and FFXIV are doing well, EVE is hitting their highest numbers ever, Minecraft is a mega hit (and took the playerbase that WoW would've needed to survive the next decade).

[fromPz]

I loved the game in Vanilla even a bit into Tbc.
I think they should've kept the game as it was in Vanilla / Tbc but just release patches for bugs / glitches etc and release expansion (content) as time passes.

[Gsara]

I still struggle to understand how this system can keep the server healthy for a long term. And is it unanimous that the pro-Legacy crowd want Vanilla ONLY servers that reset at an arbitrary point? If so are there plans to open BC and Wrath too, and how long till they do open after Vanilla? Are you happy to stay congruent to the original timeline of major patch releases from 2004 or are you going to want again a custom date to release them?

There are many different private servers out there from vanilla to wod. Legacy servers imo should only include vanilla to wotlk. Starting with just vanilla is fine and they could add the others later. The servers could start from the very beginning of vanilla if thats how they want to do it or they could do it like private servers currently do. I dont think it really matters that much to the majority of people that play them.

Resetting the servers, if thats what blizzard decides, isnt arbitrary. Its after a percentage of the player base has cleared Naxx, the last raid of vanilla. Its similar to what they already do and have done for years with raiding when it comes to nerfs to current raid tiers. You could even give an option to roll your character over to a BC server once the vanilla is at its end and ready to reset.

[Jeniwyn]

You could probably get a concensus that rather than a reset/conversion to TBC the principle of charachter copy to new realms is prefered. So basically the first vanilla realm aught to stay forever vanilla without resets and depending on serverload a second reopened realm could either also stay vanilla or allow transfers/copy to the forever vanilla once it is time for TBC or a reset. This was the way Nostalrius planned to play it and it really is the only way that makes sense.

I.e no charachter is ever forcefully deleted or put in an expansion they don't wanna move into. Simply because there is no reason to force that at any point.

[cholobanger]

There are many different private servers out there from vanilla to wod. Legacy servers imo should only include vanilla to wotlk. Starting with just vanilla is fine and they could add the others later. The servers could start from the very beginning of vanilla if thats how they want to do it or they could do it like private servers currently do. I dont think it really matters that much to the majority of people that play them.

Resetting the servers, if thats what blizzard decides, isnt arbitrary. Its after a percentage of the player base has cleared Naxx, the last raid of vanilla. Its similar to what they already do and have done for years with raiding when it comes to nerfs to current raid tiers. You could even give an option to roll your character over to a BC server once the vanilla is at its end and ready to reset.

Assuming the pro-legacy crowd want either; to play the game they once played again, OR to get that quick taste of nostalgia (I honestly don't even know) - can you elaborate on how this idea is meant to last long?

It's safe to say the average WoW player in 2016 is no longer a keyboard turner, knows how to play their role, and understands BASIC mechanics. Let's say all three expansions get cleared in 3 years (I personally believe WQYAshorter), what is there possibly left to do for the players that finished? Do you expect them to keep paying a subscription for repetitive content? I'm not sure what game has this model.

And this gating system I do think can be problem for some people that play them. Wasn't there some guilds on private servers that cleared BWL on the first raid lockout? I may be wrong and I welcome anybody that played on Nost or otherwise to let me know how long guilds took to clear the available content.

Don't know about you, but so many players in current WoW quit when they finish the content, what exactly is the difference this time.

[kamuimac]

I loved the game in Vanilla even a bit into Tbc.
I think they should've kept the game as it was in Vanilla / Tbc but just release patches for bugs / glitches etc and release expansion (content) as time passes.

ye ye ye when we all were young live was just so much better- i too would love to go back to high school/univeristy time as life was amazing and simply so much more fun back then but its not gonna happen - same for youstp living in past its pointless.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Can't really post anything long as I'm in a hurry, but I wanted to thank mods to have renamed the thread to better represent the current topic and move the discussion forward.

EDIT: I'm curious though, does this also include Pristine servers discussion?

[Deleted]

Assuming the pro-legacy crowd want either; to play the game they once played again, OR to get that quick taste of nostalgia (I honestly don't even know) - can you elaborate on how this idea is meant to last long?

It's a good question and one we luckily now have an answer from the Nost experiment. While some people undoubtedly just got a quick nostalgia fix and bailed, over a hundred thousand people (and growing) stuck around and were passionate about the game.

Don't know about you, but so many players in current WoW quit when they finish the content, what exactly is the difference this time.

The content will last much longer. It will take years to progress through all the vanilla + TBC content at their original pacing. While in the current game the leveling content lasts for a few weeks at most, and all the raid tiers can be seen through LFR the night they're released on it.

[Deleted]

to be honest, if they do decide to go for legacy servers, i probally wouldnt play it just because its in the past and its done. i just think its hard for people to let the past go, i understand, but still

[Aleks0410]

to be honest, if they do decide to go for legacy servers, i probally wouldnt play it just because its in the past and its done. i just think its hard for people to let the past go, i understand, but still

I think it's hard for people to let go of the idea that retail WoW is better. "It has to be, it must be"!!

Why should we let go of something we think is better and enjoy more?

[Gsara]

Assuming the pro-legacy crowd want either; to play the game they once played again, OR to get that quick taste of nostalgia (I honestly don't even know) - can you elaborate on how this idea is meant to last long?

It's safe to say the average WoW player in 2016 is no longer a keyboard turner, knows how to play their role, and understands BASIC mechanics. Let's say all three expansions get cleared in 3 years (I personally believe WQYAshorter), what is there possibly left to do for the players that finished? Do you expect them to keep paying a subscription for repetitive content? I'm not sure what game has this model.

And this gating system I do think can be problem for some people that play them. Wasn't there some guilds on private servers that cleared BWL on the first raid lockout? I may be wrong and I welcome anybody that played on Nost or otherwise to let me know how long guilds took to clear the available content.

Don't know about you, but so many players in current WoW quit when they finish the content, what exactly is the difference this time.

Everyone s going to have different opinions about how it should be done of course. Private servers arent new as you probably already know, but the community gets bigger and bigger year after year, Nost is a prime example. Nost was about a year old and started with roughly 2k players on one server. It grew month after month until it got to the point they opened a 2nd server. When it shut down, the pvp server was reaching 15k concurrent players at peak and held 7-8k at all times. The second server, which was pretty new before the closing, was reaching 6-7k prime time and 2500-3k at all times. Thats just one of the hundreds of private servers out there. None were as big as Nost and some were really small but there are a lot of servers out there with the 5-10k player bases.

Whats left to do after its all cleared? Start over or go play something else for awhile, just like people do with current live wow.
I was on my 5th full vanilla play through along with my entire guild when Nost shut down. We've been doing the private server thing for years along with a ton of other guilds. We also play the live servers as well although all of us quit wod. For me and the people I know private servers are like going back and playing old games that we loved, like doing a play through of those old zelda games.

As far as clearing raids goes, its just like live servers. Some will clear it asap others take their time. Top guilds compete with clear speeds as in kill times on bosses. Lets also not bs around by thinking these are blizz coded exactly like original. Depending on server, raid boss tuning varies wildly and one of the things about Nost I didnt care for was weak bosses. This is also why, for me personally anyways, I would prefer blizz legacies and I would wager most players would agree with me.

I along with thousands of other players quit when content is finished, even on private servers. The difference is I can go back and do it all again when I want to do so. With blizzard having legacies Ill have a reason to log in to the servers on a regular basis with either legacies or the current wow. As it is I have no plans to log into the current wow or have a sub active.

[Marston]

It's a good question and one we luckily now have an answer from the Nost experiment. While some people undoubtedly just got a quick nostalgia fix and bailed, over a hundred thousand people (and growing) stuck around and were passionate about the game.

But they still weren't done with the content. I think AQ was either about to open or just opened. And after that Naxx would have come. What after Naxx has released and nothing will come? How long would peopel stick around then, when they know no more content will come? I mean, maybe TBC comes after that. And then Wrath. And then Cata etc. But that's assuming at would be a progression server and not a forever Vanilla server. Which still there is no unanimously decision whether the server should stay in classic forever, a new server later should open for TBC, this server progresses to TBC or something completely different.